Old Hag Syndrome and Sleep Paralysis

faceman

Following a post i had in After hours, i was wondering if any boards members have or had Old Hag Syndrome and how bad is it/was it for you?

Zillah

I has sleep paralysis before. Luckily I had researched it only a couple months before hand and knew exactly what was going on. Lasted about twenty seconds, very interesting experience, I could see my bedroom, but I could still hear my dream in the background.

I'm sure it would have been horrifying if my brain had conjured images of old witches, or small demons etc.

However, unless someone has an alternate theory, I think sleep paralysis and its associated effects are an open and shut case paranormal-wise.

SkepticOne

Had it once. Probably lasted a few minutes. Depending on your beliefs and cultural background you will tend to conjure up different feelings and images which some may ascribe to paranormal doings to account for the paralysis.

stevenmu

Zillah wrote:

However, unless someone has an alternate theory, I think sleep paralysis and its associated effects are an open and shut case paranormal-wise.

I fail to see how the biological and the paranormal explanations are mutually exclusive.

From what I understand of the biological explanation, there is some form of 'trip-switch' which prevents any motor-cognitive signals being sent to your body. This is to prevent your body from trying to walk around the place while you're dreaming. I'm sure someone else can explain it better, but I think that pretty much sums it up.

The paranormal explanation is that your body wakes up before your 'spirit' has fully returned from it's travels on the astral plane. I personally think that this is somewhat of a misnomer, I don't believe that your spirit ever really leaves your body. I think it's more to do with frequencies and that as you sleep your energies operate on different frequency to your body, and as you wake up they move back into line with your body's again (solas can probably explain it better if she drops by). Either way they amount to pretty much the same thing.

Anyway, if we do accept certain aspects of the paranormal, that there is an energy to us outside of our physical body, then we pretty much have to accept that this energy is capable of interacting with and influencing our brain chemistry and processes. It's not too hard then to imagine the biological 'trip-switch' operating in tandem with the 'spirit leaving body' paranormal aspect.

Zillah

I fail to see how the biological and the paranormal explanations are mutually exclusive.

Because the biological explanation fully explains the phenomena, any paranormal explanation is needlessly shoved on top of it.

To use a metaphor, its a bit like explaining how a car works, and then someone nods and says "Yes I understand. The engine, the fuel, the wheels, it all makes sense, thats why the car works. However, I also think there's a demon inside that is making the car go."

So I can't prove theres no Demons in the car, but everything we know tells us that the theory on how the car works is fine without the need to factor Demons into the equation.

GuanYin

Most
(if not all) of the symptoms have biological explanations. Certainly the paralysis has knock on effects and some sensory processing is effected.

In terms of incubus and succubus, sensory lag explains the "presence in the room" while muscle contraction in the chest/diaphram explains the weight on the chest. These symptoms occur in almost all cases of sleep paralysis and even subjects who know what is happening feel there is an unexplained presence.

This could of course, be a case of heightened awareness.

An interesting aside notes that almost all of the symptoms associated with succubus/incubus have a counterpart symptom in alien abduction.

The theory being that as noone believes in succubus anymore, but many people have the same sensation or experience, an alternative explanation is substituted. The presence is a "Grey" (remarkably like the incubus in physical description) and the weight of the succubus on the chest is replaced by the beam on the chest associated with the abduction.

Not quite sure how the probes connect

Zillah

You're leaving out the most important part: Hypongogic Hallucinations. Essentially the brain keeps dreaming while awake, continuining to manufacture sensory information. Can lead to all sorts of stuff.

So with me and my oh so sceptical brain (and awareness of the phenomena), while I was paralysed I merely kept "hearing" my dream, while the more Christian may see an Angel or Demon, and others may experience Astral Travel or whatever.

faceman

Whats interesting though is that no matter one's religous beliefs or otherwise, the "person" who visits is, in most cases an old woman.

Zillah

faceman wrote:

Whats interesting though is that no matter one's religous beliefs or otherwise, the "person" who visits is, in most cases an old woman.

Would you care to cite your source? Some sort of international survey done by an independent body would be nice.

