K Club employees threaten strike over pay row

ballooba

AKA Unions hold country to ransom again.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/06/25/story264866.html

They should be sacked, the whole country is looking forward to the Ryder Cup and these whingers are trying to ruin it.

Whether their wage claim is legitimate or they are just pure profiteering they should be sacked.

ArthurDent

ballooba wrote:

Whether their wage claim is legitimate or they are just pure profiteering they should be sacked.

Are you serious? You'd be quite happy for them to be sacked, even if 100% in the right, because it interfers with a sporting event? You don't believe people have the right to withdraw their labour?

ballooba

The timing of their claim is what I take issue with not the claim itself.

If they have a problem with their wages they should have sorted it out before now or waited until after the Ryder Cup. Otherwise people might think that they are profiteering.

aidan_walsh

ballooba wrote:

The timing of their claim is what I take issue with not the claim itself.

If they have a problem with their wages they should have sorted it out before now or waited until after the Ryder Cup. Otherwise people might think that they are profiteering.

Or people might think that they are using the high profile nature of the course given the event to highlight their claim, with the hopes that it might speed the resolve of the management to rectify it.

Sleipnir

ballooba wrote:

The timing of their claim is what I take issue with not the claim itself.

If they have a problem with their wages they should have sorted it out before now or waited until after the Ryder Cup. Otherwise people might think that they are profiteering.

I would imagine they have worked like slaves over the past few months. It is special event so maybe they deserve something extra.

Baggly

pfft, the k club will send them packing and hire some other employees who would be more than willing to take the jobs.

cowboy tactics by the union. they aren't being worked like slaves, they are being paid to do a job. and paid quite well when tips are included.

ballooba

aidan_walsh wrote:

Or people might think that they are using the high profile nature of the course given the event to highlight their claim, with the hopes that it might speed the resolve of the management to rectify it.

Don't you mean abusing?

Funny that there has never been any industrial disputes there before now.

Sponge Bob

They are paid **** all balooba , something like €0.50 an hour over the minimum wage which is €0.50 an hour more than I would ever pay you , and even that much is far too much:p

Philistine

The timing of their industrial action couldn't be better ! All strikes are planned to cause maximum disruption. It highlights their case nationally and is an incentive for managment to resolve the problem quickly.

And maybe they have been in discussion with managment regarding pay claims for months ?

And whats wrong with employees profiteering ? Companies do it all the time !

BuffyBot

and paid quite well when tips are included.

Yes, because hotels only run with tippable front-of-house staff.

Baggly

so what? give the back staff a raise, and then the front staff demand one. then the back staff want to be compensated for that. its a situation that happens in every hotel, but these people are, imo, highlighting it because they can hold the k club to the knife because of the ryder cup.

ballooba

Sponge Bob wrote:

They are paid **** all balooba , something like €0.50 an hour over the minimum wage which is €0.50 an hour more than I would ever pay you , and even that much is far too much:p

My boss thinks I'm great.

Anyway, I hope the Labour court rules against acceding to their demands.

johnthesavage

ballooba wrote:

Whether their wage claim is legitimate or they are just pure profiteering they should be sacked.

The workers have said they may take strike action if the K Club refuses to accept the decision of the labour court, what's wrong with that?

ballooba

johnthesavage wrote:

The workers have said they may take strike action if the K Club refuses to accept the decision of the labour court, what's wrong with that?

I wonder what will happen if the Labour Court rules in favour of the employer?

Will the employees vote to accept the ruling or will they strike anyway.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2002/1108/jobs.html

Pity that the K Club doesn't have the option to shut down, but of course the employees know this.

ballooba

Remember when these businesses raised their prices to take advantage of limited choice in the market surrounding a major sporting event? There was uproar. Articles below.

Ireland.com 01-04-04, 12:08
Labour calls on Harney to impose pub price conrol


The Tánaiste has been told by Labour she should introduce price controls in pubs after it emerged prices were raised to co-incide with last weekend's rugby match in Dublin.

The Director of Consumer Affairs published the names of six well-known Dublin city centre pubs which increased their prices especially for the match between Ireland and Scotland at Lansdowne Road.

