Driving alone on a provisional

dudara

A quick query on Gardai and driving alone on a provisional (3rd in my case). I haven't driven in a while, and recently got onto the road with the purchase of my own first car.

I won't be on my own initially while i get back into the swing of things, but later, I intend to drive to work etc. What are the Gardai like for stopping L-drivers? Do they take a kind attitude to it, or what?

Thanks for any advice.

Big Nelly

dudara wrote:

A quick query on Gardai and driving alone on a provisional (3rd in my case). I haven't driven in a while, and recently got onto the road with the purchase of my own first car.

I won't be on my own initially while i get back into the swing of things, but later, I intend to drive to work etc. What are the Gardai like for stopping L-drivers? Do they take a kind attitude to it, or what?

Thanks for any advice.

Well everyone knows my opinion on this, if you are on a L plate and you are supposed to have a licensed driver with you then don't drive without one. My calls for a year ban for people caught without a licensed driver didnt get much support here(prob due to the number of people on L plates that cant be bothered taking the test)

Seen a thread here yesterday where Garda where finally starting to stop L plate drivers on M50, they should do this more but on all roads and check if they have a licensed driver. Its about time we got all these L plate drivers off the road. Might stop the traffic problems we are having and the number of deaths

Bamboozled

There's a few threads about this.

The Gardaí are clamping down around the Cork-Mallow area and the Fermoy area. The provisional license holders are beginning to meet the local judges on regular basis. They are being fined €150 in my area.

There are codes on your license ( see the thread about cops stopping L drivers on the M50) and those codes will show that you are on your third license if they read it properly.

dudara

I have no issues with L-drivers being stopped on the M50, it's a motorway after all.

I have already applied for a test, and I probably will see about getting a letter from work to do it as early as possible. It's never been my intention to be a long-term provisional holder. My previous two licenses were held when I was a student under my parent's insurance.

besty

Big Nelly wrote:

(prob due to the number of people on L plates that cant be bothered taking the test)

In fairness, I haven't passed my test yet. This is not down to any degree of laziness on my part whatsoever. The ineptude of the testing system and it's inefficiency is where you should direct your criticism, not at the people patiently waiting for 54 weeks to obtain a full driving license.

I agree that there may be a minority who aren't exactly busting a gut to get a test date, but there are large savings on insurance to be made and other benefits on the road to being fully licensed. For this reason, it would be foolish to believe that so many people "can't be bothered taking the test" when there are such tangible benefits being foregone by failing to doing so.

jhegarty

that time of the week again....hhhmmm... here we go....

Keedowah

There are lots of posts about this topic here - too many in fact.

(prob due to the number of people on L plates that cant be bothered taking the test)

Big Nelly - i know where you stand on the whole issue - and i dont want to argue about that - but when you come out with cr*p like this its another thing. People on L plates "cant be bothered" to take the test!!! Where have you been for the last 10 years! The waiting list in most area's is about a year. I am sure that the majority of people on L plates want to get a full licence asap.

Big Nelly

Keedowah wrote:

Big Nelly - i know where you stand on the whole issue - and i dont want to argue about that - but when you come out with cr*p like this its another thing. People on L plates "cant be bothered" to take the test!!! Where have you been for the last 10 years! The waiting list in most area's is about a year. I am sure that the majority of people on L plates want to get a full licence asap.

Already had this arguement with a number of people, when I finished college and started work where I would need a drivers license, was on prov because only drove when I was at home the odd weekend, I applied for test. 2 weeks later sat the test and passed and this was supposed to be during the worst time to get a test because the waiting list was longer then

Then my mate a few weeks ago started a new job in Dublin so she would need a car to drive up and down from Cavan so applied for her test, got a date a month later(prob any day now she is doing test) so that wasn't much of a waiting list. If you want to do the test there is no problem from what I can see in getting a date. Any of my mates(who I know can drive) who wanted to do test because they knew they would pass have NEVER waited over 2 months before taking there test after applying. Great thing this waiting list that everyone complains about

Bamboozled

So ye are the ones jumping the queue ? No wonder the waiting list is getting longer and situation more dire. Great admission there.

michaelanthony

They won't really stop you unless it's a checkpoint for tax and insurance or if you do something that attracts their attention.

It's a good idea to have the NCT, tax and insurance discs in date because if they do have an issue with your license, they will probably only tell you off. They might give you a summons but that will probably be thrown out by the judge. Or as in my case, they will say that they are giving you a summons but not - just to give you a fright and sort out your driving test.

dudara

It's not particularly jumping the queue. I'm just surprised that more people don't go down the work letter route. It gets you qualified, and saves you money.

