Why are Toyota's so popular in Ireland

vector

Is there some historical reason? Like maybe they were once assembled in Ireland and so seen as being "Irish"

Ernie Ball

They are the most popular cars in the world, largely because of their reputation for bullet-proof reliability.

Since Ireland has no indigenous car manufacturers for people to be loyal to, it makes sense that the most popular car would be the most popular here.

colm_mcm

Nah, nothin to do with being Irish.
They have a very strong dealer network, a very reliable product, and Toyota has a very strong image, as they sponsor all manner of events from the special olympics to GAA to rugby.
Toyota tailor their model ranges to suit Irish tastes too, they sell a 1.6 Avensis for example that's not available in the UK, they also fit the Irish Avensis with different suspension than other markets to cope with our bad roads.

Another factor that seperates us from other European countries is the fact that not as many people have company cars, in the UK a large number of cars are run on fleets, the figure over here is much lower.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

they don't go wrong...

Wishbone Ash

They appear to be much more popular outside Dublin - especially in the Munster area. There is only one Toyota in my estate and it's a company car.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Wishbone Ash wrote:

They appear to be much more popular outside Dublin - especially in the Munster area. There is only one Toyota in my estate and it's a company car.

hmmmmm Munster..... Toyota.

wonder where the connection could be.
heineken is a big seller down here as well.... hehehe

5uspect

Toyota's are literally indestructable (or give the illusion of it). So they make a sound investment. Little maintenance and they hold their value. Kinda like VW Golfs.

BoozyBabe

Well I just bought one & I absolutely love it, everything about it, so I know it's going to be a popular make with me from now on.

Wishbone Ash

5uspect wrote:

Toyota's are literally indestructable (or give the illusion of it). So they make a sound investment. Little maintenance and they hold their value. Kinda like VW Golfs.

But they look so bland and are so boring.

To borrow someone else's phrase "buying a car because it's reliable is like marrying someone because they are punctual!"

Owen

My mother has a 1991 Starlet she won't part with. It now has 45k Miles on it, and still looks like showroom condition. The only maintenance it's needed in all that time apart from oil changes, were a clutch (Hey, she's not the best driver ) and a set of points/plugs. It's bullet proof.

Now the downside. It's the most bland car I've ever been in. Toytota go and spend a fortune designing the exterior of a car, when it's the interior you spend the most time in. Even the most recent cars they've brought out, it's all plasticy. I really wish manufacturers would brighted up the insides of cars a bit more, it is afterall the place most owners see the most of.

smash

because they are the best built cars in the world, they last for years!

Stephen

There's a reason why there's still so many nasty 1991-era corollas and carinas on the road!

maidhc

Simple:

1) Reliable
2) Very competent (especially those fitted with VVTi and D4D engines)
3) Excellent resale value
4) Excellent customer service
5) They being boring is largely a myth generated by the british press. I want to meet the guy who will explain how a 316 or golf 1.4 is somehow more exciting than an avensis or corolla.

ShiverinEskimo

maidhc wrote:

5) They being boring is largely a myth generated by the british press. I want to meet the guy who will explain how a 316 or golf 1.4 is somehow more exciting than an avensis or corolla.

Amen. Anything car worth less than say 60 grand is boring at this stage. Mercs/Beamers/Golfs/Toyotas/Nissans. All popular, all boring.

Ferraris, Bentleys, Aston Martins, all the big manufacturers - not boring.

Affordable cars are boring (except classic minis ) - but you may as well get your money's worth and some reliability and buy a Toyota (and not a classic mini )

5uspect

Wishbone Ash wrote:

But they look so bland and are so boring.

To borrow someone else's phrase "buying a car because it's reliable is like marrying someone because they are punctual!"

If you love your car in the same way that you love your wife then there's something wrong!
Most people buy a car as because they need one, not because they want one that makes them feel all fuzzy inside. The vast majority of car owners own a car out of purely utilitarian necessity. And for this Toyota are right on the money.

I don't own a car as life as a student does not permit such luxurys but if I could scrape enough cash together to afford the protection racket (or insurance if you must) then a toyota would be high on the list of cars that I would buy. If I won the lotto and money and sense weren't an issue then things would change...

Owen

maidhc wrote:

want to meet the guy who will explain how a 316 or golf 1.4 is somehow more exciting than an avensis or corolla.

