Did I underestimate my opponent or was his call questionable?

lazlo

On World Poker Exch the other evening I sat into a 3/6 table. It was a 10 seat table but it was shorthanded(3, sometimes 4 handed) for the first 45 mins or so. One player at the table xBadguy23x had proved himself to be an excellent player in my view. he plays reckeless loose poker but has an amazing feel for his opponents plays(as good as any I've come across online). He had been highly abusive in the chatbox to all of his opponents and he had successfully tilted almost everyone at the table. One player Dirkey, had just gone on a massive chip swing - he played all of the last 6 or 7 hands before this one and had played all of them abysmally. In the previous hand he called badguys 70$ preflop raise with 42 offsuit, he flops a pair of twos and then calls a bet in excess of 150$, the turn came another 2 and Dirkey doubles through.
Bad guy has taken a massive hit to his stack and the moron has a huge stack, meanwhile a few new players join us at the table. The complexion of the table has changed somewhat and I see this as an opportunity to stamp some control over the table....near the button in I pick up A-9 offsuit and this is how it plays out....

6.00/12.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - GMT Fri Jun 2 05:06:53 2006
Table '', 10 seats max, not started, Real money, Money game
Seat 8 is the button. SmallBlind 3.00, BigBlind 6.00
Note: seat IDs range from 0 to 9
Seat 0 (playing): Legacy2985 (161622), amount $563.10, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 1 (playing): teckie (160448), amount $467.00, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing): Anna_Conda (167269), amount $600.00, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (sit out): dcash (167909), amount $550.00, amount bet $0.00, penalty (Dead)
Seat 6 (playing): lazlo (166707), amount $516.74, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing): thegmblr (157757), amount $591.00, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing): xBadguy23x (167348), amount $585.85, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing): Dirky (162487), amount $1679.65, amount bet $0.00, penalty (None)
Dirky: Small Blind ($3.00)
Legacy2985: Big Blind ($6.00)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to lazlo: [ Ac 9d ]
teckie: Call ($6.00)
Anna_Conda: Fold ($0.00)
lazlo: Call ($6.00)
thegmblr: Fold ($0.00)
xBadguy23x: Raise ($12.00)
Dirky: Call ($9.00)
Legacy2985: Call ($6.00)
teckie: Call ($6.00)
lazlo: Raise ($35.00)
xBadguy23x: Fold ($0.00)
Dirky: Call ($23.00)
Legacy2985: Call ($23.00)
teckie: Call ($23.00)

***Bearing in mind that the table has literally just filled up I'm confident that the new players won't be comfortable with intense raising from the get-go, my concern was to isolte Dirkey in this pot and hold position on him, to do this I had to force bad guy out, the only way to do this was to limp-raise badguy, which is exactly what I did. Immediately to badguys left Dirkey smoothcalls---not surprising. What stuns me is the two calls from the new guys to his left. I'm guessing that they have medium strength drawing hands or mid-pairs as there is certainly enough in the pot to make a substantial reraise if either of them is packing steel.

** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [ 2c 3d Ad ]
Dirky: Bet ($45.00)
Legacy2985: Fold ($0.00)
teckie: Fold ($0.00)
lazlo: Raise ($90.00)
Dirky: Call ($45.00)
** Dealing Turn **

***This is a great flop to my mind, I'm not surprised that dirkey has a go, I'm delighted with the folds to his left. I hastily reraise him and he flat calls, I believe that this pot is here for the taking on fourth street, I've put him on a flush draw, maybe a weak ace....I'm certain that his player hasn't made better than top pair aas he habitually jams the pot when he has a bigger hand.