BTW, before I'm shouted at for jumping the queue, I do have a valid reason for getting the work letter.

Does anyone else know how long you might be waiting if you use the work-letter tactic, in the Cork area?

jhegarty

Big Nelly wrote:

Already had this arguement with a number of people, when I finished college and started work where I would need a drivers license, was on prov because only drove when I was at home the odd weekend, I applied for test. 2 weeks later sat the test and passed and this was supposed to be during the worst time to get a test because the waiting list was longer then

Then my mate a few weeks ago started a new job in Dublin so she would need a car to drive up and down from Cavan so applied for her test, got a date a month later(prob any day now she is doing test) so that wasn't much of a waiting list. If you want to do the test there is no problem from what I can see in getting a date. Any of my mates(who I know can drive) who wanted to do test because they knew they would pass have NEVER waited over 2 months before taking there test after applying. Great thing this waiting list that everyone complains about

as someone who waited my turn for over 12 months that just makes me sick....

are you the person who jumped the que at the atm last night in front of me too ?

pontovic

In good circumstances I would give you this answer...

Don't drive on your own on a provisional licence, especially if you are starting out. I understand since you are on your third licence you may have had some experience driving in the past ? Apply for your test as soon as possible and get as much experience in with driving instructors and friends who have full licences. You cannot rely on just having a provisional licence to commute to work. You should get your licence soon enough.

I wish I could tell you you could get your test in about 4 weeks, but thats not the case. My situation was the same as yours. I needed to get to work and I had a car, so I drove it there on my first provisional before I passed my test. I took the risk of driving alone and being caught and thank god nothing ever happened. I now have my full licence. I would have been in big trouble had I have been involved in an accident. If you are going to drive, just drive carefully but not too overly cautious. Get some pretest lessons.

Keedowah

The average waiting time is 43.3 weeks - it can range from 28 weeks to 60 weeks. I heard your argument before - if you want your test quickly AND your job requires it - then your company can send in a letter for you.

Great point..... not. Ok - we will say there is 150,000 drivers on L plates who do this - does that mean that the backlog will be cleared within 2 months?

I dont want to argue over this - i think the topic of driving on a provisional should be banned (for at least 2 months).

I see your point when it comes to driving and the law and i respect that - but you gotta see that the whole testing system is a joke. I waited a year for the test, when i got a date for it i couldn't sit it because i would be out of the country. So when i cancelled it i was sent to the end of the queue, there was no phone call to say "How does this date and time suit you" I think that this simple phone call would speed things up!

Vegeta

Big Nelly I know your friends got their tests nice and quick but there are thousands of people who are not as fortunate.

There are currently 137,000 people on the waiting lists, my younger brother was waiting 14 months, my older brother was waiting 12 months, my brothers girlfriend was waiting 15 months. They all passed on their first go but if they failed they would have had to wait another year.

Not everyone has a job where their boss will write them a letter, and if you claim well they should be able, it just isn't that easy. I work in a very strictly run company that is full of red tape and have been told by my boss (he told the whole group not just me) he cannot give these letters.

They talk about bringing the waiting time down to 6 weeks, this would be a godsend.

Keedowah

Waiting times:

http://www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/HTMLContent/frameset.html

ballooba

I have been driving since September on my first provisional. I did my first test the week before christmas. I was waiting three weeks.

I have just applied again about two weeks ago and I hope to have my date within a month.

I don't know who the people waiting 12 months for a test are because anyone I know uses the work letter route.

mik_da_man

dudara wrote:

It's not particularly jumping the queue. I'm just surprised that more people don't go down the work letter route. It gets you qualified, and saves you money.

Does anyone else know how long you might be waiting if you use the work-letter tactic, in the Cork area?

The work letter tactic does not always work - at least not in meath
I have given in a letter from work and am still waiting 6 months
and I know of a few friends in the same suitation.
However I know one guy who got the test in 2 weeks - but his letter was like " if he does not get the test he will not have a job" suppose this approach works

Keedowah

ballooba - maybe not everyone else can get a letter from work! Read the post above. And maybe if everyone else is using that method - is it causing more problems?

Vegeta

ballooba wrote:

I don't know who the people waiting 12 months for a test are because anyone I know uses the work letter route.

