We three Kings of orient are

fuzzbox

Two KK hands for your love and attention..

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($947.75)
SB ($860.75)
Hero ($2311)
UTG ($970)
MP ($1045.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K. SB posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, MP raises to $35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $125, MP calls $100.

Flop: ($275) 6, 4, 2(2 players)
Hero bets $200, MP raises to $600

Hero ???



And ...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($3322.75)
Hero ($1000)
SB ($1000)
BB ($566.50)
UTG ($1150)
MP ($1882.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG raises to $34, 1 fold, CO calls $34, Hero raises to $140, 2 folds, UTG folds, CO calls $106.

Flop: ($329) Q, 2, 4(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $240, CO calls $3182.75 (All-In)

Hero?

RoundTower

I think I would shove both of them, you are getting a reasonably good price and villain can have hands you beat. Why no reads?

delanec8

1. Ive changed my mind about this one a fair bit but i think without reads we can expect to see JJ and QQ here a good portion of the time so i call

2. Youre getting almost 2.25-1 on your call so i think its a call. There are enough hands you are up against that you are ahead of or racing with that he could have.

He has only called the two raises so i think we can rule out AA. He could have any nutflush draw,AQ,QQ, maybe KQs,44,22 though less likely without reads imo. If he can have AQ 20% and the nut flush draw 20% and a set the rest of the time, which imo is worst case scenario for hero, then it is still marginally a call(could be slightly wrong approx calculation, but its close). I know he could have other hands but imo these are the most likely.

Hectorjelly

hand 1 I get in on any turn
hand 2 I feel a little unwell but call anyway.

Hectorjelly

Imagine how fun hand 2 would be if you covered the villain

ianmc38

I call both.

Hand 1 we're only losing to AA here.
Hand 2 Close the eyes

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

hand 1 I get in on any turn

Why not stick it in on the flop? He only has ~$300 left and he'll be getting nearly 5:1 if we just shove.

Hand 2 I don't like a call here. His PF action looks like a 22-99 pocket pair and I don't think he shoves the flop like this with 33, 55-99.
What else is in his range - AQ/2 clubs? Do people play like this with 2 clubs at 1kNL versus your image?

Also whats your reraising range like? I think your hand is pretty well defined in this spot.

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

hand 1 I get in on any turn

What difference does it make, he only has 300 left?

fuzzbox

Well, in both hands I got all-in.
Hand 1 - villain had 66
Hand 2 - villain had 22

Both sets stood up.

I was just making sure that neither was easy to lay down.

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

Also whats your reraising range like? I think your hand is pretty well defined in this spot.

I reraise much more hands than AA/KK, and I usually bet the flop just the same as this.

DeVore

I'm with HJ on these too except that I shove on the flop on Hand 1.

Hand 2 I hate calling but I call. His huge huge reraise says AQ to me which is consistent with his preflop betting but only if he's a poor-to-middling player. Theres something about his huge reraise that stinks but only you can judge if its because he wants to end the hand there and then, he's trying to con you into calling his set of Q's because it LOOKS like that or he's stealing with his huge stack.

DeV.

DeVore

fuzzbox wrote:

Well, in both hands I got all-in.
Hand 1 - villain had 66
Hand 2 - villain had 22

Both sets stood up.

I was just making sure that neither was easy to lay down.

Didn't realise you'd posted the answers there before I posted. Fnck me but that seems very strange.

In the second one I did consider the set possibility but I would have thought QQ then 22 ffs!

DeV.

ianmc38

What a joke calling that size raise with 22 and 66. Although they obviously had the implied odds

FastMachine

Well there's really no way your getting away from these hands after you've bet out on the flop. The thing is, when you reraise this much preflop you basically announce that you've got AA or KK and at least 85% of the time you'll only get called by set hunters unless you're dealing with serious donkeys. The villains actually had implied odds on you in both hands. They know if they hit, you get stacked and if they missed they're down their reasonable preflop investment.

ianmc38 wrote:

What a joke calling that size raise with 22 and 66. Although they obviously had the implied odds.

I don't see what difference it makes calling with 66,22,1010,JJ, etc.... a set is a set and that's what these villains were after.

