Ireland's multiculturism....

dbnavan

I was on the luas today and when I got to Bus Aras the annoucement said something like "Change here for Airport Express and provinical services" and that was it then it occured to me that in most other countries France, Spain, even America that announcement would have been in at least three different languages, now fair enough English is our mother tongue, and most people here speak English mainly even if its not their mother tongue.

So the question I pose is does Ireland do enough to welcome foreigners into our country, either those who live here or those who visit.....Do we expect them to adapt here or do we try to adapt to them. Imagine a trip to france or spain and getting into a Taxi most Irish people would expect the driver to understand English, and in some cases would get very fustrated if he didnt, but if the shoe was on the other foot, how many Irish Taxi Drivers could speak anything but English.

RuggieBear

Been to italy, france and spain and never had a taxi driver who had any english.

Nor should i expect them to.

Saw nor heard any english in any of the French or Italian train stations i've travelled from.

I think Ireland has an advantage in "welcoming foreigners into our country" in the sense that english is more or less a universal language these days (as in it's quite often non native speakers second language)

We do more than enough by default

Archeron

I think Ireland as a whole could probably do more, but there are encouraging signs such as Polski Herald, Polish radio ads on safety and entitlements and legal/health and safety documents being published in a myriad of languages. As regards the language thing, most of the new arrivals here are eastern europeans or Asian, so it will take a while before those languages begin to soak into our culture. We've never had much exposure to them before, so we are unlikely to know enough of them to feel confident in trying them. Were there a huge number of French or German people here, you would probably hear Irish people use more phrases in foreign languages such as French and German as we've always had more exposure to these languages and would likely be a lot less self conscious of saying the completely wrong thing.

Its promising to see that a lot of people are learning new languages now including Mandarin Chinese and Polish.

Naked Lepper

The rest of the non-english speaking world has to adopt english into their infrastructure because the UK and USA speak it. Simple as that, in the UK and US you dont really see forgien lanugaes or notices, apart from places like So. Cal where spanish would also be a fairly predominant lanuage.

Ruu_Old

Yeah Ive been to Germany and was on a train trip and all the annoucements were in German, I was so confused so it was lucky my wife could understand it otherwise we would have been lost. We would have struggled big time during the entire trip if she hadnt have known any German. I would say we are doing enough. People are just going to have to learn the language, its not just in Ireland its going to have to happen.

DamoKen

dbnavan wrote:

I was on the luas today and when I got to Bus Aras the annoucement said something like "Change here for Airport Express and provinical services" and that was it then it occured to me that in most other countries France, Spain, even America that announcement would have been in at least three different languages, now fair enough English is our mother tongue, and most people here speak English mainly even if its not their mother tongue.

lived in a few countries in Europe, travelled extensively because of work and just for fun around the rest of Europe and can't say I can recall ever hearing an announcement on the trains/buses in any language other than that of the country. Only place I've heard it is on flights. Sometimes buses to and from the airport as well.

dbnavan

Jesus I must be the only one who has heard english annoucments abroad so.

DamoKen

dbnavan wrote:

Jesus I must be the only one who has heard english annoucments abroad so.

maybe you're multilingual and just don't know it?

Trode

Nah, I've heard them, but mostly in places with a high reliance on tourism.

Alessandra

As a student of German living in Germany for a year I feel I can comment on our countrys multiculturism or lack there of. I agree with the op in the fact that in any other airport/trainstation in the world you will here announcements in many languages not just the mother tongue. I frequently use taxis in Germany and although I have a very proficient level of German I often get asked where im from, I will reply Irleland and the taxi driver will automaticall start trying to speak English. He might have very little but he tries! In banks, pubs, restaurants,etc I have these kind of interactions. Train stations have generally fluent english speaking staff. The womwn on the check out in the supermarket say hello and goodbye! It puts us to shame I would love to see some of the staff of bus Eireann/iarnrod Eireann and the like explain the route in french or any other language. I mean English is a common language and all but it wouldn't hurt us to adapt and welcome toursits to our country in their tongue! Cead mile Failte and what not?

New_Departure06

In answer the the opening poster I feel they should be the ones who adapt but that we should help them. Otherwise we have a ghettoised society like France and the trouble it brings. I support citizenship-tests so that newcomers have a basic knowledge of the country, it's culture and its history e.g. 1916. Germany, Holland and Britain have already introduced this and with good reason. I also support the US model of assimilation in the schools e.g. singing national anthem, pledge of allegiance to the flag, raising flag over schools. It is no coincidence that the most cohesive and stable multiethnic society is the US with policies like these. They help engender a sense of "us" rather than "them and us". I think for the advantages e.g. better life immigrants have in Ireland, we are entitled to require responsibilities of them.

delly

dbnavan wrote:

Jesus I must be the only one who has heard english annoucments abroad so.