Queue someone who's never spend any length of time in a Beamer. There's a reason people who drive BMW's find it hard to go to any other marque (Hint : It's not because of the badge). Build quality, handling, rear wheel drive, cabin design, cabin materials, a silent drive at 70mph, and the most advanced technology you can buy (When last did you see Night Vision, or Heads Up Display offered on a Toyota).

The reason journos class cars as exciting or not is dependent on a few things :
Exterior Style
Interior Style & Materials
Handling
Power

It has very little to do with Toyotas school of ethos, where they class Reliability, Boot Space, Soft Ride Quality, and Practicality as design rules. I'm really going to start a flame war now. IMHO, 75% of people who buy Toyotas just couldn't care what they're in. If it says '06 on the front, they're happy. Our car culture in Ireland is extremely primitive.

BrianD3

Stephen wrote:

There's a reason why there's still so many nasty 1991-era corollas and carinas on the road!

Yeah, because so many of them were sold in the first place there's bound to be plenty of survivors!

But I do agree with the points that are being made about reliability, longevity, image and customer service. Resale value is like a self perpetuating thing though - the cars have good resale because they're popular and are popular becasue of their good resale.

Comfort tends to be pretty good in them too. On crap Irish roads they're one of the most comfortable non French makes.

Henry Ford III

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Amen. Anything car worth less than say 60 grand is boring at this stage. Mercs/Beamers/Golfs/Toyotas/Nissans. All popular, all boring.

Ferraris, Bentleys, Aston Martins, all the big manufacturers - not boring.

Affordable cars are boring (except classic minis ) - but you may as well get your money's worth and some reliability and buy a Toyota (and not a classic mini )

Ermmm no.

€40000 will buy you a new car with power, style, handling, and a degree of rarity and exclusivity.

p.s. Toyotas are well made, tough and reliable. Most are devoid of personality however.

Owen

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Amen. Anything car worth less than say 60 grand is boring at this stage. Mercs/Beamers/Golfs/Toyotas/Nissans. All popular, all boring.

Under 60 grand you say? I present the following non boring cars for your perusal :

MINI Cooper S
Golf GTi
Honda Civic Type R
Lexus IS250
BMW 325i
Ariel Atom
BMW Z4

Wishbone Ash

5uspect wrote:

If you love your car in the same way that you love your wife then there's something wrong!
Most people buy a car as because they need one, not because they want one that makes them feel all fuzzy inside. The vast majority of car owners own a car out of purely utilitarian necessity. And for this Toyota are right on the money.QUOTE]


I disagree - many people will list their car, and motoring in general, as their main hobby.

unkel

5uspect wrote:

The vast majority of car owners own a car out of purely utilitarian necessity

Indeed and the only thing they care about in their car is that it doesn't break down and doesn't cost them a fortune come re-sell time

5uspect wrote:

And for this Toyota are right on the money

Absolutely. If I were one of that vast majority and if I were to buy a brand new car with my hard earned money, it surely would be a Toyota

Henry Ford III

5uspect wrote:

...Most people buy a car as because they need one, not because they want one that makes them feel all fuzzy inside. The vast majority of car owners own a car out of purely utilitarian necessity. And for this Toyota are right on the money.

Easily known you don't own a car.

If it was merely a question of providing bland transport Toyota might be the only car maker.

alias no.9

All this stuff about reliability is blown out of all proportion as far as I'm concerned. I've never owned a toyota and I've never owned an unreliable car and the list has included a ford, an opel, a fiat, a nissan and an alfa. If you listened to some of the crap some people spout about toyotas and reliability, I should be breaking down every other day but I've never once had to get a car towed in >>>100k miles in the last 6 1/2 years.

It comes from a time when you crossed your fingers in the morning before turning the key, in the hope that your car would start. Credit to them, Toyota were probably one of the first mainstream brands to crack the starting first time, every time. They set the expectation but everyone else has come up to the mark. Every car starts first time every time these days, in all weather conditions. The way people talk, you'd swear a toyota never even needed to be serviced, they do. Give me a well minded rover or renault or fiat or <insert stereotypical unreliable car> over a neglected toyota any day.

Wishbone Ash

ned78 wrote:

If it says '06 on the front, they're happy. Our car culture in Ireland is extremely primitive.