Surely not all of them need it for work though and could be getting the bus/walking/cycling so they are probably abusing a law to prevent themselves abusing another law

The_Conductor

Totally aside from the long waiting times- you can simply put yourself down for a cancellation. You might not get a lot of notice, but if you are ready to take the test you shouldn't need a lot of notice. A 21 year old work colleague got a cancellation in Naas in 2 weeks flat, without going down the road of getting a letter from work (she passed too, because she was properly prepared for the test).

The big problems contributing to the massive backlog are people not being properly prepared for the test and having to resit it several times. Also a big factor is people not cancelling in sufficient time for their slots to be offered to alternate candidates (or in a large number of cases simply not turning at all).

We have a very laissez faire attitude to driving in this country. We are the only country in Europe with a "Provisional Driving Licence" which allows you on the public roads prior to passing any test whatsoever. This is changing (by dictat from Brussels) in order to homogenise the driving tests and requirements all over Europe.

Re: Gardai stopping provisional drivers (or any drivers) and querying them- in Westmanstown in Dublin the Traffic Corp had a large checkpoint (8 officers) at the turn-off for the Tinkers Penny Hill last night. Everyone was stopped and their tax/insurance/licencing/NCT certs etc were all queried. It was generally good natured (possibly with the exception of those forced to pull in at Luttrelstown for further questioning.

You are breaking the law by driving unaccompanied by a fully licenced driver when you are on a provisional licence. It is not a serious infringement, it is however illegal. If you want to drive on the roads, obey the laws. Future policing of these laws looks certain to be drastically tightened, particularly when the provisional licence is finally phased out in 2012.

ballooba

Not everyone who sends in a work letter sends it from their own employer.

Big Nelly

You have to be a bit slow if you don't include the work letter. Grand so offices might not give them out but just type up a letter with a fake managers name and sign it yourself. Its not like they ring the office to check if you really got the letter:eek:

_Kaiser_

Big Nelly wrote:

Its about time we got all these L plate drivers off the road. Might stop the traffic problems we are having and the number of deaths

Nelly we've discussed this and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that the "traffic problems" and road deaths are the result of L drivers.

Henry Ford III

smccarrick wrote:

.....You are breaking the law by driving unaccompanied by a fully licenced driver when you are on a provisional licence. It is not a serious infringement, it is however illegal. If you want to drive on the roads, obey the laws. Future policing of these laws looks certain to be drastically tightened, particularly when the provisional licence is finally phased out in 2012.

I think it can be a very serious issue.

Imagine somebody on say their 3rd provisional license. Their eyesight is ok as that's been checked, but apart from that they may never have travelled 1 yard behind the wheel and it's ok for them to wander out onto busy roads and sometimes motorways unaccompanied? Of course it's not.

Full licence hoilders can be every bit as bad too. Remember the amnesty?

Big Nelly

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Nelly we've discussed this and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that the "traffic problems" and road deaths are the result of L drivers.

Says the L driver who failed his test, wind up the elastic band and let your car gooooooooo

Henry Ford III

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Nelly we've discussed this and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that the "traffic problems" and road deaths are the result of L drivers.

If you've been tested (and the test is far from perfect admittedly) your chances of being a reasonably safe and capable driver must be better.

_Kaiser_

Big Nelly wrote:

Says the L driver who failed his test, wind up the elastic band and let your car gooooooooo

Failed because of not pulling out in front of people on busy roundabouts (and we all know most people don't even know how to use them anyway given the number of "what would you do?" threads on the subject here), so excuse me for not wanting the nose of the car ripped off by some idiot who doesn't know what lane to be in.

The difference as well between me and your "can't be arsed" learner is I've already reapplied (the same week) and with a letter from the job, yet I don't see them beating my door down with a test date yet?

Big Nelly

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Failed because of not pulling out in front of people on busy roundabouts (and we all know most people don't even know how to use them anyway given the number of "what would you do?" threads on the subject here).

The difference as well between me and your "can't be arsed" learner is I've already reapplied (the same week) and with a letter from the job, yet I don't see them beating my door down with a test date yet?

Watch the railing!!!!

Keedowah

Its illegal to drive on a provisional without a fully licenced driver beside you, end of story, no problem. But Nelly there is no need to be an insulting ars*hole. Dont call people slow.

tred

Big Nelly wrote:

You have to be a bit slow if you don't include the work letter. Grand so offices might not give them out but just type up a letter with a fake managers name and sign it yourself. Its not like they ring the office to check if you really got the letter:eek:

This is called Fraud. And hence probably why people of honesty are still in queues. Its typical irish culture. If yer not cute enough etc etc. In my honest opinion there shjould be no such thing as queue jumping. if one needs a full license for a job, then they should only apply for it when they have it.