Only places that I have noticed would be in airports and eurodisney.

bonkey

dbnavan wrote:

Jesus I must be the only one who has heard english annoucments abroad so.

Nope.

Trains in Switzerland which are more likely to have english-speakers on them typically have english announcements. Ditto in the stations.

This would mean anything through the international airports, the other main stations (Zurich, Geneva, Basel, Berne at least) and anything crossing the border.

Up around the alps in the Bernese Oberland (say, Interlaken) you'll also find an amount of Japenese signage, but I haven't heard any Japenese announcements.

Banks, public services, etc. all generally have english-speaking capability, but thats mostly because its taught in school. Unlike what so often seems to be the case in Ireland, that generally emans more than "study for X years then forget and never use again".

I don't know that there's much Ireland should do, to be honest. I don't think any single other language has enough of a presence that it should be officially catered for.

stevenmu

Other countries have english signs and announcements for tourists, not for residents who don't speak the native language.

I'd have thought it would be fairly obvious that people coming here should have to adapt to us, not the other way around. How could we possibly have signs and announcements in all the possible languages and dialects of those who come here. It's completely unfeasible.

fly_agaric

Alessandra wrote:

I frequently use taxis in Germany and although I have a very proficient level of German I often get asked where im from, I will reply Irleland and the taxi driver will automaticall start trying to speak English. He might have very little but he tries! In banks, pubs, restaurants,etc I have these kind of interactions. Train stations have generally fluent english speaking staff. The womwn on the check out in the supermarket say hello and goodbye! It puts us to shame I would love to see some of the staff of bus Eireann/iarnrod Eireann and the like explain the route in french or any other language. I mean English is a common language and all but it wouldn't hurt us to adapt and welcome toursits to our country in their tongue! Cead mile Failte and what not?

But...the reason that happens (randomer in a non-english speaking country making a stab at speaking english to a visiting person who has english as their mother tongue) is because English has become a kind of global language thanks to the US and we ride the wave for free. Makes us take things for granted I suppose.

If you were a tourist in Germany from Latvia say (a small and pretty unimportant country like Ireland), or even from Russia or China (massive, powerful countries) you won't get many of the locals making an effort to speak your own language to you.

Thats not to say that signage, announcements shouldn't be provided in more languages, or some staff at stations etc should not be multilingual for tourists...

EDIT - In E. Germany, I suppose the older randomers may be likely to have more Russian than English...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dbnavan wrote:

I was on the luas today and when I got to Bus Aras the annoucement said something like "Change here for Airport Express and provinical services" and that was it then it occured to me that in most other countries France, Spain, even America that announcement would have been in at least three different languages, now fair enough English is our mother tongue, and most people here speak English mainly even if its not their mother tongue.

So the question I pose is does Ireland do enough to welcome foreigners into our country, either those who live here or those who visit.....Do we expect them to adapt here or do we try to adapt to them. Imagine a trip to france or spain and getting into a Taxi most Irish people would expect the driver to understand English, and in some cases would get very fustrated if he didnt, but if the shoe was on the other foot, how many Irish Taxi Drivers could speak anything but English.

Good Christ, we have to sort out the Gaeilge fundamentalists before we even think about unleashing foreign langauges on the city!

And regarding easiing tourist confusion, I have three words.
Dublin. Bus. Timetables.

bonkey

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

And regarding easiing tourist confusion, I have three words.
Dublin. Bus. Timetables.

I see how the first two are connected....but what do "Dublin" and "Bus" have to do with "Timetables"?

Strange combination of words you have there.

The Sweeper

Amsterdam - Schiphol Airport. You'd never know you were in Holland. Everything's in English.

simu

Eh, tbh, don't go to a foreign country if you can't handle that fact that a different language is spoken there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rules out the entire Med for all the skangers and Antos...

Terry

simu wrote:

Eh, tbh, don't go to a foreign country if you can't handle that fact that a different language is spoken there.

indeed.

or maybe we should all be speaking chinese because 1/5th of the world population speak it.

naked lepper wrote:

The rest of the non-english speaking world has to adopt english into their infrastructure because the UK and USA speak it.

worst arguement ever.