You need to make an extra large reraise preflop (if reraising is what you want to do with KK, I don't mind flat calling) - enough to take away the implied odds so you'll still be +EV overall if you end up all in on the flop against a set. That's why I wouldn't do this with KK against the better players as they'll lay down everything that you beat and you'll only be put all in by aces. Sometimes you still get called and stacked by a set when you make the over reraise but at least they're the ones making the mistake, if that eases the pain a bit, which it usually doesn't.

With KK (and AA but KK more often), I'll often reraise smaller, so I'll have more room to manouevre on the flop and can get away from the hand before I'm committed. So it's either over-reraise with the big pairs preflop, a not-so big reraise or a flat call. If you're oop position it's definately either flat call or extra large reraise. I think the worst thing is to make a stack committing reraise that's giving decent odds to pocket pairs.
And don't worry about not getting called with the over-reraise, it used to be my default play with AA (my style's changed a bit in the last few months) and it worked great - only the winning players will fold QQ and AK and as we know most villains aren't winning.

MrPillowTalk

I get it in on hand 1.

Any reads on villain in hand 2 I might get away from it...........might.

Neither an easy lay down

fuzzbox

Yo Fast
Another way to kill opponents implied odds is to reraise with more hands than just AA/KK. Thus, they still lose their 140 every time they miss their set regardless of whether or not I have the best hand, and when they do hit their set they dont always get my stack ,because sometimes I have no hand, or sometimes the board reads AK4 and I have JJ etc.

Finally - no matter what happens, if some1 puts 140 in preflop to try to win 1000 then they get 7:1 odds, and thats precisely the odds they need to flop a set. However, if they dont always get my stack when they do flop a set, yet I get their 140 most of the time they dont, then they lose a lot of money in the long run.

MrPillowTalk

fuzzbox wrote:

Yo Fast
Another way to kill opponents implied odds is to reraise with more hands than just AA/KK. Thus, they still lose their 140 every time they miss their set regardless of whether or not I have the best hand, and when they do hit their set they dont always get my stack ,because sometimes I have no hand, or sometimes the board reads AK4 and I have JJ etc.

Finally - no matter what happens, if some1 puts 140 in preflop to try to win 1000 then they get 7:1 odds, and thats precisely the odds they need to flop a set. However, if they dont always get my stack when they do flop a set, yet I get their 140 most of the time they dont, then they lose a lot of money in the long run.

fairly spot on analysis

RoundTower

I think both the preflop calls are marginally bad (not terrible and certainly not strange), even if fuzz always has AA/KK. In both cases it looks like villain is getting 10-1 or so implied odds which looks like a good price to try and hit a set, but there is not enough overlay for the times villain hits a set and doesn't double up.

FastMachine

fuzzbox wrote:

Yo Fast
Another way to kill opponents implied odds is to reraise with more hands than just AA/KK. Thus, they still lose their 140 every time they miss their set regardless of whether or not I have the best hand, and when they do hit their set they dont always get my stack ,because sometimes I have no hand, or sometimes the board reads AK4 and I have JJ etc.

Finally - no matter what happens, if some1 puts 140 in preflop to try to win 1000 then they get 7:1 odds, and thats precisely the odds they need to flop a set. However, if they dont always get my stack when they do flop a set, yet I get their 140 most of the time they dont, then they lose a lot of money in the long run.

They are not putting in 140 to win 1000, they're putting in about 100 to win 1060 so they're getting odds of almost 11-1. I don't think they'll lose their 140 every time you to this with nothing either as most villains will call off their stacks the times they have an overpair to the board, especially if you reraise preflop frequently (as in, with more than just AA/KK) so 99-QQ won't be folded automatically if it's a low flop. Similarly I don't see 88-1010 being automatically folded on a J or 10 high board if you reraise often enough. So, I don't see this as losing your opponents alot of money in the long run, I'd see it more as a kind of neutral EV situation.

RoundTower wrote:

I think both the preflop calls are marginally bad (not terrible and certainly not strange), even if fuzz always has AA/KK. In both cases it looks like villain is getting 10-1 or so implied odds which looks like a good price to try and hit a set, but there is not enough overlay for the times villain hits a set and doesn't double up.

That depends on how often Fuzz is reraising with lesser hands.