Failing that I'd suggest that the common perception of an Old Hag visiting is mostly derived from the Western image of the Witch.

EDIT: For example, Wikipedia's entry lists a few ways in which sleep paralysis is interpreted around the world. The most common is a demon or malevolent spirit of some sort. A few of the more interesting ones include the Russian version, where the Spirit of the House punishes you for betrayal of your spouse, middle ages Europe aften had Inccubbi and Succubbi, and in Mexico they believe its the dead.

faceman

Unfortunately I cant dude as it was a utv documentary aired on tv3 about 9 months ago about extreme sleep disorders. Altho reading some sources on the net today, not everyone says its an old lady who visits (altho she is quite common) so disregard my last post!

The victim on the show was an eglish woman of 27 as far as I remember. she had it since she was 20 and would have attacks 2-3 times a week. Her experience was quite vivid and the woman would 'float' across the room (all disfigured n ugly) and sit on her chest. She said sometimes she woke up with marks on her neck.

btw Sheryl Crowe suffers from it.

Zillah

faceman wrote:

The victim on the show was an eglish woman of 27 as far as I remember. she had it since she was 20 and would have attacks 2-3 times a week. Her experience was quite vivid and the woman would 'float' across the room (all disfigured n ugly) and sit on her chest. She said sometimes she woke up with marks on her neck.

Did she ever sleep under controlled circumstances? Like with doctors and brain scanners etc?

EDIT: Or then again, was there no need? Did she believe it was just a sleep disorder?

faceman

Zillah wrote:

Did she ever sleep under controlled circumstances? Like with doctors and brain scanners etc?

EDIT: Or then again, was there no need? Did she believe it was just a sleep disorder?

yeah that was the show's purpose, the scans etc. She was the only one on the show (all other sleep disorders were more "normal", e.g. sleepwalkin etc) that didnt have a happy ending as such.

doctors explained that the syndrome has been around for centuries, its even in older medical texts, altho lets just say early medical records were a bit off the wall!!

...symptoms: old hag, sleep paralysis
...diagnosis: possessed!

Zillah

faceman wrote:

altho lets just say early medical records were a bit off the wall!!

...symptoms: old hag, sleep paralysis
...diagnosis: possessed!

Yeah, completely off the wall

So glad we've moved on

stevenmu

Zillah wrote:

Because the biological explanation fully explains the phenomena, any paranormal explanation is needlessly shoved on top of it.

To use a metaphor, its a bit like explaining how a car works, and then someone nods and says "Yes I understand. The engine, the fuel, the wheels, it all makes sense, thats why the car works. However, I also think there's a demon inside that is making the car go."

So I can't prove theres no Demons in the car, but everything we know tells us that the theory on how the car works is fine without the need to factor Demons into the equation.

A more complete analogy might point out that needs a person (or demon) at the controls to make it doing anything. A
car won't suddenly start driving forward or turn corners without someone telling it what to do.

I should have been a bit clearer with my post really, I was focusing more on a the sleep paralysis process than on the 'old hag' or succubus or whatever. To focus more on that aspect now, why is it that it is so common (nearly universal with reports of sleep paralysis) that a 'presence' is felt ? Why is it that people don't wake up thinking that that a brick, or car, is pinning them down ? Certainly some aspect of what is sensed by the person experiencing it is created by the imagination, but is it all pure hallucination, or is it an attempt by the subconcious to present something that it senses in a context we can comprehend and accept ? I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I think it is a well documented ability of the subconcious to filter information and present our concious mind with something it can deal with.

We also have to wonder what causes people to wake up in this manner. As far as I know it doesn't tend to happen when people are deliberately woken suddenly. There have been lots of studies done involving suddenly waking people, often thos with various sleep disorders, suddenly at various points of sleep which make no mention of sleep paralysis. This isn't so surprising because that's not what they are studying, but I've never seen any mention of them by sceptics debunking sleep paralysis either (I might actually look into this further myelf). The point being that if sleep paralysis was purely the biological processes described it should happen when someone is woken suddenly by someone else or some other external stimuli. As it stands, it seems to only happen to people woken by some stimulus they cannot later find or explain. In my own strongest experience of it, I was having some regular non-threatening dream when I sensed a presence entering the room beside me. I was aware that this was distinct from my dream and that I had to wake up to protect myself, On waking I could still sense the presence to my side but could not move and had the usuall sensation of being pinned down, altough this seemed to be seperate to the presence beside me, I didn't think it was the presence pinning me down.