Ms Carmel Foley underscored her anger at price hikes of up to €1 for a pint of stout, beer and lager in some cases. Ms Foley said her inspectors compared prices on display at a total of 10 licensed premises on Friday of last week, and on Saturday, the day of the Six Nations fixture won by Ireland to secure the Triple Crown.

She reported: "Six out of the 10 premises had increased their prices substantially - with the largest being as much as one euro for a pint of stout in Maguires, Lower Baggot Street.

"While there is no breach of the legislation - once they display the prices they are charging - consumers should be made aware of this practice.

"Customers may also be interested to note the names of the pubs which did not display increased prices.

"I fail to see the justification for such price increases."

The pubs named by the director for displaying raised prices were: Doheny and Nesbitt, Maguires, Larry Murphy's, Waterloo House, the Wellington and the 51. Price increases were on show in those premises for stout, beer and lager. Those displaying no change to normal prices in the survey were: Toners, Searsons, Lansdowne House and the Beggars Bush.

The Labour Party's spokeswoman on consumer issues, Ms Kathleen Lynch, said the Tánaiste should introduce restrictions on pub prices.

"This blatent profiteering is nothing short of exploitation of Irish people and visitors to this country," she said.

"Mary Harney has to the power to ompose a maximum price order on publicans, but chooses not to use it. Instead she advises the public to 'shop around'".

The Lord Mayor of Dublin accused pub landlords of damaging the city's tourism industry.

Mr Royston Brady said: "I fail to see the justification for such price increases."

"It shows that some publicans are intent on lining their pockets - no matter what damage it will do to the city's reputation.

"I would call on Ms Foley to regularly name and shame pubs and restaurants that are giving us a bad reputation as a very expensive destination.

"We cannot allow a small group of greedy publicans to tarnish our reputation as a welcoming city and I would encourage drinkers to shop around and not to accept being ripped off." [/b]

The Irish Times 01.04.2004 Pubs accused of hiking prices for Six Nations



Six pubs in Dublin have been criticised by a consumers' body for allegedly taking advantage of a major rugby match to increase the price of a pint, writes Elaine Edwards.

In a survey conducted by the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs (ODCA) over two nights last weekend, six pubs in the Baggot Street area were found to have increased their prices overnight, in some cases by as much as €1 on a pint of stout.

Thousands of Scotland fans travelled to Dublin for the Six Nations match against Ireland. In six of the 10 bars surveyed, the price of a pint of stout and a number of other drinks had increased on Saturday.

The highest noted increase was in Maguire's pub on Lower Baggot Street, where the inspectors claimed the price of a pint of stout had risen from €3.90 to €4.90.

However, while the director of consumer affairs, Ms Carmel Foley, insisted last night that her inspectors were correct, the owner of the pub said he had not increased his prices by this much and was seeking legal advice on the report.

Mr Ted O'Sullivan told The Irish Times he was prepared to produce till rolls to prove this, although he was reluctant to discuss by how much his pub had increased its prices on Saturday.

In Fitzsimons' Hotel (formerly The Wellington), the price of a pint of stout increased by 50c to €4.50, according to the ODCA.

In both the Waterloo House and The 51, the increase was 40c to €4.50; in Doheny & Nesbitt's the pint went up by 20c to €4.10 and in Larry Murphy's, it increased by 10c to €4.

Ms Foley said the two inspectors had "checked and double checked" the prices on display. At six pubs, they had found one price list on their Friday visit and "a brand new, shiny price list" on Saturday.

She added that her office could only prosecute pubs where they failed to display the statutory 16-item price list.




© The Irish Times

Zombrex

ballooba wrote:

AKA Unions hold country to ransom again.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/06/25/story264866.html

They should be sacked, the whole country is looking forward to the Ryder Cup and these whingers are trying to ruin it.

Whether their wage claim is legitimate or they are just pure profiteering they should be sacked.

Firstly, how are they holding the "whole country" to ransom? I mean it is a bet of a stretch to say that when the bus or train workers go on strike, but the K-Club. A little hysterical no?