Kernel

I agree with what others have said regarding tourists or immigrants adapting to the country they visit. English is a somewhat universal language in Europe, but in many countries I have been to, if you don't speak the lingo, you will be out of luck with a lot of people. France and Portugal in particular - especially if you wander from the beaten track.

When I'm in either of these countries, I don't expect the locals to speak English. I'm not too bad at French, and have been learning some Portuguese in an effort to communicate better there. If I emigrated to France, Germany, or wherever, I would be a bit of a dick if I expected to get by without learning the language of the country.

InFront

In fairness, English is the spoken language here and Id be very surprised if any vistors or immigrant residents didnt understand and accept this. Nobody ever comes here expecting the natives to learn their language, its not like you get anyone persistently speaking to you in Urdu or Mandarin, etc.

On the other hand, we seem to have a serious lack of resources for foreign tourists. The bus system is extremely difficult to manage with a foreign language, and whilst most bus drivers are pleasant and helpful, there are a considerable few who get very agitated by people who are not or dont appear to be native English speakers:rolleyes: . Luas, Dart, Buses and Trains similarly use English as their only means of communication on electronic signs and information desks. I dont think that I have ever been to another European country where all communication centres, even national stations like Busaras, use only English(unless you include the Irish language of course, big help:D ) and who do not, in my experience, employ foreign speakers. Even poorer Asian countries are more accessible in this regard.

I am not saying that every nationality and language should be individually catered for, but French and Spanish are spoken worldwide, and should at least be coinsidered. Why not??

Saw some English guy getting really annoyed in McDonalds today (shut up, I had no food in the house) because the girl serving didn't speak any English (I live in Spain BTW), and true to the stereotype he just kept raising his voice and making her feel like an idiot. It was so embarrassing and yet it never dawned on him that maybe he was the idiot for going to Spain without a word of Spanish. Nobody speaks a word of English here outside the tourist resorts but he evidently assumed they did. Native English speakers are so used to going wherever and being catered to, they have no idea how it feels to have to attempt the local language and I'm sure most people don't even consider that foreign visitors might not understand the English signs and announcements. I really think the Luas, airport and all that should be multilingual, with all the Chinese, Spanish, Polish etc speakers in Dublin. It would make things easier for everyone, less confusion.

cournioni

Sure we've already changed our original native tongue to welcome the English to Ireland, why do it again?

Terry

Alberto Howling Fork wrote:

Saw some English guy getting really annoyed in McDonalds today (shut up, I had no food in the house) because the girl serving didn't speak any English (I live in Spain BTW), and true to the stereotype he just kept raising his voice and making her feel like an idiot. It was so embarrassing and yet it never dawned on him that maybe he was the idiot for going to Spain without a word of Spanish. Nobody speaks a word of English here outside the tourist resorts but he evidently assumed they did. Native English speakers are so used to going wherever and being catered to, they have no idea how it feels to have to attempt the local language and I'm sure most people don't even consider that foreign visitors might not understand the English signs and announcements. I really think the Luas, airport and all that should be multilingual, with all the Chinese, Spanish, Polish etc speakers in Dublin. It would make things easier for everyone, less confusion.

and that is exactly why anyone coming here for work should have basic english at the very least.

Grem

I dont think Ireland should have to adapt to all the foreigners coming to live here. If i was going to live in a country where English was not the primary language id make sure i learnt the basics of whatever language they spoke.

Travelling recently through Asia i tried to learn hello, thank you, please etc in each country i visited and had a lonely planet guidebook that gave the basics of every language and how to pronounce it.

Ponster

dbnavan wrote:

Jesus I must be the only one who has heard english annoucments abroad so.

Every metro station in Paris and all TGV stations in France broadcast their messages in French and English.

Morlar

I'd say you need some french to get by in france - I have come across french people who will play dumb until you make an effort at french and then magically they have perfect english.

In portugal forget about it - you need some basic lingo unless your in the tourist parts.

Same for spain even in madrid not all places hire staff with english and some taxi drivers dont have a single word of english. Prague on the other hand (probably because its so tourist heavy) most locals have perfect english - not 100% though. If you go 5 miles outside prague less and less people have it and it really is like being in an old communist country again. I would say people coming here to visit need to speak english and not expect to get by on french or any other language. Coming here to live or work - definitely need english. imo.

RuggieBear

Ponster wrote:

Every metro station in Paris and all TGV stations in France broadcast their messages in French and English.

really? i never noticed any english in the metro at all....admitedly i haven't been there in the last 3 years.

CrazyGirl

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Amsterdam - Schiphol Airport. You'd never know you were in Holland. Everything's in English.

cause their language is a mix of english and german