Ninjutsu training -- learn how to disable an opponent using only flour!

Dave!

I just uploaded a few clips from a video I downloaded called 'Hatsumi Masaaki - Ninjutsu Training'. I don't personally speak the lingo, but perhaps one of you can tell me what exactly is in those egg shells...! Whatever it is, it's only lethal when thrown in the direction of a bad-guy. Good-guys can inhale it no problem!

Take a look here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUbVREVG7PE

BTW, when in doubt, do a tumble and lie in the nearest patch of long grass

Black Swan

Flour? Saw a guy in a televised US Open use flour in his "creative" forms competition a couple of years ago. When striking hands or feet, there would be a slight poof showing the contact. He took first place.

ninjaburr

I think you are soppoused to add egg and milk and dip your opponent in hot oil so you can tell your mates you battered him.

ninjaburr

well actually the powder is soppoused to represent poison to disable your opponent or blind him.Some ninja styles train with the powder hidden in the shaft of kife or sword.

Dave!

I see! Yer man, the ninja, inhaled a load of the stuff himself, though!

And what was the purpose of the tumbling?

yomchi

DaveMcG wrote:

I see! Yer man, the ninja, inhaled a load of the stuff himself, though!

And what was the purpose of the tumbling?

Do you know anything?

When you inhale the magic dust by accident it makes your legs completely useless, hence you have to roll other wise you will melt into the grass. If you walk through St Anne's park on a summer day you might be lucky enough to see some ninja's lurking in the tall grass... or are they doggers..

ninjaburr

Maybe it like LSD or acid man. That would explain the rolling around in the grass....probibly dropped the keys to the UFO or something.

ninjawitatitude

Hey all,
The contents of the eggshells would be, usually, a mixture of lime and other noxious substances, to incapacitate the attacker long enough to escape. In this case though it would have been flour. Even infallible ninja masters have to practise from time to time.
I'm lead to beleive the tumbling has something to evasion/escape (something to do with minimising profile while the oppponent is barely able to see, thereby disguising his escape route, not exaclty sure.) which the ninja saw as much a victory as defeating an opponent.
So there you have it. By the way, that's all I know about this particular subject so I wont be answering questions.

damo

Apart from the vicious flour throwing are those the kind of techniques practiced in ninjitsu generally?

stevejazzx

DaveMcG wrote:

I see! Yer man, the ninja, inhaled a load of the stuff himself, though!

And what was the purpose of the tumbling?

Ninjitsu is art, part the art is illusion, when the apponent recovers form his attack white powder the ninja has 'vanished' or given the illusion of such thus creating the idea of mastery in his apponents eyes so his apponent respects and fears him more.

pearsquasher

Perhaps I can help shed some light on the clip (pun intended).

Consider these things when you watch old clips of Dr. Hatsumi's art and remember it's easy to poke fun when you don't understand, which is why i completely ignore the thousands of clips of martial arts i have no experience of that are out there.

- Dr Hatsumi presents his art to the public, through the various phases that it has been around as "Bujinkan", in a purposefully theatrical way. This is for several reasons..

Firstly and especially early on when it was totally unknown in world made mostly of sports arts - it "sells" it to whoever watches it. It captures the imagination and fires off a sense of interest in some people. He decided the world should know about it and so presented it in an interesting manner. The Japanese have a term for outward appearence "omote" and these presentations - demos, tv spots, books etc.. are "omote". The inner or whats-actually-going on or "ura" dimension to what he's doing can only be felt man-to-man, in person. Hence the whole nature of Ryuha, student teacher relationships, transmission-through-traditon nature of Classical Japanese Martial Arts. It really is a doing thing...and i keep on saying that.


Secondly - the nature of Hatsumi's art is such that it often uses hidden methods, strategies and tactics to achieve its purpose - to protect/survive against hostility/adversity. By its very nature, video fails to capture these things to the satisfaction of the scientific mind and so I feel Hatsumi really doesn't bother trying to any great degree to provide be-all-and-end-all video documentation of what he's doing. He sort of plays with what the media wants to hear and lets the potentially serious students sift through the "omote" or outward appearnece of what he's doing to reach the ura and train with him in person.. which is what all Bujinkan members are encouraged somewhat to do.

I've been there when Dr Hatsumi has gone from Ura to Omote in his presentation of the art due to the presence of photographers and it's quite interesting. Apparently he majored in theatrical studies in college and so is well versed with the art of media and its something that he has used quite succesfully to get his main objective across - to let people experience the art he has learned himself and create their own natural movement. There was a Sunday Times interview artical one time on the Day in the Life of "the last ninja" and sure enough it contained the usual "ninajesque" stuff and it's clearly, to me anyway , because the guy knows that the ura stuff just doesn't sell newspapers or particularily promote his art.. so he just goes with what the excited journalist wants and highlights the fancy stuff but i think he does sprinkle it with between the lines meaningfullness. That video clips has tons of meaningfull elements to it -i knwo because i've trained man-to-man with people who know whats going on o\in it, but do you have the eyes to see it? I'm not being cocky but its just a fact that i've done similar stuff and felt whats going on.

So the clips you see are indeed over the top and full of comical acrobatics but, from experience and chats with other Bujinkan members, its all pretty much engineered that way for public consumption.

I am aware you might think it all sounds very dubious but it's worth asking does it not make a hell of a lot of sense. I think that it's rather quite clever really. Here's the thing....if you don't see any potential in any clips he presents, then you won't bother him about it and everyones a winner. But if you do see something meaningfull, and wish to explore further, then the clip's job is done and it will be left behind for the likes of me to explain, very poorly, whats actually going on.

Roper

Kinda like highlight reels for MMA that show flying triangles and high kick KOs then Pearsquasher?

Still looks a bit mad to me though. Still, maybe I'm using the wrong kind of flour....

pearsquasher

Not so sure about that. Old promotional Ninjutsu demo's, like the one linked to, are really just that and definitely don't really have a "highlight" or "best-of" inclination but serve to show something "interesting" and different to the audience targeted, as I mentioned.

The Bujinkan guys did a more recent demo last year for a general public audience as part of a town festival in Japan and it was filmed and included lots of pleasing "ninja" stuff, as well as dramatic "samurai" action. It's quite different to what training is like as it's obviously choreographed and has a theatrical quality that pleases the senses.....you know, for kids. If you're in the Bujinkan a while it's apparent that evrything in that demo is ultra-showy, full of stacato movement and generally a bit kitchy in that fantastic Japanese way. Should a viewer get all excited and want to learn everything they saw at the demo, they'd be sorely disappointed after joining an actual dojo with the lack of bright lights and acrobatics - but maybe they'd get something far better out of it, or maybe not... it'd be up to them really.