Secondly, complaining about one precieved extortion to be replaced by another level extortion is rather silly. Saying that because it is a sporting event that you want to watch the employees should put up with what ever crap working pay they have or all be sacked from their jobs is rather ridiculous. That would be the K-Club and the country (ie you) holding these workers to random just because you like golf.

lostexpectation

ballooba wrote:

Remember when these businesses raised their prices to take advantage of limited choice in the market surrounding a major sporting event? There was uproar. Articles below.

did the staff get anything out of that (apart from unqauntfibly/variable tip increases)

ballooba

lostexpectation wrote:

did the staff get anything out of that (apart from unqauntfibly/variable tip increases)

I think your missing the point, in my above example of businesses profiteering on a sporting event, they were forced to stop. The pubs were forced to back down and this practice ceased.

The unions can't be told to back down because they have the whole country by the balls.

ballooba

Wicknight wrote:

Firstly, how are they holding the "whole country" to ransom? I mean it is a bet of a stretch to say that when the bus or train workers go on strike, but the K-Club. A little hysterical no?

Your forget the millions of euro that this sporting event is going to bring into our economy. Hundreds if not thousands of people are relying on the money that this event is going to bring into the country. Not to mention that if the unions did manage to screw up other peoples hard work that future revenue would be lost because we wouldn't get a second chance.

Wicknight wrote:

Secondly, complaining about one precieved extortion to be replaced by another level extortion is rather silly. Saying that because it is a sporting event that you want to watch the employees should put up with what ever crap working pay they have or all be sacked from their jobs is rather ridiculous. That would be the K-Club and the country (ie you) holding these workers to random just because you like golf.

Who says these staff are being extorted. They are being paid the same wage for the same work. They just want more money to do the same work.

Sure there will be more hours but I'm sure they will be paid pro-rata. Their pay didn't suddenly get crap, why didn't they do something about it 6 months ago?

utopian

Maybe if they go on strike we could get the Army in to serve sandwiches to the golfers and their wives?

super_furry

Good luck to them. If the club refuses to accept the court decision, then by all means they should strike. I for one would be fully behind them.

NewFrockTuesday

Who says these staff are being extorted. They are being paid the same wage for the same work. They just want more money to do the same work.

Sure there will be more hours but I'm sure they will be paid pro-rata. Their pay didn't suddenly get crap, why didn't they do something about it 6 months ago?

Having worked as a chef for a few years, I would wonder if the chefs would be getting more money. In hotels like the K club, the hours can be very long on an everyday basis so having an event along will probably just add a few hours on each day and no extra money.
Im not saying that will hapen but it wouldnt surprise me at all.

Your forget the millions of euro that this sporting event is going to bring into our economy. Hundreds if not thousands of people are relying on the money that this event is going to bring into the country. Not to mention that if the unions did manage to screw up other peoples hard work that future revenue would be lost because we wouldn't get a second chance.

Agreed. But if you are working for a pretty low wage in the first place then I cant see someone being too bothered about how wonderful it will be for everyone else making loads of money off it and not them.

bonkey

ballooba wrote:

Your forget the millions of euro that this sporting event is going to bring into our economy. Hundreds if not thousands of people are relying on the money that this event is going to bring into the country.

And it seems that these guys are basically taking a grievance that they've been left out of the bonanza that their hard work is central to.

How unreasonable....complaining that others make millions off your hard work without you getting anything approaching a fair share.

And why not say they're holding the world to ransom? The Ryder Cup is a big, international business. Or would that by just a bit too hyperbolic, whereas suggesting that its "only" the whole nation of Ireland is reasonable?

Not to mention that if the unions did manage to screw up other peoples hard work that future revenue would be lost because we wouldn't get a second chance.

Indeed.

So if the employers aren't willing to give the workers a fair share of the profits, the workers are sayign they're gonna do their damndest to make sure the employers neither make those profits nor have the opportunity to do so again.

Who says these staff are being extorted. They are being paid the same wage for the same work. They just want more money to do the same work.

But the K Club doesn't make the same money from it. You've just argued that there's a potload more money at stake because its such a big event. If you want to talk about "more money for the same work" thats exactly what teh K get from the Ryder Cup. If the K wasn't making more money from the work, the workers wouldn't be looking for more either.

Sure there will be more hours but I'm sure they will be paid pro-rata.