Community cards: [ 6h ]
Dirky: Check ($0.00)
lazlo: Bet ($391.74)
Dirky: Call ($391.74)

I move allin---Dirkey waits until almost all his time has elapsed and calls
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [ 6s ]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Dirky: Show Cards ($0.00)
lazlo: Show Cards ($0.00)
** Showdown **
Main pot $1112.48, Rake $3.00
Summary dcash: bet $0.00, won $0.00, net $0.00
Summary lazlo: bet $516.74, won $0.00, net -$516.74, HiHand [two pairs, aces and sixs][ Ad Ac 6s 6h 9d ], kicker [ 9d ]

Summary Dirky: bet $516.74, won $1112.48, net +$595.74, HiHand [two pairs, aces and sixs][ Ah Ad 6s 6h Th ], kicker [ Th ]
, won $1112.48 from main pot

He has Ace-Ten, I'm gutted and stunned that he could make that call---this is the first pot I've played with any force in some time and he is flat calling preflop re-raise and flop re-raise? I would normally be kicking myself for this kind of play but I still feel kindof justified in what I did.....was there any getting away from this hand?

Ste05

If you are playing this thinking you have a better hand then Dirky, then you need to bet more Pre-Flop and on the flop.

Pre-flop make it 50 or so.
On the flop, don't min-raise

You then would have more info on the opponent's actual hand this time and not what you think he has, as it played out you had very little info before you made the big bet on the turn. But TBH, A9 isn't really a hand that you want to put your stack behind.

Nice post though, lots of info to work with...

Hectorjelly

You played the hand terribly, preflop is bad. Do this with AK or a hand like 67s (or AA). Your hand is bad, has very little showdown value and almost never flops anything good and concealed.

The flop is actually a disastor, you are much better off flopping a 9 or nothing.
The flop min raise is awfull, it achieves nothing and bloats the pot with a fairly crap hand. If you had a set here the min raise would be understandable (still not a good play) as you want to keep him in. Just flat call his bet or make a proper raise.

The turn is the worst played street. You should check through -your hand is just on the edge of what someone is likely to call with, ie they will fold worse hands and call with most better ones. And your bet is so big that it makes it easy for him to play perfectly. Remember most opponents dont like folding.

A9o should be folded preflop in early position

Edit to add, you are asking the wrong question. Dont blame your opponnents for playing bad - you want and should be gratefull for doing this. If someone makes a call like this then you really shouldnt be trying to push them off hands.

Gholimoli

the only think i wanted to say about this hand was dont try to push calling stations off hand.
your saying he made a bad call but he didnt.thats how much he knows of poker.you should have known this.
did you not witness him calling a huge pre flop raise with 24 and then call a huge bet with pair of 2s.well this is a kinda of player that does not fold and trying to get him to fold will just break you.
against this type of player value bet your big hands big time becuase they will call and generally they see big bets as bluffs so if you have a big hand bet big agianst them.check/call your marginal hands against them .

lazlo

A-9 isnt a hand that I'd normaly pull a move like that with, when I reraised preflop, trebling Badguys bet of 12 to 36 I was hoping to either sccop preflop or wind up heads up with the calling station.

If I had won it prelop the guys at my table would have been very confused by my - limpraise from late position and I certainly would have found it easier to see more flops with my drawing hnads as BadGuy would be less inclined to raise me.

Dirkey had just amassed a huge amoun of chips that was effectively dead money--If I didnt act on that hnad the odds were that one of the other guys at the table would be scooping away Dirkey stack within the next 10 minutes or so. My sticking point is the min raise on the flop, at that point the pot was about 200 and I should have made it 180 rather than 90. However I don't think any bet of any size on that flop was gonna put Dirkey off.

When I pushed on the turn I had about the same amount of chips in my stack as what lay in the pot and I was very confident tat I had the best hand, I actually wanted him to call. I don't think I played the hand particularly bad--It was a hand played as a strategic reaction to the shift in the table around me, the min raise on the flop is my only sticking point.

Hectorjelly

lazlo wrote:

A-9 isnt a hand that I'd normaly pull a move like that with, when I reraised preflop, trebling Badguys bet of 12 to 36 I was hoping to either sccop preflop or wind up heads up with the calling station.

If I had won it prelop the guys at my table would have been very confused by my - limpraise from late position and I certainly would have found it easier to see more flops with my drawing hnads as BadGuy would be less inclined to raise me.

