What do you do?

Daithio

Final 11 of a tournament, I've been gathering chips quite well, the players are overall fairly good but quite tight, although they have been making some positional steals. PokerMan is tight but not stupid, I don't know the other player as he's just moved to the table. Average is 20k and I have 35k. I've been raising quite a bit but have only shown down good hands, I get QQ on the button with blinds at 600 1200. I make it 3600, and PokerMan moves in for 19k, I'm instacalling this. Then the BB who I don't know and is the only player at the table who has me covered flat calls. What's your move?

MrPillowTalk

Its a fold for me, at best your probably racing at worst you are a big dog.

Whats the buyin? unless he is a total muppet then we have to think the new guy has a big hand its just gone bet hefty raise call, I dont like QQ here. If we fold the other two could easy have 2 pocket pairs lower than QQ but too often you get shown AA KK by the flat caller.

NickyOD

Against an unknown I'm jamming it all in. I think 95% of the time AA and KK just push and isolate here. It's very rare that someone will get cute like that at the business end of an online tournament.I expect the tall stack to have TT-QQ.

Poker & Pints

is that your losing to Pokerman with KK or AA. I have a feeling the BB has a mid pair or AQ,AJ,KQ suited(along those lines). So since your beat for the 19K then you're playing for the side pot which only gets you back to your current stack minus your raise(approx). I think fold is best then, no sense in playing for the side pot with the potential of getting a BB put on you.

Samba

An important lesson i've learnt is to value your tournament life line.

This hand could mean a huge difference in $$$.

My concern is the BB, Pokerman thinks your on the steal as you've been raising quite frequently but we should give him credit for a hand after coming over the top of your raise.

There are only two hands I can see the BB flat calling with, AA/KK, surely he would try and isolate with anything less?

Step out of the way, you still have a very healthy stack to play with.

The flipside is if you do get involved and you have the best hand, this puts you in the driver seat to go on and win the tourney, you'll have no more grinding to do.

The best situation you could hope for is for both of them to have AK/AQ/AJ.

He's called and does not seem bothered or disturbed by your raise, alarm bells.

Hitman Actual

Interesting question, but I dont fold here unless I'm so tuned in to the table that I feel like I'm behind. QQ is a big hand here, I dont mind taking AK on. If you're behind, you're unlucky.

DeLaBass

I fold here. I think you have a good read on the table and don't need to enter what's probably going to be a 50:50 with your big stack.

connie147

Without much info,Im folding here.Looks like BB wants you in the pot as well and if he wants you there I reckon he must have the aces(he surely pushes with kings to get you out of the pot).You dont have to get involved right now as your well over the average.Youll gain a bit of info on the BB when you see his holding that might help you later on so much as it hurts,I'm folding here.

Daithio

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Whats the buyin? unless he is a total muppet then we have to think the new guy has a big hand its just gone bet hefty raise call, I dont like QQ here. If we fold the other two could easy have 2 pocket pairs lower than QQ but too often you get shown AA KK by the flat caller.

It was a $75 FO on Full Tilt, with 170 odd runners. The players were pretty poor earlier on, but it had a good structure and in general the players were of a pretty high standard at this stage from what I'd observed.

ianmc38

I would fold, but it's marginal.

nicnicnic

Fold but I think that your in front of the smooth call from the bb as I think he pushes here with AA KK or even Ak. It wouldnt take much for the to push from the small blind here if youve been raising alot as usua;) l, so I'm putting Sb on a wide range of hands. Think at best youre a 60% 65%fav with only a tenth of your stack in the pot I'm giving it up.

Daithio

Yeah I eventually folded after alot of thought and very reluctantly. The SB was definitely just making a resteal with probably a small pair or a decent ace, but I figured that the majority of the time a flat call from the BB in that spot is AA or KK. He had AK anyway and the sb had 66. There was a Q on the flop .

Hitman Actual

Wow, am I the only person who calls this? The hand ranges by nicnicnic are pretty much what I'm thinking as well, so I really think it's a call (unless a gut-instinct of being up against AA/KK prevails).

nicnicnic

I was going to suggest a call and take a flop but having dismissed AK , 19k is just to much and to risky here. Hoped it worked out and you won ?????

nicnicnic

Daithio wrote:

but I figured that the majority of the time a flat call from the BB in that spot is AA or KK. .

I'm pushing here with AA kk every time unless I'm shortish, am I wrong ???

NickyOD

..

NickyOD

lenny_leonard wrote:

Wow, am I the only person who calls this? The hand ranges by nicnicnic are pretty much what I'm thinking as well, so I really think it's a call (unless a gut-instinct of being up against AA/KK prevails).

Why would you call off 60% of your stack preflop here?

Hitman Actual

NickyOD wrote:

Why would you call off 60% of your stack preflop here?

Sorry, just reread OP. I thought BB pushed and had you covered. I'm going to push myself the way it plays.

RoundTower

lenny_leonard wrote:

Wow, am I the only person who calls this? The hand ranges by nicnicnic are pretty much what I'm thinking as well, so I really think it's a call (unless a gut-instinct of being up against AA/KK prevails).

I would also call but it's close.

Daithio

nicnicnic wrote:

I'm pushing here with AA kk every time unless I'm shortish, am I wrong ???

EDIT, was writing that post while doing about 10 other things, so here is what I meant.

The BB, if he is going to play the hand at all, should push with whatever he has. AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, but from my experience, if somebody has flat called in this situation, it's most likely that he has AA or KK.

kincsem

I folded QQ preflop in the Fitz a while back when two players got jiggy. They both showed AK and ace high won it.

I would play all the way with QQ.

ianmc38

Daithio wrote:

but from my experience, if somebody has flat called in this situation, it's most likely that he has AA or KK.

Indubitably.

Gholimoli

lenny_leonard wrote:

Interesting question, but I dont fold here unless I'm so tuned in to the table that I feel like I'm behind. QQ is a big hand here, I dont mind taking AK on. If you're behind, you're unlucky.

thais is not true Len.if his behing his not unlucky as the action suggests that he is behind and he should be able to get away from this.
the only hand i can see BB flat calling with here is actually just AA (unless his a real donkey and with stack and him making it this far i doubt he is).
he would come over the top even with KK here as 19K is big enough to take down .what he prob is thinking here is ,i have AA ,im not gonna come over the top as the button may just like his hand enough to call here.
i think this is an inst fold.

Hitman Actual

Gholimoli wrote:

thais is not true Len.if his behing his not unlucky as the action suggests that he is behind and he should be able to get away from this.
the only hand i can see BB flat calling with here is actually just AA (unless his a real donkey and with stack and him making it this far i doubt he is).
he would come over the top even with KK here as 19K is big enough to take down .what he prob is thinking here is ,i have AA ,im not gonna come over the top as the button may just like his hand enough to call here.
i think this is an inst fold.

Fair enough, but if you read through my replies you'll see that I misread the OP and thought BB pushed and had Daithio covered, which is a different scenario. The flat call by BB looks strange alright, but I don't think it's a good flat call. For the stack sizes in play, BB should be pushing, imo.

Gholimoli

lenny_leonard wrote:

Fair enough, but if you read through my replies you'll see that I misread the OP and thought BB pushed and had Daithio covered, which is a different scenario. The flat call by BB looks strange alright, but I don't think it's a good flat call. For the stack sizes in play, BB should be pushing, imo.

he should be pushing yes but the only hand poeple would get cute with and try to milk it for more is AA and some times KK.