Well, if you're sure it'll all be fair...I take it all back. Your belief should be good enough for anyone. Who needs facts, eh?

jc

aidan_walsh

ballooba wrote:

Don't you mean abusing?

No. If I had meant abusing, I would have said abusing. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

bonkey

ballooba wrote:

Whether their wage claim is legitimate or they are just pure profiteering they should be sacked.

I cannot believe that you seriously believe someone is profiteering and should be sacked for making a legitimate wage claim.

Maybe your understanding of the word legitimate is different to mine, but seriously....you're saying its acceptable to sack someone for persuing a legitimate claim that you refuse to grant?

So...you're underpaid, you ask to be properly paid, your employer says no, you follow the legal requirements and take them to the labour court.....and should be fired for this?

I guess you don't believe in employee's rights then.

bonkey

ballooba wrote:

Funny that there has never been any industrial disputes there before now.

Funny that you think the employees somehow have the power to determine when the Labour Court should issue its findings.

Zombrex

ballooba wrote:

Your forget the millions of euro that this sporting event is going to bring into our economy. Hundreds if not thousands of people are relying on the money that this event is going to bring into the country.

And ... that still is not the "whole country" .. Ireland has survived 79 years without the Ryder Cup taking place, I'm pretty sure the country would still be here tomorrow if the Ryder Cup never happened.

ballooba wrote:

Who says these staff are being extorted.

No one, what you are suggesting is a form of extortion.

The staff had said "hold on a minute, we have been working for sh*t money for years, now you have one of the biggest sporting events in the world flowing into the K-Club with all the millions that will bring in and you are still paying us sh*t money, this isn't on we are going to complain to the Labour Court."

And because they have done that you think they should be all fired. You think they should put up with the pay, despite being under paid for years and the huge extra flow into the already quite well off K-Club, keep their mouths shut and just be happy not to be fired because you don't want the Ryder Cup to be messed up?

ballooba wrote:

They are being paid the same wage for the same work. They just want more money to do the same work.

And why the feck not. They are the ones that actually make the Ryder Cup happen, they are the ones that are going to actually service the event, they are the ones that everyone will be relying on for the Ryder Cup to run smoothly.

You seem to be working on the assumption that they were being paid well. As far as I can tell they are being paid crap. Now they have a chance to show the K-Club that they actually need them so they better start treating them better. Fair play to them I say. They are the ones that actually do all the work, its about them they got recongised for that.

ballooba wrote:

Their pay didn't suddenly get crap, why didn't they do something about it 6 months ago?

Because this is the first time they have a international sporting event coming. It is a bargaining chip and it is also probably the straw the broke the back. The K-Club need them to be there for the Ryder Cup, so the K-Club better start treating them better.

HelterSkelter

ballooba wrote:

...the whole country is looking forward to the Ryder Cup and these whingers are trying to ruin it..

Ha ha ha, speak for yourself. I'm not looking forward to a load of overpaid muppets with the dress sense of Ned Flanders hitting a little ball around a glorified field with a stick. I couldn't care less if it's cancelled.

ballooba

HelterSkelter wrote:

Ha ha ha, speak for yourself. I'm not looking forward to a load of overpaid muppets with the dress sense of Ned Flanders hitting a little ball around a glorified field with a stick. I couldn't care less if it's cancelled.

Well, people could say that they didn't care less if the business you work for got closed down and you ended up on the dole queue. But that wouldn't be very nice, would it.

Zombrex

ballooba wrote:

Well, people could say that they didn't care less if the business you work for got closed down and you ended up on the dole queue. But that wouldn't be very nice, would it.

Thats a bit of a funny statement considering you are calling for people to get fired.

BTW which businesses are going to close down if the Ryder Cup didn't come here? And how did they not close down all the other years the Ryder Cup didn't come here?

HelterSkelter

ballooba wrote:

Well, people could say that they didn't care less if the business you work for got closed down and you ended up on the dole queue. But that wouldn't be very nice, would it.

And I couldn't care less if they couldn't care less!

ballooba

Wicknight wrote:

Thats a bit of a funny statement considering you are calling for people to get fired.