Dirkey had just amassed a huge amoun of chips that was effectively dead money--If I didnt act on that hnad the odds were that one of the other guys at the table would be scooping away Dirkey stack within the next 10 minutes or so. My sticking point is the min raise on the flop, at that point the pot was about 200 and I should have made it 180 rather than 90. However I don't think any bet of any size on that flop was gonna put Dirkey off.

When I pushed on the turn I had about the same amount of chips in my stack as what lay in the pot and I was very confident tat I had the best hand, I actually wanted him to call. I don't think I played the hand particularly bad--It was a hand played as a strategic reaction to the shift in the table around me, the min raise on the flop is my only sticking point.

Whilst what you are saying sounds reasnable, the hand is still terribly played. Getting HU with the idiot is a good plan, but what you ended up doing was creating a masive multiway pot with a very marginal hand. Also your thinking is confused - what exactly are you trying to do on the turn. Push Dirkey off a hand? Get him to put all his chips in with a worse hand? The bet on the turn is really really bad, you said he was bad yet he nearly folded AT. So he is probably folding Ax lower than T. You managed to make a $400 bet which will never get called unless you are beaten. You also stop him from bluffing you.

Every decision made in this hand was wrong

Preflop limp is bad (not awfull).

Reraise is bad - yes you had your reason but there are huge disadvantages, namely you have a hand which has a great deal of negative implied odds. Ie if you hit the flop its likely you wont get paid off unless someone has a better hand. If you had AK this doesnt really happen.

The raise amount is too small.

On the flop the min raise is just awfull, unlessyou are planning on taking a free card on the turn.

Turn all in bet is the worst decision of all, for reasons already stated.

I know this comes across as harsh, im not trying to be offensive!

RoundTower

If you really thought your opponent was terrible and would pay you off with any pair or any draw then your play isn't so bad. If you are trying to bluff him this is horrible, you would be better off holding something like 34 here. If you don't know which you are trying to do, that's not good poker either.

lazlo

Hectorjelly wrote:

Whilst what you are saying sounds reasnable, the hand is still terribly played. Getting HU with the idiot is a good plan, but what you ended up doing was creating a masive multiway pot with a very marginal hand. Also your thinking is confused - what exactly are you trying to do on the turn. Push Dirkey off a hand? Get him to put all his chips in with a worse hand? The bet on the turn is really really bad, you said he was bad yet he nearly folded AT. So he is probably folding Ax lower than T. You managed to make a $400 bet which will never get called unless you are beaten. You also stop him from bluffing you.

Every decision made in this hand was wrong

Preflop limp is bad (not awfull).

Reraise is bad - yes you had your reason but there are huge disadvantages, namely you have a hand which has a great deal of negative implied odds. Ie if you hit the flop its likely you wont get paid off unless someone has a better hand. If you had AK this doesnt really happen.

The raise amount is too small.

On the flop the min raise is just awfull, unlessyou are planning on taking a free card on the turn.

Turn all in bet is the worst decision of all, for reasons already stated.

I know this comes across as harsh, im not trying to be offensive!

Appreciated, I I concede that the flop reraise was pitiful(I rushed the play a little) -- however I was convinced I had the best hand - as I've said I had this player would have played back really hard with a made hand like a straight, trips or two pair. So I placed him on a draw a weak pair or a straight draw with a pair. Considering the information I had on the player I felt justified in this read. I was also fairly certain that he would call the turn allin bet. I wanted him to call as I felt I had the best hand, remember my allin is slightly less than the pot -- and I'm convinced that the guy will call and double me through, If he doesnt I'll still have made a reasonable amount for the hand. I can see where you're coming from your criticism of my hand selection, however the play was set up to make the new guys in front of me fear my raises behind them and also to stop BadGuy driving me out of pots, the kicker to the play was the potential to make a dent in Dirkey...

On refelction I think 48 was the right preflop reraise and that 180 should have been bet on the flop... I don't think I was gonna escape this hand considering how I'd set myself up for it, it was just unfortunate on my part that Dirkey caught a hand that dominated his opponent for once.