Big Nelly

Keedowah wrote:

Its illegal to drive on a provisional without a fully licenced driver beside you, end of story, no problem. But Nelly there is no need to be an insulting ars*hole. Dont call people slow.

Thanks for the personal insult. Didn't call anyone slow, it was a general observation that everyone now included the work letter, don't think it actual makes any difference.

If you want to use personal insult then please go somewhere else. Its not allowed on here.

mdebets

Keedowah wrote:

Big Nelly - i know where you stand on the whole issue - and i dont want to argue about that - but when you come out with cr*p like this its another thing. People on L plates "cant be bothered" to take the test!!! Where have you been for the last 10 years! The waiting list in most area's is about a year. I am sure that the majority of people on L plates want to get a full licence asap.

Keedowah wrote:

The average waiting time is 43.3 weeks - it can range from 28 weeks to 60 weeks.

With an average waiting time of 43.3 weeks, there is no need for 2nd or even 3rd provisional licences, as mostly everyone can do the driving test before it expires. As there are still many people out there driving on their 2nd or 3rd licence, it means that they either couldn't be bothered to do their test or are so cr*p in driving, that they shouldn't be allowed on the road in the first place.

alias no.9

The excuse of being out of the country is bollix unless you had to go at very short notice because all you have to do is ring the DOE in ballina or westport or castlebar or whereever the office is and let them know you will be away, if you're due to be called during this time, you'll be bumped back until after your return date, not to the end of the queue.

As has been said before, being prepared to accept a cancellation time slot at short notice will get you a test quicker and all of the tests are schedulled from the one office so the 'well it might work there but it doesn't work here' excuse is also bollix.

Anybody who gets to their 3rd provisional license must have failed the test or not bothered applying, or maybe they just thaught they'd be smart and get their first before they started driving so they could drive on their own straight away. Well time's up after your second, you're not so smart now. There are no excuses, even with the length of the queues, you've easily got enough time to sit through the full queue 3 or even 4 times before you get onto your 3rd provisional and that's without taking the cancellation at short notice route. So the whole 'I'm a great driver but the queue for the test is just so long' excuse is also bollix.

So you've got 3 to 4 chances to pass your test, more if you're prepared to do it at short notice, that's more than lenient enough as far as I'm concerned. In germany, if you fail your test x number of times (I think it's 3 but I'm not certain) you're referred for a psychological assessment to determine if you should be allowed take it ever again.

Keedowah

You have to be a bit slow if you don't include the work letter.

Lots of people here didn't include a letter from work when applying. Therefore you are calling them slow - i took offence to it - i felt insulted - anyone else?

don't think it actual makes any difference

then howcome you insist that by including it you get your test within 2 weeks??

If you want to use personal insult then please go somewhere else. Its not allowed on here.

I think i have been quite fair - i took offence to what you said - i think you could make your point without your jibes and insults. If the mods think that i am being insulting can they please let me know?

Vegeta

Big Nelly wrote:

You have to be a bit slow if you don't include the work letter. Grand so offices might not give them out but just type up a letter with a fake managers name and sign it yourself. Its not like they ring the office to check if you really got the letter:eek:

well i didn't include a work letter so you called me slow and most of my family, which is personal abuse

Typing a letter and signing anothers name is fraud

Vegeta

alias no.9 wrote:

The excuse of being out of the country is bollix unless you had to go at very short notice because all you have to do is ring the DOE in ballina or westport or castlebar or whereever the office is and let them know you will be away, if you're due to be called during this time, you'll be bumped back until after your return date, not to the end of the queue.

As has been said before, being prepared to accept a cancellation time slot at short notice will get you a test quicker and all of the tests are schedulled from the one office so the 'well it might work there but it doesn't work here' excuse is also bollix.

Anybody who gets to their 3rd provisional license must have failed the test or not bothered applying, or maybe they just thaught they'd be smart and get their first before they started driving so they could drive on their own straight away. Well time's up after your second, you're not so smart now. There are no excuses, even with the length of the queues, you've easily got enough time to sit through the full queue 3 or even 4 times before you get onto your 3rd provisional and that's without taking the cancellation at short notice route. So the whole 'I'm a great driver but the queue for the test is just so long' excuse is also bollix.

So you've got 3 to 4 chances to pass your test, more if you're prepared to do it at short notice, that's more than lenient enough as far as I'm concerned. In germany, if you fail your test x number of times (I think it's 3 but I'm not certain) you're referred for a psychological assessment to determine if you should be allowed take it ever again.