Zillah

stevenmu wrote:

A more complete analogy might point out that needs a person (or demon) at the controls to make it doing anything. A
car won't suddenly start driving forward or turn corners without someone telling it what to do.

I find myself unable to apply that to the analogy as I used it. Instead of a car we could use a machine that is fully automatic and my point remains completely unchanged.

why is it that it is so common (nearly universal with reports of sleep paralysis) that a 'presence' is felt ? Why is it that people don't wake up thinking that that a brick, or car, is pinning them down ?

My completely personal and unproffessional opinion would be that it comes down to basic human psychology. Its how our brain works; when something happens, the first thing on the checklist is "Is someone doing this to me?"

When you look at a line of bushes you might be able to make out a face. Thats because your brain is automatically running its "recognise face" program. Its trying to identify the intelligence behind what you're experiening. If you feel a sudden pain in your shoulder you automatically assume someone just hit you. Ever seen an animal shot with a tranquiliser dart? They suddenly turn and start snapping at the air.

Then again, we are talking about the brain essentially short circuiting, maybe the part of the brain that recognises "presence" is often activated for no reason other than thats how the brain works.

Certainly some aspect of what is sensed by the person experiencing it is created by the imagination, but is it all pure hallucination, or is it an attempt by the subconcious to present something that it senses in a context we can comprehend and accept ? I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I think it is a well documented ability of the subconcious to filter information and present our concious mind with something it can deal with.

Indeed, the subconcious can filter. It constantly filters your normal senses while asleep. Notice how you can sleep on a bus despite all the noise. However, were you asleep in bed and suddenly you heard a bus, that'd wake you up. Your subconcious is like the night watchman, it lets you know if anything unusual happens.

However, that doesn't mean that something spiritual has woken you up during sleep paralysis. Perhaps its a possibility, but theres no evidence for it.

The point being that if sleep paralysis was purely the biological processes described it should happen when someone is woken suddenly by someone else or some other external stimuli.

You're making the assumption that the biological process (or error, more accurately) isn't the cause of waking up.

Besides, thousands of things can wake you up. You can wake up in the middle of the night if you're too hot, or thirsty, or need to pee, or heard a sound outside that you don't remember. And aside from all those very common things, some people just wake up randomnly for no apparent reason, especially if they're particularily stressed in life in general.

I was aware that this was distinct from my dream and that I had to wake up to protect myself

Don't forget that sleep paralysis is a bit like when a program on a computer crashes. Its quite literally a malfunction. Your brain could still be generating dream sensory input, and you literally cannot trust your perceptions. Its that simple. What a person perceives during sleep disturbances cannot be taken to mean anything about anything.

SkepticOne

The fact that it is a 'presence' we feel as opposed to an inanimate object is a good point imo. I would tend to agree with Zillah that this is down to the way the human mind works. As Aristotle said, we are social animals. In the past people used to believe natural objects such as volcanoes and winds were governerned by supernatural entities. It is simply the way the brain is wired up. The 'scientific' outlook is comparitively recent and even now many people don't fully go along with it.

GuanYin

Zillah wrote:

You're leaving out the most important part: Hypongogic Hallucinations. Essentially the brain keeps dreaming while awake, continuining to manufacture sensory information. Can lead to all sorts of stuff.

So with me and my oh so sceptical brain (and awareness of the phenomena), while I was paralysed I merely kept "hearing" my dream, while the more Christian may see an Angel or Demon, and others may experience Astral Travel or whatever.

The nature of this isn't fully understood nor is it actually confirmed that it occurs in realtime as opposed to retrospectively so I did leave that out.

There are many inconsistancies with this and an example can be seen in the frequent reported instance of people waking from a dream due to an explosion (in the dream) only for their alarm to go off seconds after they wake.