BTW which businesses are going to close down if the Ryder Cup didn't come here? And how did they not close down all the other years the Ryder Cup didn't come here?

http://www.rydercuphomerental.com for one.

The people working directly for the K-Club are not the only people working on the Ryder Cup. Consider the restaurants, hotels, self catering accomodation, airlines etc. that are relying on this money. The groundspeople working on the beautification of the routes leading into the venue. There is a lot of money being brought into the economy by the people who secured this event.

aidan_walsh

ballooba wrote:

Consider the restaurants, hotels, self catering accomodation, airlines etc. that are relying on this money. The groundspeople working on the beautification of the routes leading into the venue.

None of whom seem to have pay disputes with their employers. Which is good for them, but doesn't help the K-Club staff any.

ballooba

aidan_walsh wrote:

None of whom seem to have pay disputes with their employers. Which is good for them, but doesn't help the K-Club staff any.

Yes, but all those people will lose out if the K Club staff get too greedy.

ArthurDent

Thought this poem was apt

Ethics for Everyman

Throwing a bomb is bad,
Dropping a bomb is good:
Terror, no need to add
Depends on who’s wearing the hood.

Kangaroo courts are wrong;
Specialist courts are right.
Discipline by the strong
Is fair if your collar is white

Company output “soars”
Wages, of course “explode”;
Profits deserve applause
Pay claims the criminal code.

Daily the Church declares
Betting shops are a curse;
Gambling on stocks and shares,
Enlarges the national purse.

Workers are absentees
Businessmen relax;
Different as chalk and cheese.
Social morality
Has a duality –
One for each side of the tracks.

Roger Woddis, New oxford Book of Light Verse.

ArthurDent

ballooba wrote:

Yes, but all those people will lose out if the K Club staff get too greedy.

Balloba - are you saying those greedy waiters and waitresses should not look for a fair pay deal because it might harm people who are advertising their houses for over €10,000 for a week? as per that website you linked.

ballooba

Those people won't get €10,000 for their houses, whatever people might think, Americans are not dumb.

They are not going to pay Pate & Eileen €10,000 to stay in their hideously decorated 3 bedroom semi in Lucan.

People will get fair prices for letting property for the event which will be in the region of that demanded by self-catering accomodation, with of course a slight premium.

I Was actually pointing out a business, which is charging reasonable prices I might add, which would not exist without this event.

pete

ballooba wrote:

I Was actually pointing out a business, which is charging reasonable prices I might add, which would not exist without this event.

and which, coincidentally enough, shares nameservers with your own domain.

Zombrex

ballooba wrote:

http://www.rydercuphomerental.com for one.

The people working directly for the K-Club are not the only people working on the Ryder Cup. Consider the restaurants, hotels, self catering accomodation, airlines etc. that are relying on this money. The groundspeople working on the beautification of the routes leading into the venue. There is a lot of money being brought into the economy by the people who secured this event.

There is a lot of extra money being brought into the economy.

All these people would still have their homes and jobs if the Ryder Cup didn't come to Ireland. There are very very few jobs that have been created just for the Ryder Cup, which is kinda obvious because they would be employed as soon as it is over.

But since you mention it, there is a lot of money being brought into the economy by the staff at the K-Club, so is that not a good reason for the K-Club to actually pay them a decent wage?

ballooba wrote:

I Was actually pointing out a business, which is charging reasonable prices I might add, which would not exist without this event.

And it won't exist a day after the Ryder Cup either. What are the owners (you by any chance) planning to retire?

That is just a bit of money on the side scheme set up by some enterprising person. If the Ryder Cup doesn't go ahead they will probably go back to their day job. They would have to be pretty stupid to be totally relying on that anyway.

ballooba

pete wrote:

and which, coincidentally enough, shares nameservers with your own domain.

Your point being?

If your implying that I am involved with that site then you are mistaken.

ballooba

Wicknight wrote:

But since you mention it, there is a lot of money being brought into the economy by the staff at the K-Club, so is that not a good reason for the K-Club to actually pay them a decent wage?

This is something that keeps cropping up on this thread. It is not the staff of the K Club who brought the Ryder Cup to Ireland. They are salaried employees, they took no risk in setting up that business or running it over the last 15 years.

