First Classic

overdriver

HI All

I'm looking for a cheap, first classic. I was toying with the idea of a cortina, or an MG. Anyone got any advice for m, please?
Thanks
OD

ianobrien

I'd go with a British car for your first classic (Ford, MG, BL) as there is a huge network of specialists in England, so spares won't be a problem (You can buy new Mini & MG Bodyshells!).

I'd go for the non sporting models, as they will not have had such a hard life, and will be cheaper (a good 4 door Escort can be 1000 euro, while a poor 2 door one can be 3000 euro plus!). As well, you could still find a one owner from new car, especially in the non sporting end of things

In addition, when buying, note the following,
1. Buy the classic mags that cover your car of interest (eg Classic Ford for the Cortina) Buy the mags for a while as most of them will have a buying guide section and will also give pointers on what to look for.
2. When looking for the car, take somebody with you, even if they don't know much about cars. They will keep you on the ground when you start to look at the car through rose coloured glasses.
3. Try to find somebody who knows about the model of interest, and arrange for them to give a look at the car of interest. A good place to start on this would be your local car garage, non franchised of course. I mean the type of place where honost advice is given.
4. Budget for repairs!
5. Have a look at running costs, insurance, storage & overnight parking (you don't want it left on the side of the street, where the little buggers can get at it).
6. Unleaded fuel. As most classics were not designed to fun on unleaded, you will have to use additive in the fuel, or get the engine done.

overdriver

Thanks Ian. Sound advice.

corktina

go for a Cortina.....not only are they easy to work on but there are some really friendly people involved in them......(me for instance...:) )

check out www.buysellcortina.co.uk to see what I mean....the back up is there and the clubs too....Internet back up is good and there is a good Irish Club too.....

a really good Mk5 top spec should cost you less than £1000 IF BOUGHT IN UK.....but i reckon go for an early mk4 or earlier model to get cheap tax.....

i have 4 insured including a 3 litre and a 2.8 for less than €400.....:)

corktina

oh and they are cool too......( well my kids say mine are....)

overdriver

I adore Cortina's. MK 111, or a 1600 E, please.

Anyone got one they don't need?

--amadeus--

Have you thought about a classic Merc?

Very practical and easily useable as an everyday classic. Tough and engineered to last forever but mechanically simple enough to be worked on by an amateur. The owner profile means you are unlikely to have one thats been abused and you should be able to sell it on fairly easily. Loads available both here and the UK as well.

overdriver

Actually I did, but the fuel costs can be steep, no? I would convert one with a diesel engine, and run it on veggie oil. That'd suit me fine!

ianobrien

overdriver wrote:

Actually I did, but the fuel costs can be steep, no? I would convert one with a diesel engine, and run it on veggie oil. That'd suit me fine!

I'd avoid that plan. If you get an original classic (ie most of the original parts fitted, engine, gearbox, trim) it would be a bloody crime to start messing with the car like that. That's my view.

By the way, if you want to change engine you'd have to change engine, gearbox, diff, fuel lines & pump and more. Would the brakes & suspension cope with the extra weight? what about the instrumentation? Would you have to fabricate engine mounting, can the engine & gearbox physically fit in the car? If you have to pay somebody to do it, it could get very expensive!

green-blood

or eh buy an original diesel engined merc, just as many out there and use the veggie oil conversion

ianobrien

green-blood wrote:

or eh buy an original diesel engined merc, just as many out there and use the veggie oil conversion

Oh, forgot about that option!

--amadeus--

My 2.5L 250S was grand on fuel - no worse than a modern bigish engined car. The '75 911 with a 2.7L engine gets 20mpg, which isn't bad for a car with that kind of performance. And besides what you save on NCT / Tax / Insurance will pay for any extra fuel you use.

overdriver

green-blood wrote:

or eh buy an original diesel engined merc, just as many out there and use the veggie oil conversion

I haven't seen quite so many of those.

I do want it to be 30 years old, whatever I buy.

elexes

still looking for my capri

cooper_man

Why not go for something smaller. Like a vw beetle or a mini. Parts are easily accessable and bothe cars have MASSIVE irish club support. I have one of each of these cars and I find no problem with cost or support.

green-blood

liar, you have 2 halves of a beeetle, that will never see each other again !!!!!!!!

ds20prefecture

Personally, I don't see the parts thing as such as big deal. For example my DS would have many many specialised bits and legend has it that sourcing parts is "impossible". However, there is in fact nothing that I cannot have delivered to my door within 2 days from a variety of suppliers in the UK, Germany, Holland and France. Buying in Eurozone means you're not being nailed on exchange rates, and the postage tends to be much cheaper. They also tend to invest in online catalogues of parts, which makes things very easy indeed. e.g. www.myparts.org, www.ds-sassen.de

Confining yourself to british makes because of parts availability denies you the choice of the finest, most interesting cars ever made.

For your first classic, why not a nice Fiat Spider, or an Alfa Giulia, or a BMW 2002, or a Citroen GS, or a Renault 4, or a Saab 96. Much more interesting than your common or garden MG, mini, triumph, rover or (perish the thought) Austin.

cooper_man

green-blood wrote:

liar, you have 2 halves of a beeetle, that will never see each other again !!!!!!!!