Hear Hear

Kimbot

Well I went out last year and was looking for a new car!!
I wanted something that was going to last and had a bit of pace in it so I bought a corolla and I must say it was a wise choice!! I service it myself and it hasn't cost me much in a year bar a new clutch and its a great car to drive.

Owen

jonny24ie wrote:

and its a great car to drive.

What exactly about the drive impresses you?

Wishbone Ash

alias no.9 wrote:

All this stuff about reliability is blown out of all proportion as far as I'm concerned. I've never owned a toyota and I've never owned an unreliable car and the list has included a ford, an opel, a fiat, a nissan and an alfa. If you listened to some of the crap some people spout about toyotas and reliability, I should be breaking down every other day but I've never once had to get a car towed in >>>100k miles in the last 6 1/2 years.

It comes from a time when you crossed your fingers in the morning before turning the key, in the hope that your car would start. Credit to them, Toyota were probably one of the first mainstream brands to crack the starting first time, every time. They set the expectation but everyone else has come up to the mark. Every car starts first time every time these days, in all weather conditions. The way people talk, you'd swear a toyota never even needed to be serviced, they do. Give me a well minded rover or renault or fiat or <insert stereotypical unreliable car> over a neglected toyota any day.

Well said. In the 1950s and 1960s Toyota were the first car manufacturer to introduce Quality Control and later Total Quality Management but every maker does that nowadays.

Kimbot

ned78 wrote:

What exactly about the drive impresses you?

Well I'm not the only one to say it about my car (My step dad who drives a Lexus IS200) says the steering is great in my car and even better so than his own and any car he has owned before which were Mazda's, Citreon's and he got a new car every year!!
I just like how the car handles on the roads, how its nippy but not overly so if you get what I mean and the comfort sitting inside it!!

Owen

jonny24ie wrote:

Well I'm not the only one to say it about my car (My step dad who drives a Lexus IS200) says the steering is great in my car and even better so than his own and any car he has owned before which were Mazda's, Citreon's and he got a new car every year!!
I just like how the car handles on the roads, how its nippy but not overly so if you get what I mean and the comfort sitting inside it!!

Without trying to sound like a prick, this is a typical Toyota driver response. You say you like the steering, is it because it's light? Is it because it's direct? Is it able to go from lock to lock in 1.5 turns?

Nippy? Is the handling, or the engine you're describing? And it's comfortable inside. Which unfortunately is all people seem to be after in cars. Generally comfortable means the car couldn't handle if it's life depended on it. Any Toyota I've driven has been like a pogo stick in a corner. Comfortable? Without a doubt. Confidence inspiring? Hardly (BTW, I drive a lot of toyotas, and other cars in my job).

Getting back to my comment about the Irish Car Culture, we as a whole DO consider cars like Toyotas to be nippy. We're conditioned as such. Unfortunately, most other countries would consider the Golf GTi to be nippy. We consider that a performace car, most other countries would consider a BMW 540i/Lotus Exige/etc to be a performance car.

maidhc

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I disagree - many people will list their car, and motoring in general, as their main hobby.

No, thankfully no.

I had two cars so far in my driving career, a Mondeo TD and Focus TDCi, which most will agree handle and drive as well , if not better, than any BMW. So I have an idea how a car can drive.

My parents have an Avensis D4D, and I can assure you it is nothing like as sharp as the Focus, but it is a very very comfortable cruiser. It handles perfectly safely, and while you wont enjoy throwing it into corners, it won't do anything to surprise you in a nasty way either.

It also has a cracking engine, that makes it a nicer car to drive long distances than my grandfathers 2006 1.9 Passat, despite the latter being a much more plush car.

Toyotas are ideal for 99% of the population, and the views of Toyota buyers are just as valid as those who believe life is an F1 circuit.

Kimbot

ned78 wrote:

Without trying to sound like a prick, this is a typical Toyota driver response. You say you like the steering, is it because it's light? Is it because it's direct? Is it able to go from lock to lock in 1.5 turns?

Nippy? Is the handling, or the engine you're describing? And it's comfortable inside. Which unfortunately is all people seem to be after in cars. Generally comfortable means the car couldn't handle if it's life depended on it. Any Toyota I've driven has been like a pogo stick in a corner. Comfortable? Without a doubt. Confidence inspiring? Hardly (BTW, I drive a lot of toyotas, and other cars in my job).