It is not known whether the "dream" occurs in realtime (which opens a further can of worms) or if the memories of the dream are retrospectively added.

(but MIT got a HUGE grant to find out, the bastards)

SkepticOne

On the subject of real time dreams, they did an experiment with lucid dreamers where they asked them to try to fly for what they, in their dream, estimated to be about ten seconds. Apparently, the one part of your body you can move while you are dreaming is the eyes. The lucid dreamers were to signal to the experimenters by moving their eyes from left to right at the beginning and end of their 'flight'. Anyway, it turned out that the interval between signals was roughly what would be expected of someone estimating ten seconds.

Of course this result is only fully valid for lucid dreams. It may be possible with future technology to test normal dreams.

Having said that, I'm sure everyone has had the experience of having the telephone ring while dreaming and somehow incorporating that event into the dream. The mind is capable of manufacturing a context for the dream including events leading up to the telephone call.

GuanYin

SkepticOne wrote:

Having said that, I'm sure everyone has had the experience of having the telephone ring while dreaming and somehow incorporating that event into the dream. The mind is capable of manufacturing a context for the dream including events leading up to the telephone call.

My point is, noone is sure if the context is applied to the dream or the memory of the dream.

Zombrex

SkepticOne wrote:

Having said that, I'm sure everyone has had the experience of having the telephone ring while dreaming and somehow incorporating that event into the dream. The mind is capable of manufacturing a context for the dream including events leading up to the telephone call.

Had a very freaky experience once, was in a car doozing off having a dream about being in a fight in school. In the dream the bully took a swing at me, and just as he hit me (in the dream) the car went over a bump and I smacked my head off the side of the doorframe. I woke up with a start and started freaking out thinking I had been hit. Weird

SkepticOne

psi wrote:

My point is, noone is sure if the context is applied to the dream or the memory of the dream.

I think the distinction is blurred in dreams. While there are some 'real time' events (as suggested by the lucid dream experiment) the mind has the ability to alter context when appropriate.

While the purposes of dreaming are still under debate, I think (and this is speculation) one of the purposes is working through scenarios that may be troubling us unconsciously. For this to appen the mind generates both apperent sensory input and background context. It is all part of the one thing though - the mind generating an apparent 'reality'.

You mention cases of alarms going off minutes after waking of a dream of an explosion. I'm not really dealing with that here. I think that may just be a case of people attaching significance to coincidences. People often wake from dreams. Often they will wake shortly before the alarm goes off. Some of these dreams will be of explosions. Others may even be of alarms going off!

SkepticOne

Wicknight wrote:

Had a very freaky experience once, was in a car doozing off having a dream about being in a fight in school. In the dream the bully took a swing at me, and just as he hit me (in the dream) the car went over a bump and I smacked my head off the side of the doorframe. I woke up with a start and started freaking out thinking I had been hit. Weird

This would be a good example. Your brain generated a context for your sensory input. I think 'context' is better than memory. You didn't 'remember' the fight since it did not happen. The use of the word memory is not fully appropriate, imo, in the context of dreams.

GuanYin

SkepticOne wrote:

I think that may just be a case of people attaching significance to coincidences. People often wake from dreams. Often they will wake shortly before the alarm goes off. Some of these dreams will be of explosions. Others may even be of alarms going off!

Err no, I'm talking about actual research.

Thereis evidence to suggest that memories of dreams are manufactured after the event.

Zombrex

SkepticOne wrote:

This would be a good example. Your brain generated a context for your sensory input. I think 'context' is better than memory. You didn't 'remember' the fight since it did not happen. The use of the word memory is not fully appropriate, imo, in the context of dreams.

Kinda makes you question your "memories" and the reality of the time line as you experience it.

In my dream I was sure that I was going to be hit before I woke up. I saw it coming. But the "time" in which I believed my dream was taking place (seemed like a few seconds) could have been generated miliseconds after I was hit by the car frame.

Suppose it is like deja vu (sp?) where you know something has happened before but in reality it hasn't. Or a dream you feel takes hours but when you wake up you realise you have only been asleep for 5 minutes.