Zombrex

ballooba wrote:

This is something that keeps cropping up on this thread. It is not the staff of the K Club who brought the Ryder Cup to Ireland.

No, they are just the ones who will actually do everything when it gets here :rolleyes:

Having the Ryder Cup come is a licence to print money. It is hardly a "risk".

pete

ballooba wrote:

Your point being?

If your implying that I am involved with that site then you are mistaken.

A coincidence it is, then.

Rabies

What area do the staff work in?
How much are they paid?

No doubt the K Club will be hiring extra staff for this event. Will the new staff be on the same rate of pay or the expected increase the current established workers are expecting to get?

If workers are on what is deemed an acceptal rate then maybe a bonus system could be arranged based on the quality of the work they do.

The K Club staff are not the only people who have to work at this event. If there was an issuse with money it should have been brought up months ago, not 3 months before the event kicks off and 2 months before the site build starts.

Rabies

Wicknight wrote:

No, they are just the ones who will actually do everything when it gets here :rolleyes:

You couldn't be more wrong with that statement.

mountainyman

Rabies wrote:

The K Club staff are not the only people who have to work at this event. If there was an issuse with money it should have been brought up months ago, not 3 months before the event kicks off and 2 months before the site build starts.

I disagree we are talking about a labour court judgment. The staff are seeking to ensure that the law is enforced. Fair play to them.

Only a fool would wait till the time that suits the employer before negotiating.

Remember people your boss fights the class war every day.

MM

Zombrex

Rabies wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong with that statement.

So you think the upper management of the K-Club will be cleaning the toilets and serving the drinks? Clearing the grounds and providing security?

I'd imagine they will be watching the golf, probably in a comfy chair

Rabies

Wicknight wrote:

So you think the upper management of the K-Club will be cleaning the toilets and serving the drinks? Clearing the grounds and providing security?

I'd imagine they will be watching the golf, probably in a comfy chair

I know the upper management of the K Club will be watching the golf from a nice comfy chair.

The main building and greens will be serviced by nearly all K Club staff.

The larger areas and corporate boxes, marquees, tented village, dining marquees, bars, kitchens, toilets, clearing of all grounds, carparks, security, site build/running/take down will all be done by external contractors.

The stewards at each hole or generaly unpaid, they work because they want to. In return they get free food, alcohol and other little perks.

The general K Club staff will still be doing almost the same amount of hours as a normal week. The only difference will probably be split shifts and contractors brought in to help them with some grounds keeping jobs.

ballooba

Wicknight wrote:

No, they are just the ones who will actually do everything when it gets here :rolleyes:

Yes, that's what they're paid for.

Wicknight wrote:

Having the Ryder Cup come is a licence to print money. It is hardly a "risk".

No but spending millions of euro setting up and developing the club for the fifteen years that the Ryder Cup wasn't there was a risk.

The boyos who round saying things like "the union wouldn't like that" every time they are asked to do something are exactly the type who wouldn't have the ambition or balls to set up something like the K Club.

Hotblack Desiato

Most ridiculous politics thread ever?

Balooba, maybe if these people were paid more than 50c over the minimum wage they might have a bit of spare capital to exercise their "ambition" with?
They have ambition all right, their ambition is to make a decent wage for a decent week's work, put food on the table and hope that, one day, their lives might get a little bit better.

Laughable to say that "the whole island" is looking forward to the Ryder Cup. I'm thoroughly sick of it, so is everyone I know and it's months away yet. I'm boycotting every single product or service which is bombarding us with the likes of "official toilet seat wipes to the Ryder Cup" propaganda.

Sponge Bob

ballooba wrote:

Consider the restaurants, hotels, self catering accomodation, airlines etc. that are relying on this money. The groundspeople working on the beautification of the routes leading into the venue. There is a lot of money being brought into the economy by the people who secured this event.

$18000 to RENT A SEMI

http://www.rydercuphomerental.com/search.php?op=search&PROPERTYTYPE=&PROPERTYPRICE=1000000&PROPERTYBEDROOMS=0

but you approve of this greedy muppetry do you not .

I must bang a house onto that site for €57000 , it will look good