Getting back to my comment about the Irish Car Culture, we as a whole DO consider cars like Toyotas to be nippy. We're conditioned as such. Unfortunately, most other countries would consider the Golf GTi to be nippy. We consider that a performace car, most other countries would consider a BMW 540i/Lotus Exige/etc to be a performance car.

Well TBH it did sound like you are a being a pr!ck, I picked the corolla over many of the cars I could afford to insure which included VW Golf, Polo, Punto's, Ibiza's, Starlet's, Alfa's amongst others because I really like how the car felt while driving it!!
I am big into my cars and my next car hopefully will be either a Toyota Levin or an Integra Type R. The Corolla's steering is responsive and very responsive at that!! From the time I set foot into my car when I was looking at it I wanted it, I drove I would imagine about 10-15 other corolla's and the one I picked stood out from the start, it had more power in it even tho it was the same engine, the steering and brakes were more responsive. The interior isn't the may west looks wise but being able to position the drivers seat up, down, forward, back and have it exactly the way to suit your needs and still maintain its comfortness even on long journeys is great.
As for the nippy aspect the corolla was a big step up from driving a really old micra so yes it is nippy, but not as nippy as the iintegra type R i drive most of the time but from a sensable point of view I was not going from a 1 Litre to a 1.8 litre car so I got something in between so I could learn how to control the power that cars put out evenly rather than kill myself driving an overpowered car with little road experience etc.

semi

I agree this reliability thing is blown out of proportion. Toyotas are very well screwed together - but from the cheapest possible materials. Open the bootlid on a current Avensis saloon and watch as it goes 'boing' up and down on its cheap spring mechanism like a jack-in-the-box. You can bend it with one hand it's so light. I had a (current style) Vectra before the Avensis (both gone now) and in comparison the quality of materials used on the Opel was much higher. But these materials weren't as solidly screwed together as the cheaper ones used in the Avensis... if that makes sense. Toyota make much of their 'best built cars in the world reputation' but when you're on the motorway in a 1.6 Avensis and your ears and the rev counter are telling you that you're in 3rd gear, but your actually in fifth, you realise the slogan refers to a very narrow part of the overall ownsership experience. I really hated that car! The suspension wasn't great, it wasn't particualrly quiet, it was bog slow but the engine loved to rev (not that it made any appreciable difference - you may as well have been in neutral) and when you looked around the Cabin (apart from the dashboard) it was very hard to see where the progress was from an 80's Carina II. A case of successful marketing over substance I think.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Well TBH it did sound like you are a being a pr!ck, I picked the corolla over many of the cars I could afford to insure which included VW Golf, Polo, Punto's, Ibiza's, Starlet's, Alfa's amongst others because I really like how the car felt while driving it!!
I am big into my cars and my next car hopefully will be either a Toyota Levin or an Integra Type R. The Corolla's steering is responsive and very responsive at that!! From the time I set foot into my car when I was looking at it I wanted it, I drove I would imagine about 10-15 other corolla's and the one I picked stood out from the start, it had more power in it even tho it was the same engine, the steering and brakes were more responsive. The interior isn't the may west looks wise but being able to position the drivers seat up, down, forward, back and have it exactly the way to suit your needs and still maintain its comfortness even on long journeys is great.
As for the nippy aspect the corolla was a big step up from driving a really old micra so yes it is nippy, but not as nippy as the iintegra type R i drive most of the time but from a sensable point of view I was not going from a 1 Litre to a 1.8 litre car so I got something in between so I could learn how to control the power that cars put out evenly rather than kill myself driving an overpowered car with little road experience etc.

I don't wish to get involved in an argument here but whilst you obviously enjoy your Corolla I'd like to point out:-

Any Corollas steering and suspension are class avarage at best, and suited to comfort over handling. That probably suits poorly made/maintained Irish road surfaces. They cannot be claimed to be the best handling cars in their class.

All Corolla (and every other manufacturers) 1.4 or whatever engines are the same. Mass produced. Identical. No one is in any way appreciably faster, smoother, nor any more economical. Nippy it isn't. Adequate it is. Ditto comments regarding brakes and steering. They are all the same. Perhaps your car had newer parts?