Has anyone else noticed that there is no option on the online application to take a cancellation, that really annoyed me. I would sit my test tomorrow if it was offered to me

alias no.9

Vegeta wrote:

well i didn't include a work letter so you called me slow and most of my family, which is personal abuse

Typing a letter and signing anothers name is fraud

It doesn't have to be from work, it doesn't even have to be from another person, all it has to say is that you need to do the test asap and will take a cancellation timeslot at short notice. Anyone who has already sent in their application should have got a response saying their application has been recieved with a referance number. All they need to do is send in a letter now, quoting this referance number saying they need their test quickly and will do it at short notice.

alias no.9

Vegeta wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that there is no option on the online application to take a cancellation, that really annoyed me. I would sit my test tomorrow if it was offered to me

There's no option anywhere, it's an additional piece of correspondance that can be added to your application at any time once you have the reference number.

_Kaiser_

Vegeta wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that there is no option on the online application to take a cancellation, that really annoyed me. I would sit my test tomorrow if it was offered to me

I noticed that too when reapplying so rang them. They say to apply as normal then when you get the confirmation reference number, send them a letter with it requesting a cancellation (and a letter from work if you can get it).

That's what I did anyway.

[Edit: Damn you Alias! *shakes fist* ]

Keedowah

The excuse of being out of the country is bollix unless you had to go at very short notice because all you have to do is ring the DOE in ballina or westport or castlebar or whereever the office is and let them know you will be away, if you're due to be called during this time, you'll be bumped back until after your return date, not to the end of the queue.

First i heard of this. Where did you hear about it?

Vegeta

alias no.9 wrote:

There's no option anywhere, it's an additional piece of correspondance that can be added to your application at any time once you have the reference number.

I was nearly sure there was an option on my brothers test application form, a tick box which you could tick if you were willing to take a cancellation. Does anyone have the form handy??

Keedowah

It doesn't have to be from work, it doesn't even have to be from another person, all it has to say is that you need to do the test asap and will take a cancellation timeslot at short notice. Anyone who has already sent in their application should have got a response saying their application has been recieved with a referance number. All they need to do is send in a letter now, quoting this referance number saying they need their test quickly and will do it at short notice.

This is not the case - i asked them for a cancellation - and was told that I could ONLY get it if i got a letter from my employer. The letter needed the company registration number and all contact details on it.

Vegeta

alias no.9 wrote:

It doesn't have to be from work, it doesn't even have to be from another person, all it has to say is that you need to do the test asap and will take a cancellation timeslot at short notice. Anyone who has already sent in their application should have got a response saying their application has been recieved with a referance number. All they need to do is send in a letter now, quoting this referance number saying they need their test quickly and will do it at short notice.

Yes but i was responding to a particular poster who was saying send a letter from work. I will definitely send a letter requesting a cancellation no problem but i cant get one from work.

As everyone is probably doing this now it mightn't improve things much but i can hope

alias no.9

Keedowah wrote:

First i heard of this. Where did you hear about it?

It's right there on the application form, periods of unavailability, exams, holidays, etc... You can ring or write to update your application form at any time. I contacted them on behalf of my girlfriend last year when she was doing exams. She had rang up and cancelled because she was afraid they would clash. I contacted them straight away and not only were they happy and able to 'uncancel' but they updated the periods of unavailability, no problem. There's a huge bottleneck in the system but by contacting them and explaining things to them, you'll find they're both helpful and flexible.

Keedowah

thanks for that.

I do have a letter in now for 3 weeks from my new employer - and i have no trips planned over the next few weeks - so hopefully i wont have to contact them again.

alias no.9

Keedowah wrote:

This is not the case - i asked them for a cancellation - and was told that I could ONLY get it if i got a letter from my employer. The letter needed the company registration number and all contact details on it.

Send in the letter anyway. Tell them why you need the test quickly, personal circumstances, need to commute to work in an area without public transport, planning on going abroad and need a license, etc, etc, etc... Whatever your own reasons, tell them and if there are dates, tell them this too.

Keedowah

I do need it for my new job - i got the letter from my new company and sent it in. Cheers.

mike65

Right, enough of the crap! Big Nelly quit trolling and generally stirring it up, there's no point in complaining about abuse from the moral high ground (faking letters?!) when you go looking for a reaction . Reminds me of another thread in Soccer tbh.

I'm locking this thread as its clearly serving no useful purpose.

Mike.