Leinster Open Hand

MrPillowTalk

Ok quick one,

Final table 5 left Im chip leader or near to it with 360k.

Folded around to me in SB blinds 5/10k

I complete with 69 off suit, the reason I do this is that the BB is a tight player who I have been outplaying most hands for a while and he is shortstacked with about 100k

BB checks

Flop comes 4 T T rainbow

I check
BB bets 30k
Hmm I think to myself, no way that he is strong here the bet is too big at best he has a small pp.

I think I can probably move him off the hand and go all in.

Thoughts?

Hitman Actual

A brave (and risky!) move considering that his bet leaves him with only 7BBs, which is almost a reason for him to be pot-commited. Also, you say you've been outplaying him, which I assume means you've been playing very aggressive against him. If so, he might decide that he's had enough of being pushed around and will call, even with a non-pair hand which he thinks is ahead. After all, he's probably thinking that the flop missed you as well.

So, basically I dont think I'd make your move here.

cardshark202

I don't like the idea of trying to bluff a tight player off a pot when he's shown strength. I would prefer if you raised into him preflop.

MrPillowTalk

hes tight but not a bad player, if I raise pre he would be easily capable of going all in given the recent hand histories, and I dont think his bet shows strength I think it shows weakness. The player is tight enough to fold.

BigDragon

The best move is for the button to fold.

MrPillowTalk

BigDragon wrote:

The best move is for the button to fold.

lol specially when I got QQ

NickyOD

MrPillowTalk wrote:

hes tight but not a bad player, if I raise pre he would be easily capable of going all in given the recent hand histories, and I dont think his bet shows strength I think it shows weakness. The player is tight enough to fold.

Are you sure he's not a bad player? His flop bet makes no sense to me at all no matter what he his holding. My guess would be that he has Q-4.

Ollieboy

If he miss that flop or didnt have a pp, why would he bet the flop? he would be better off checking with a marginal hand and hope to outdrawn you. Otherwise, he must have a Ace and feels he's still ahead, your check raise might get him to laydown his hand, but he's now pot committed, so I think he'll call, even if he only as a small pp or hit the 4, I would let him take the pot and wait for a better chance, you dont have to get involved here.

A raise preflop would have been a better move, to take the pot.

Also, whats the difference in prize money between 5th to 4th and to 3rd, this would also effect his thinking.

fuzzbox

surely if he has an Ace or a PP he shoves preflop?

I think its a risky play, but it could work out.

Gholimoli

i make plays like this all the time and i have to say i think the key to them working is stack sizes.
in this case i dont think he is deep enough to let anything that he would make a bet with go.
he has to call 70 to double up to 200K+ so unless he is a very bad player then
he will make the call.

Ollieboy

fuzzbox wrote:

surely if he has an Ace or a PP he shoves preflop?

I think its a risky play, but it could work out.

It could be a small PP and he now knows that Eoin as miss the flop and happy to push, also, he could have A2 A3 etc and now trying to take the pot down on a poor flop when he know's his ace is ahead. He as bet more than the pot here, ie 30k, so I'm sure the 4 is in his hand and I think he'll have to call, if your going to play aggressive against a shortstack, you've got to do it before the flop in this situation, using your stack to force him out.

Anyway, I think I already heard the outcome of this hand from Dave and Eoin got lucky if I remember correctly?

Norwich Fan Rob

in a blind on blind battle, with an aggressive player in the small blind, i would often trap check with a big pp pre flop, so i cant say we can rule one out for definite.

his 30k bet is bad, if he just wants to pick up the pot, 20k here serves the same purpose as 30k, but gives him more of a chance to get away.
30k, leaves him open to your move, giving him a tricky decision.

His bet does look like he wants u to go away, but i would suggest he most likely has a 4, he doesnt have a 10, or a big ace, a big ace would surely raise pre flop (whilst i wouldnt always raise here with QQ+, i would always raise with AK AQ etc).

I have him on J4, Q4, K4, that sort of hand, nice move, but i dont think he can lay this down, unless he has air, given the stacks, your image etc.
(he could also have air here mind u)

BigDragon

A small bit of info here....the guy struggled to make the 30k bet.

Ollieboy

BigDragon wrote:

A small bit of info here....the guy struggled to make the 30k bet.

So he was trying to look weak and was really strong, that kind of struggle....

so he had the 10?

BigDragon

Ollieboy wrote:

So he was trying to look weak and was really strong, that kind of struggle....

so he had the 10?

No.

He looked like he didnt know what to do. He was not giving an Oscar-winning performance type piece.

I think I was confusing in the last post.

BTW Not trying to hijack MrPT's thread just think it would add to the suspense

ollyk1

I think its got to be slowplayed aces now that Dave has given the game away!!




P.S. Any chance of an update on the weight loss bet for those of us who have sidebets riding on it??

Norwich Fan Rob

surely if he bets 30k into an aggressive player on this flop, he almost never has a ten.
Equally he raises/pushes pre flop with medium pairs or big aces.

that leaves 3 options, any 4, AA/KK, or nothing.

Ollieboy

I dont know anymore, I'm totally confused...... and I know some of you think thats easy to do.

Dave, what happen?

MrPillowTalk

He had AA and made the call, after a good 2 or 3 minutes cursing himself for letting me in in the first place. As said before I just couldnt believe a ten was betting 30k in the pot there Im aggresive but Im not a maniac, even with the AA i think it was a bad bet as I can only possibly call with a ten or outside chance maybe if I hit the four, he should know there is no way I have a pp or big ace as I would have defo raised pre flop.

I didnt get lucky and he raked the pot.

As regards weight loss bets Im not giving any free info to my opponents Dave is keeping worryingly quiet on the shole subject, but I will say this much, I have come to despise rivita.

ollyk1

I don't like the push here Mr PT tbh.

A bad player won't lay the aces or kings down here. He's basically told you that with his 30k bet. He wants you to go away (hence the terrible bet) but he's almost pot committed himself and he may agonise over it but he'll find a call for whatever reason he has to tell himself. I'm absolutely loving a ten here because you've got him and he won't get away no matter what you do.

Sure he played it fairly smelly but that doesn't mean you can take it away from him now. I wouldn't have tried a reraise here against this type of player, in fact I'd really have to rate the guy to try this and my default move would be to not try it here.

As for the weight loss bet I respect your right not to let the competition know the score I was more hoping to see how my "horse" was getting on really A pm would probably be more appropriate. As for the rivita why not try it with some steak and chips and a little pepper sauce to take the blandness of it??

Norwich Fan Rob

i would play AA exactly the same as villian, except i would bet 20k instead of 30k on the flop, against an aggressive well stacked person on the small blind.

MrPillowTalk

I didnt think he had AA KK here I thought he was very weak, and I'd seen him lay down before so I tried to push him off it, there was a considerable money jump every time a player got knocked out. Probably not the best move I ever made but I was in final table mode at that point. Live and learn

Edit: it was his bet that got me,he bets 20k and Im outa there but it just didnt look like he wanted me near the pot.

fuzzbox

MrPillowTalk wrote:

i think it was a bad bet as I can only possibly call with a ten or outside chance maybe if I hit the four

You proved this statement to be totally and utterly incorrect !!!

MrPillowTalk

fuzzbox wrote:

You proved this statement to be totally and utterly incorrect !!!

Yeah but thats why I did it I figured he would have to think Im an idiot to move here without a ten, lol does that make any sense?

ianmc38

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Yeah but thats why I did it I figured he would have to think Im an idiot to move here without a ten, lol does that make any sense?

Perfect sense - he thinks you're an idiot...