ShiverinEskimo

ned78 wrote:

Under 60 grand you say? I present the following non boring cars for your perusal :

MINI Cooper S
Golf GTi
Honda Civic Type R
Lexus IS250
BMW 325i
Ariel Atom
BMW Z4

All much higher priced than your bog standard Toyota, and many only more expensive because of a higher spec on the same boring car. You're telling me a 3 series beamer is non-boring? Just cause its a 2.5 instead of a 1.6 or 1.8 doesn't make the car non-boring. Its still a 3 series. Maybe I'd take an M3. But still its nothing overly worth gettin excited about.

IMO a non-boring car is one you don't see too often. 3 series, civic, Mini, Golf..come on they are everywhere and are boring. Just like Toyota. But the Toyota is cheap and as reliable as any of the above.

Kimbot

Henry Ford III wrote:

I don't wish to get involved in an argument here but whilst you obviously enjoy your Corolla I'd like to point out:-

Any Corollas steering and suspension are class avarage at best, and suited to comfort over handling. That probably suits poorly made/maintained Irish road surfaces. They cannot be claimed to be the best handling cars in their class.

All Corolla (and every other manufacturers) 1.4 or whatever engines are the same. Mass produced. Identical. No one is in any way appreciably faster, smoother, nor any more economical. Nippy it isn't. Adequate it is. Ditto comments regarding brakes and steering. They are all the same. Perhaps your car had newer parts?

Ah no argument going on mate!!

Well I had my Corolla on the rolling road for a laugh with a group of others not too long ago as they all thought there was something strange about it!!

It ran out with the following:
102.7BHP
105 Torque

The stats for the corolla out of the factory are:
96/97BHP
95/96Torque

I have standard Brakes in it from its last full service from toyota and nothing newer with the steering its all original parts in the car bar the clutch!!
When I said nippy I meant for its class alright!!

Omnipresence

Henry Ford III wrote:

Ermmm no.

€40000 will buy you a new car with power, style, handling, and a degree of rarity and exclusivity.

p.s. Toyotas are well made, tough and reliable. Most are devoid of personality however.

Yup for a toyota with personality just go for their lexus brand..

The older IS200 is a top favourite car of mine... the newer IS250 hasn't grown on me yet...

Total respect to toyota though, for the average person who just wants a car, not a statement or penis extention then fair play they build the most important feature for these people... reliability..

-A

unkel

maidhc wrote:

a Mondeo TD and Focus TDCi, which most will agree handle and drive as well , if not better, than any BMW. So I have an idea how a car can drive

Both the Focus and the Mondeo are well driving cars. In their class. I don't think I ever saw an owner claim they drive better than any BMW though

Take those pink glasses off now and spit out those magic mushrooms!

knifey_spoonie

ned78 wrote:

Queue someone who's never spend any length of time in a Beamer. There's a reason people who drive BMW's find it hard to go to any other marque (Hint : It's not because of the badge). Build quality, handling, rear wheel drive, cabin design, cabin materials, a silent drive at 70mph, and the most advanced technology you can buy (When last did you see Night Vision, or Heads Up Display offered on a Toyota).

I think you may be forgetting one simple fact that maybe toyota dont fill there cars full of technology, but BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Ah no argument going on mate!!

Well I had my Corolla on the rolling road for a laugh with a group of others not too long ago as they all thought there was something strange about it!!

It ran out with the following:
102.7BHP
105 Torque

The stats for the corolla out of the factory are:
96/97BHP
95/96Torque

I have standard Brakes in it from its last full service from toyota and nothing newer with the steering its all original parts in the car bar the clutch!!
When I said nippy I meant for its class alright!!

I'd ask for a refund from the rolling road. They are always optimistic. Honestly.

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Both the Focus and the Mondeo are well driving cars. In their class. I don't think I ever saw an owner claim they drive better than any BMW though

I'll rephrase, "every bit as good as 99% of the BMWs on Irish Roads"



As for those who say BMW make more technically advanced cars than Toyota?
Don't forget Hybrid. Although it isn't my cup of tea, there is no denying does more to further automotive engineering than HUDs or extra shiny lights.

unkel

knife_fighter wrote:

BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

BMW build the best engines in the world. Tiny engines excluded.