But it will be a bug for the rest of its life a bug.........gy.:p

overdriver

For your first classic, why not a nice Fiat Spider, or an Alfa Giulia, or a BMW 2002, or a Citroen GS, or a Renault 4, or a Saab 96. Much more interesting than your common or garden MG, mini, triumph, rover or (perish the thought) Austin.

Fiat - I can't be dealing with the reliability issues, or acres of rust.
Renault 4 - my dad had one - good laugh.
Citroen GS or the Saab 99 just dont do it for me, sorry!
BMW 2002's are a bit common or garden too, no?

The Brit cars are the ones I lusted after when I was growing up. The ones I never thought I'd won - Spitfires, esprit's, GT6 etc.

tyney

look, just buy a fiat, a 2 litre mirafiori. get it cheap enough and knock 2 good summers crack out of it. then when the body reaches critical mass just let it have a respectable death.....scrap it for parts. I guarantee you wont lose money. they are so much crack. you know..........the will it wont it start thing, the dodgy electrics, get out of your modern euro/jap box. bring back the uncertainty to your life. buy an italian seventies banger. there will be no surprises. you will expect it to go wrong and you wont be disappointed.

overdriver

Just checked eBay, and there ARE none. They have all been eaten by the Italian rust demons.

Dades

overdriver wrote:

Just checked eBay, and there ARE none. They have all been eaten by the Italian rust demons.

You've still got five days to bid on this FIAT...
(if you ask the vendor nicely to accomodate overseas)

If I didn't have one already (as a first classic) I'd be bidding myself.

breanoh

You could go for an origional R5, R6 (not many left) Corolla, Fiesta (you could get one for €100) The 4L is on my own wish list, but they are fast disappearing. There are also the chevettes, kadettes (I know where there was and prob still is a coupé in co. Clare) Viva, Avenger, hunter, there are loads, that are outside the norm. I have a daily driver R9, but that might be a bit modern, You are bound to find a low mileage bargain somewhere. Try the buy and sell, and look in the normal section aswell as the classics. I found a 1 owner 48,000 mile R6 in the under 500 section a couple of years ago.
Might be an idea?

overdriver

I can't get over the fact it's a Fiat. It's ugly ( sorry) and it's in the uS, which is a bit of a hiccup.

green-blood

I can't be dealing with the reliability issues, or acres of rust.

I reckon if you are serous about pretty much any 30 year old car you are looking at just such potential isues, ruling out FIAT could rule out lot of fun possibles.

overdriver

green-blood wrote:

I can't be dealing with the reliability issues, or acres of rust.

I reckon if you are serous about pretty much any 30 year old car you are looking at just such potential isues, ruling out FIAT could rule out lot of fun possibles.

Agreed, but didn't certain marques suffer more? I'm just not a fan of Fiats, not even the stying. i don't get that feeling I get when I see an MGA or whatever.

Dades

overdriver wrote:

I can't get over the fact it's a Fiat. It's ugly ( sorry) and it's in the uS, which is a bit of a hiccup.

Begone - Satan!

If you're price-conscious, buying from the US could be a cure, not a hiccup. Also US cars tend not to have the same rust issues that all cars over 30 have. Also remember you won't buy a rusty one, so the ones that have rusted already shouldn't bother you.

How about a Lancia Beta?

PaulK_CCI

The Atheist wrote:

Begone - Satan!

If you're price-conscious, buying from the US could be a cure, not a hiccup. Also US cars tend not to have the same rust issues that all cars over 30 have. Also remember you won't buy a rusty one, so the ones that have rusted already shouldn't bother you.

Buying from the US should be considered an option once you have your eyes wide open, and know exactly what the score is, I mean, that 'blue smoke' your Fiat is producing, which you are mentioning in other posts, was that part of the arrangement with the seller ? And what about the extra costs (VAT and Custom Duties), I think most people do not realise the implications of buying from outside the EU union! The price in US dollars may look cheap, but once you add all the costs, it's not going to be hugely cheaper than what you can pick up in Europe, and at least there it's easier to check out and keep a closer control on what's happening!!

I totally aggree about the better condition US Cars tend to be in, BUT, not all cars are from California, and they can be serious rust buckets if they spent all their life in New York or Boston... Biggest problem is you can't check them out first, whereas European cars are easy to check, plus if something goes wrong, you have European law on your side, and it's easier to go after a European Company, than it is to try and get some redress from a US individual...

Finally I also have to aggree with Green-blood, if you're worried about breakdowns and failures, then you should rule out any classic really, as a Fiat isn't neccessarily more or less prone to problems than any other 30-40 year old car...

green-blood

I'm sure we've agreed before??!!

overdriver

Finally I also have to aggree with Green-blood, if you're worried about breakdowns and failures, then you should rule out any classic really, as a Fiat isn't neccessarily more or less prone to problems than any other 30-40 year old car...