I agree with the coincidence bit, if you think about the average persons life, they send a 1/3 of it asleep, over the course of the life there are bound to be times when you are dreaming about your alarm clock going off and you wake up to it going off. I suppose its also possible that you dream about a lot of things, and after you wake up your mind re-arranges things to put significance to the event that woke you up. For all I know I dreamed about being hit and what happened afterwards, but when I was woken up, my mind re-arranged the event with significance on the hit.

The mind is a weird thing.

(btw the paranormal explination of these events has been pretty much abandoned, so maybe moving this to a science forum would be an idea)

6th

I dont know if they've been abandoned or not?

I Have only ever had sleep paralysis a couple of times but on one occassion i dont believe this is what was happening at all.

I was working at a holiday camp in Cork and woke up when i felt my mouth being force open. I could move a little but it was really difficult as i felt someone was sitting on my chest with their knees holding my arms down. As i said i could struggle and feel the resistance. I could see, hear and feel a figure on me with their hands on my face, at my mouth.
The thing is i could taste their fingers and they were close to my face, so close i could smell his breath.
Somehow i knew taht it couldnt actually hurt me (or i convinced myself it couldnt) and tried to relax, i prayed but only when i started to pray out loud (which i could now do, having not tried screaming i dont know if i could). I felt the figure pass down through me and through the bed, feeling the release as it left. I was awake but lay there for a while after about 10 minutes i got up and went out side to get some air. I didnt fall back asleep that night and told no one about it.

Zombrex

6th wrote:

I was working at a holiday camp in Cork and woke up when i felt my mouth being force open.

It certainly sounds very scary. There is a condition known as sleep paralaysis. When you are in REM sleep (rapid eye movement, not the band) your brain temporailiy paralaysises you, to stop you acting out your dreams. Sometimes people wake up still in that state, and find they can't move. That could explain why you felt like you couldn't move, but it wouldn't really explain the other experiences, such as the sensation of bad breath, or the sound of someone moving over you.

I suppose the obvious question is are you sure someone wasn't actually assaulting you in your sleep?

sparky360

I get this sleep paralysis at least 3 or 4 times a week. It only lasts about 4 mins at a time. This has been happening for about 8 months now (if not longer) At the start, it was terrifying but I have grown used to it now

6th

Obvius question? wow what sort of place do you think this was? lol

Anyway I was well within my senses despite being very scared. This was 11 years ago and to be honest it being an actually assult by a person isnt an option. It was a building with 11 rooms (all on one floor) and a toilet. There was me in one room and the other rooms had up to 4 (8-15 year olds) in each. I saw this figure quite well despite the darkness.

On a side note i do get that sudden jump, where you feel like you're falling, a couple of t imes a night - every night.

Zombrex

6th wrote:

Obvius question? wow what sort of place do you think this was? lol

Sorry, holiday camp in Cork stirs imagines akin to Friday 13th movie

6th wrote:

I saw this figure quite well despite the darkness.

I often wake up in the night convinced that someone is in my room, when I turn on the light it is just a shape made of old clothes or something. The weird thing is when it is dark I believe I can actually see the shape moving, and I have often gone to myself "It nothing, just the dark, wait no its moving, its walking around". I can actually see movement.

These visions used to be scary, but now they normally take on the form of a naked woman or women (sexually frustrated? Me? Never! )

But none of that wouldn't explain why you felt something, and smelt the bad breath, or the feeling that they fell through you into the bed.

Certain sounds weird.

What do you think it was? Did you have any feeling that it was someone you knew? Did anything else strange happen to others in the camp?

6th

If it ahd been a figure across the room, fine i would dismiss it but it was on top of me so no chance it was a pile of clothes or a sports bag. I'm the same in taht i've seen things in the dark and on inspection they are just shapesand my imagineation.

It was not someone i knew and i dont believe in demons, elementals etc - it was the spirit of a person, a nasty predator. I've only ahd a couple of negative experiences but this was the most extreme.

Glad to have people ask about it and pick at it abit as it makes me rethink it and confirms alot for me.

Nevyn

and what makes you sure that it was the spirit of a person and not anything else esp if it was a nasty predator ?

Zombrex

6th wrote:

Glad to have people ask about it and pick at it abit as it makes me rethink it and confirms alot for me.