BoozyBabe

jonny24ie wrote:

Well I'm not the only one to say it about my car (My step dad who drives a Lexus IS200) says the steering is great in my car and even better so than his own and any car he has owned before which were Mazda's, Citreon's and he got a new car every year!!
I just like how the car handles on the roads, how its nippy but not overly so if you get what I mean and the comfort sitting inside it!!

I hear ya!!!

I've had a lot of fussy people sit behind the wheel of all my cars, & they've had big faults on all of them.
They got into my Toyota & couldn't fault it:- again steering was mentioned, really has lovely steering, seats are SO comfy, it's a smooth ride, it's quiet, I like how it handles corners, it's pretty nippy, it's just great all round.
It's 4 years old & there's not the slightest rattle from it.
Call me boring, but I love the look of it too.

One fault, & maybe you can tell me if it's just my car:- the radio reception's crap!!! (Now, I'm a long way from Dublin, but compared to other cars, the reception is lousy)

Oh yea, & my one dislike:- when driving on the motorway (which I don't get to do V often), though it's still incredibly quiet, you do get the feeling it needs another gear)

Another question:- how much do you reckon for a new clutch & fitted?
(The wear was done before I got it, promise!!!)

andrew_ireland

3,626,087 Hiace drivin' knackers can't be wrong:)

Kimbot

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'd ask for a refund from the rolling road. They are always optimistic. Honestly.

Well why ask for a refund when the rolling road that it was ran on is the most acurate in the country??

Kimbot

BoozyBabe wrote:

One fault, & maybe you can tell me if it's just my car:- the radio reception's crap!!! (Now, I'm a long way from Dublin, but compared to other cars, the reception is lousy)

Mine is excellent, I drove to Galway/Cork and a few other far out places and was still able to pick up the likes of Spin1038 and FM104 and 98FM!!
I used to go to Longford a lot in it and Spin would only go when I got into the town!! It could be your aerial connection is dirty or a loose connection of some kind.

jtiernan

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Amen. Anything car worth less than say 60 grand is boring at this stage. Mercs/Beamers/Golfs/Toyotas/Nissans. All popular, all boring.

Ferraris, Bentleys, Aston Martins, all the big manufacturers - not boring.

Affordable cars are boring (except classic minis ) - but you may as well get your money's worth and some reliability and buy a Toyota (and not a classic mini )

mate are you seriously putting a beamer in the same category as a nissan etc.

Anan1

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

IMO a non-boring car is one you don't see too often. 3 series, civic, Mini, Golf..come on they are everywhere and are boring. Just like Toyota. But the Toyota is cheap and as reliable as any of the above.

Perhaps you mean boring to look at? We mean boring to drive.

maidhc

Anan1 wrote:

Perhaps you mean boring to look at? We mean boring to drive.

I would have thought both.

TBH any modern car is more or less the same. They are all so brilliant at what they do there just isn't going to be much fun in the driving department unless it is stupidly fast.

Vegeta

Toyota are popular becuse they get the job done.

For those of you who say most modern cars are just as reliable, i have had 6 cars blah blah blah you obviously have not done over 250k in each car so you cant really comment on long term reliability.

My older brother had a focus and it was also solid as a rock and lovely to drive.
My younger brother had a citreon saxo and it fell to pieces.
My third brother had a sir civic and it was an amazing car. It was bomb proof and was incredibly fast for a 1.6

BMWs are one of the blandest car out there, the E30 era are class but nowadays they do nothing for me. I'd buy any new Honda before i'd buy a BMW

Owen

knife_fighter wrote:

I think you may be forgetting one simple fact that maybe toyota dont fill there cars full of technology, but BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

Not anymore. Market reseach said that MINI Customers were very disappointed in the 1.4 lump, so in fact the MINI One D has been discontinued as a product until the new Peugeot/MINI engines are out in December.

Your argument is also flawed in that BMW looked at how many MINI One D's they'd sell, versus the cost of developing a whole engine just for oen model. The price was astronomical, and without merit. The toyota engine was chosen because a) it fit in the engine bay b) initial market research said that diesel drivers weren't worried about driving dynamics, only mpg. When trends shifted, the Toytota engine was exposed for what it was.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Well why ask for a refund when the rolling road that it was ran on is the most acurate in the country??

According to whom?