That's not really true, is it though? The reviews I've read of 70's Fiats are poor. I don't like many of them anyway. I'm not afraid of breakdowns and failures, but I haven't seen a Fiat that lights my fire. Unfortunate turn of phrase, I know...

Your points on US cars are well-made, however. That doesn't appeal to me at all. I have to say, for my first classic, I don't need the car of my dreams, or a pristine car. I've doen the Mini thing already, for example, so I'll be wanting a new experience. If you can show me a Fiat that isn't ugly, I'll add it to the list!
That Spider....meh! No!

Thanks for all the comments, lads , by the way. Much appreciated.

tyney

What about the beta, wasn't there one parked up on clonard road. He's got to be selling that yoke. last time I saw it it looked like it hadn't been moved in a while.

overdriver

1983 - too young.

its in a bad way now, man. Very sad.

Blue850

There was one of these on the Try and Sell recently for 2700



Fiat 850 Coupe

spidersonmars

My Mother had and 850 coupe a series 2 just like the pictured one. We loved it, the noise was fantastic for such a small car. engine at the back like a 911, no weight over the front wheels so motorways with a crosswind would be fun!!

Get a P6 3500 V8. Easy to get parts, Fun to drive, and the age profile is just right ( early 70's) for classic insurance. :cool:

PaulK_CCI

overdriver wrote:

That's not really true, is it though? The reviews I've read of 70's Fiats are poor. I don't like many of them anyway. I'm not afraid of breakdowns and failures, but I haven't seen a Fiat that lights my fire. Unfortunate turn of phrase, I know...

From my experience in dealing with classics it IS true. When new, admittedly, they were more troublesome than other NEW cars in their day, but now that the competition is also 30-40 years old, they're also prone to the odd hickup. Yes, Fiats, Alfa's and Lancia's do rust more and quicker than say, a Mercedes, but again, at this stage all the cars would be 30-40 years old, so they would need to be excellently preserved or well restored, otherwise you wouldn't consider them. You could come accross totally rotten Mercedes' just as easy as any fiat!

Whether you like them or don't like is a totally different matter. It's down to taste from hereon: if you don't like any of the Fiat's, then ignore the suggestions. Ultimately you have to like what you see, and if the car 'doesn't do it for you', than that's a perfectly acceptible reason for not going for a Fiat. Just don't use the argument of the cars being more troublesome than others, because the British makes are just as renowned (and in my experience MORE renowned) for being unreliable. To people in the know, just mentioning the word "Lucas", brings shivers down their spine...:D

To be honest, Fiat has made some wonderfully entertaining vehicles. The Fiat Spider is together with the Alfa Spider, a cracker of a car to drive! Sooo much more fun than say an MG. The MG feels like a truck/tractor compared to the so much more nimble spiders...

Perhaps a nice Alfa Romeo 1300/1600 Junior, a Lancia Fulvia would do it for you. Also the Peugeot 504 Coupe is a stunningly beautiful car, offering hugely practical driveability. If you want the ultimate on practicality, check out the Volvo 121/131 "Amazon". They are great drivers, offering good parts backup, cheap to run and also a great drive. Once we're talking 'swedes' the Saab 96 or even the 99 is a great car to own and drive.

Dades

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Buying from the US should be considered an option once you have your eyes wide open, and know exactly what the score is, I mean, that 'blue smoke' your Fiat is producing, which you are mentioning in other posts, was that part of the arrangement with the seller ?

Cheeky monkey - I'm still in touch with the vendor. He tells me about the strange items I still find in the nooks & crannies of the car.

If you don't want hassle, you have cash, and can't take a leap of faith then by all means pay over the odds. A mate of mine bought a P1800 last year for circa 4 times what I paid for my bulletproof smoker and that thing's been in the garage more than Jenson Button's Honda. So just hope luck is your friend, either way.

Torq

Hi guys,
My biased choice would be for any of the austin 1100/1300 range, they are an affordable alternative to the mini and sharing most of the mechanicals, there is a vast array of parts available. I'd give a mini a miss in Ireland a they are ridiculously overpriced, if you wanted one, go to the UK.
Next choice would be a saab 99 turbo, 2 door in black, followed by a bmw 2002 but not an automatic or baur convertible (don't like the look of them) and if you had a few quid to spare, it'd have to be a sunbeam tiger.
Keep well.
Torq

overdriver

The 110/ 1300 is nice, but a bit ordinary. I have looked at a Vanden Plas one! It was in bits, though.

Blue850

Austin 1100/1300?? My Uncles had 2, they could teach Fiats how to rust:D

Torq

Blue850 wrote:

Austin 1100/1300?? My Uncles had 2, they could teach Fiats how to rust:D

Yep, plenty of water/rust traps in the design, but there are some really good low mileage ones in the UK. Have a look at ebay item 180009767954, what would you get for that kind of money over here?
Keep well,
Torq.

don't forget that there are loads of badge engineered models about, eg, reilly,vanden plas, MG and of course my favourite the 1300gt. All have varying derees of trim from spartan to walnut and leather and different states of tune.

overdriver

Its cheap as chips alright.