What ever it was it sounds horrible 6th, I hope it doesn't happen to you again

6th

Thaedydal wrote:

and what makes you sure that it was the spirit of a person and not anything else esp if it was a nasty predator ?

cos i've dealt with very nasty people before so experience makes me believe it was a person. There are horrible, evil people in real life so theres no reason for me to make a jump to think it was anything else i.e. Demon etc.

Also from what i saw and left of this figure it was a "person".

6th

Wicknight wrote:

What ever it was it sounds horrible 6th, I hope it doesn't happen to you again

It wont be happening again, i was an easy target and these things in my opinion go for those they believe they can affect the most. As some who've been in Charleville might agree.

Zillah

6th wrote:

I was working at a holiday camp in Cork and <snip>

That seems like a classic case of sleep paralysis with accompanying halucinations. Did you not find it a bit strange that you were able to "relax", knowing that it couldn't hurt you?

Do you really think that if you were suddenly assulted in bed by a malevolent spirit that you'd be able to just relax and wait for it to end?

And if it you are convinced it was a genuine encounter, doesn't it seem awfully convenient that it perfectly resembles a well known and documented phenomenon? While I have no doubt it was a horrible experience and I empathise (I had night terrors when I was younger), step back and take another look at this given what we know about sleep paralysis. I know you're fairly sceptical most of the time.

Edited for politeness

6th

Hey Zillah, I'm usually not the one to jump down your throat but your post comes across as patronising. Its also seems to be telling me what happened instead of you putting it across as your opinion - against the charter me thinks?

Anyway i've had 11 years to think about it and play it through in my head ... 11 years ago, you were in primery school right Its nice that your reading up on things like sleep paralysis but give it a few years of personal experience so you can back up what you read in a book.

Does Hallucination normally come with taste and smell? Also i was awake and stayed awake. Also i could relax as by that stage i had been through alot worse in my life and had been experiencing spirits for more than a decade. I dont frighten easy, not a macho thing just sometimes i realise panicking will get you know where.

Now go go back to states which start "I believe" or "In my opinion"

Zillah

6th wrote:

Hey Zillah, I'm usually not the one to jump down your throat but your post comes across as patronising. Its also seems to be telling me what happened instead of you putting it across as your opinion - against the charter me thinks?

If you don't want to continue along this line of discussion then say so. And I don't think I was telling you what happened, I was just putting it in the context of what we know about sleep paralysis.

Its nice that your reading up on things like sleep paralysis but give it a few years of personal experience so you can back up what you read in a book.

Ad hominem. Dismissing my apparent lack of experience does not invaildate what I'm saying. Your experience perfectly conforms with what would be expected from Sleep Paralysis. And that is the topic at hand.

Does Hallucination normally come with taste and smell?

Hallucination is internally generated sensory input, so yes, you can hallucinate anything you could normally perceive. I don't know if Hypnogogic Hallucinations are known for producing more than sight and sound but it doesn't strike me as impossible.

Also i was awake and stayed awake.

Well, "sleep paralysis" is a bit of a misleading title actually. It occurs as you wake up. You don't fall back asleep afterwards, you wake up fully, so yes, you'd find yourself waking up to paralysis and possible hallucinations, and then the episode would fade and you'd be properly awake.

Also i could relax as by that stage i had been through alot worse in my life and had been experiencing spirits for more than a decade. I dont frighten easy, not a macho thing just sometimes i realise panicking will get you know where.

Alright then.

Now go go back to states which start "I believe" or "In my opinion"

Well, the only statement I made in my last post was "Thats a classic case of sleep paralysis with accompanying halucinations!". I'll put the word "seems like" in there, is that better?

Although this line of discussion appears to be upsetting you, so I'll leave the question of whether this continues or not in your hands.

6th

I'm find discussing at as longa sthat is what it is, a discussion. Its not upsetting me at all, i'm pretty sure i'm not the type to upset easy?

Anyway i've read a fair few accounts from people who've had what can be discribed as sleep paralysis and i dont think waht i experienced is typical at all (though maybe everyone says that?). Sure being pinned down by a dark figure, unable to move though you struggle, unable to scream but as i said mine was different in that when i did try make a sound i could (the praying out loud) also the taste of the figures fingers in my mouth along with the smell of its breath. I could also make out the facial features of the figure quite well (i may draw it later and post it). This along with the passing of the figure through me and into the bed, the bed then sprung back (not sure how to explain it exactly) but it was likey a very heavey weight had be suddenly lifted from the bed.
If i had only ever had this experience in my life maybe i could say it was just SP but having experienced spirits a fair bit in my life, including interacting with them, I knew this was more than just amisfire in my brain.

As i also said i have had sleep paralysis before and know the difference i feel, of course it was a very subjective experience and i understand that. People cant really understand that which they havent gone through themselves.

I only offered up my experience when it was commented that the thread had abandoned all paranormal claims on this phenomenom. I just dont want people feeling they cant express feelings regarding what may very well be a paranormal experience.

Zillah

6th wrote:

I only offered up my experience when it was commented that the thread had abandoned all paranormal claims on this phenomenom. I just dont want people feeling they cant express feelings regarding what may very well be a paranormal experience.

That I can understand very well, it was a bit innappropriate to declare the paranormal aspect ruled out. Personally I think your experience was probably Sleep Paralysis, after all, hallucinations are by their nature convincing, but its not really an issue we can usefully explore much further aside from "yes!", "no!", and "charter" this and "banning" that

6th

Thats fine i can accept that as your opinion, either way i dont want to experience anything like it again anytime soon.

Pink Bunny

faceman wrote:

Following a post i had in After hours, i was wondering if any boards members have or had Old Hag Syndrome and how bad is it/was it for you?

I've suffered with this for years.

I've never seen a woman or anyone for that matter. But the feeling that someone or something evil is in the room with me is very strong and is extremely terrifying.

It starts out with me hearing a “snap” sound and I “wake up” only I can't wake completely. I can't move and can't open my eyes yet I know I need to in order to protect myself.

The occurrence is so common now that I know what is going on and yet I am helpless to do anything about it. I often have the distinct feeling that I am outside of my body and that if I don't “wake up” I won't be able to get back inside myself and therefore I will die. Praying to wake up has helped along with willing myself awake.

There is a very real feeling of pain in my chest as I force my “life force” (for lack of a better term) back in. I don't feel as if I'm outside myself looking down, the only way I can describe it is that physically it feels as if I am on the bottom of the ocean looking up with the weight of the water on top of me. It's like I need to make my way to the surface of the water in order to wake up and in doing so upon waking there is a pain I feel at the instance of the spirit/body connection when I completely wake up. If that makes sense.
I'm not saying there isn't a medical explaination for this-anything can be explained away-just these are the feelings I have as I experience this.

It's extremely hard to describe and it would take pages to go into detail about everything that happens and since no one on boards knows me my posts tend to get skipped over anyway so I've tried to be as brief as I can.

Zillah

Just be caustic and controvertial and you'll never be overlooked


If you have trouble shaking off the sensation, try making a jerking motion. I found that that snapped me right out of it. If you strain and pull etc its not sudden enough. If you managed to jerk quickly and suddenly it might be enough to make your brain go "Uh oh, somethings happening, better wake up!"

Saruman

Have had Sleep Paralysis loads of times.. well not in a long time though. I used to be a light sleeper. I never saw anything crazy but i was never scared. Even before i knew Sleep Paralysis was a normal part of sleeping and happens to some people. In the past causing people to believe devils and demons where sitting on their bed and more recently aliens etc.

Just remember... even though you seem to be awake.... you are still dreaming! Whatever you can imagine will seem real when in "Sleep Paralysis". This is NORMAL and there is nothing paranormal about it.

Not any more though.. i took 5HTP for a while which regulated my sleep paterns. Have not taken it in about 2 years but i sleep like a log these days. Down side is i do not remember my dreams any more... they used to be fun

Oh and if you want to be rid.. you can try the 5htp thing.. though be aware its a natural product and certain people will always have a reaction to certain plant extracts. If you have any side effects.. stop taking it and try something simpler like Valarian root etc. OR even better.. a glass of red wine before bed Also someone mentioned you cant get it in health shops any more... not sure...

6th

Pink Bunny wrote:

since no one on boards knows me my posts tend to get skipped over anyway so I've tried to be as brief as I can.

Ah dont be like that, very few of us here have actually met, we just know each other from on here. So your one of us just as much as anyone else - there's no "in crowd"

stevenmu

Zillah wrote:

My completely personal and unproffessional opinion would be that it comes down to basic human psychology. Its how our brain works; when something happens, the first thing on the checklist is "Is someone doing this to me?"
...

I can't really disagree with anything you said (in the whole post, I just quoted a little because it was quiet long), it's all very logical and reasonable.

Something I can add though is that many people who engage in astral projection report seeing or percieving what they generally call a 'negative entity' when they return to their bodies. Setting aside whether astral projection is anything paranormal or if it's also just a product of the imagination, this is a very similar symptom experienced in slightly similar but also quite different circumstances. The main difference being that astral projection happens during completely normal brain function when people take concious control of their dream state, it is often when they make a concious decision to end their dream and wake in full conciousness that they percieve such entities. Also interesting is that they often percieve them in a lot of detail, and that the entities often seem to to actually 'leave', through a window, door, wall etc as opposed to just fading away which seems to be common with sleep paralysis. The Negative Entity forum at MysticWeb has some good stories related by people who've experienced them (altough I can't seem to find any of the good ones at the moment, a lot of the ones there now seem to be very fluffy).

Pink Bunny wrote:

and since no one on boards knows me my posts tend to get skipped over anyway so I've tried to be as brief as I can.

Sorry PB, I have read some of your posts before but they tended to always be kind of line with other posts in the thread so I never really replied to them before. Like 6th said there's no real 'in crowd', some of us who've been here a while will joke around with each other, but only because we've some idea how far we can push each other (and the mods) which takes a bit of time to get right, especially online. If you like I could make a point of taking the p*ss out of your next post as a kind of belated 'welcome to the forum'

Pink Bunny

Thanks for the suggestion Zillah, but my body is paralyzed during these so making a jerking motion to wake me up won't help.

Saruman- yes my mind tellls me it's normal, but it sure feels spooky when it happens. The funny thing is I have had some not so easily explained events in my life during my waking state but they never made me as terrified as these dreams.

6th and stevenmu- thanks for your comments . I hadn't meant to come across that way, I was kinda surprised anybody really did read all the way thru my post to even notice that last part TBH. And thanks, but I'll pass on the piss take, I'm just as happy to keep under radar.

Nevyn

If you can work your engery or life force back into yourslef why not look at using it to repel the negative engery ?

How are you emotionally when this happens ?

Pink Bunny

I guess I just use all my energy to get back into my body or wake up (whichever explanation fits).

It's really kind of complicated and hard to explain in a condensed manner, but while this is happening I actually believe I'm awake. In fact in some cases I've thrown myself out of bed , crawled across the floor feeling the hardness of the floor underneath, the contrast of the carpet as I enter the hall etc... only to “wake up” still laying in bed where I've been all along. Other times I'm paralyzed in bed unable to open my eyes, so it can take a couple forms. But the common factors are that I'm unable to see and even the times where I think I'm moving there's still something that keeps me trapped. I am just motivated by the need to escape my room and the “presence” that is there watching me.

Because this has happened so often a part of me has come to recognize that although I think I'm fully awake I'm not and so the goal is to wake up/ get back inside my body. That's the difficult part and like I said before, it is physically painful to do.

Pink Bunny

On a side note, this has only ever happend to me when I take a nap, never during the nighttime sleep. Also it's usually when I'm home alone. So because I have narrowed it down to these times I just avoid napping and can thereby avoid it's occurance.

Oryx

Ive prob posted before about this stuff, Ive had it happen too, but never feels like Im being pinned down, I just cant move. And the presence is male, a kind of sandman figure. But otherwise very similar. My sister in law experienced the very same thing in our house too.

The_Minister

I felt no presence, but I could not move and my chest felt constricted. It was like someone had wrapped lead around my hands.