About Investigations!

Ziycon

Its just an idea, but if you want i can bring a digital video recording system that can handle up to 8 cameras includeing night vision cameras which can also be used with wireless cameras but the only problem whould be that a power source is needed for the system to run and a power source is needed for each camera, maybe if its a big investigation the occupants wont mind leading a few power points!???! I would be hande to have video photoage from a few angles!

stormkeeper

It would depend on the location, but it'd be a pretty interesting thing to try out. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be able to be tried at Charleville; the power requirements would be a bit much for the generator!

Ziycon

well its just an idea, maybe somewhere else in the future will come up!:D

monkeyfudge

Charlville has gotten better with power. This time around a lot more rooms had power in them.

But I still think you'd have to run a lot of extension cables about the place to reach the places you wanted to... so we'd definitely want the castle to ourselves.. which seems to be a problem these days... maybe in the winter.

It's a nice idea... but it's going to leave you with a HUGE amount of hours of footage to wade through...

stormkeeper

I'm hoping that we'll be able to have the castle to ourselves in August. Naturally though, not at the beginning of that month perhaps towards the middle or end of it. If not then, perhaps the beginning of September, bit after that it's really pushing it for me!

monkeyfudge

It would be ideal if you could have the cameras feeding back to a bank of screens in a central location. As monitoring them live like secuirity cameras might be the best way to avoid having to wade through hours of footage.

People could take turns monitoring the camera feeds.. maybe two sets of eyes at a time.

stormkeeper

monkeyfudge wrote:

It would be ideal if you could have the cameras feeding back to a bank of screens in a central location. As monitoring them live like secuirity cameras might be the best way to avoid having to wade through hours of footage.

People could take turns monitoring the camera feeds.. maybe two sets of eyes at a time.

That would definately be an idea. You could also setup a computer or two to do the same thing as well perhaps. I know there's software that does such a thing as I seen it used on an investigation I went on last year. I know there are also USB cameras that can see in the dark too, you could perhaps have a bank of those.

What I'd love is a camera that can see in the dark and could be dialled via a videophone, that would rock. Granted, they already have that to some extent, but the IR/nightvision feature would be very useful if it were added. Would cost a bit in mobile phone bills, mind and you can't record either...

Ziycon

The system i have is proper CCTV monitoring software that runs on a windows 2000 OP systems, it can handle upto 36 cameras and all cameras cam be monitored at once! I can get my hands on a 26" screen for the monitoring in one location, but its'll all possible, just the power points for each camera is the only thing!

RoundyMooney

Here's an idea (and if I'm reinventing the wheel, I'll STFU). Thermal imaging cameras. There's a lot of talk of cold spots and temperature drops on investigations, and if the shape of these can be determined, then so can the reason. Who knows what might show itself?

I remember we used to have one at work, for determining stress points on electrical plant, but that wasn't able to capture real time. Getting such a beast may be a problem though...

Ziycon

RoundyMooney wrote:

Here's an idea (and if I'm reinventing the wheel, I'll STFU). Thermal imaging cameras. There's a lot of talk of cold spots and temperature drops on investigations, and if the shape of these can be determined, then so can the reason. Who knows what might show itself?

I remember we used to have one at work, for determining stress points on electrical plant, but that wasn't able to capture real time. Getting such a beast may be a problem though...

Sounds expensive!

GuanYin

I posted previously about equipment that would be suitable in another thread (that I've forgotten about).

Here are some linkies to ebay items I found after a quick search.

night vision wireless camera

Noise activated thermometer/barometer (digital with history function)

Infrared laser thermometer

Digital Damp measuring device

Dgital voice activated dictaphone

another digital dictaphone

Thermovision camera - This one is expensive, but I've seen old models (ex military ones) for sale at under 100 US dollars - so long as it works!

If you randomly scatter ditcaphones (voice activated on the highest setting), digital thermometers, and set up a few wireless cameras (they run of batteries, so you may need to change the battery after a few hours). You may pick up something. Patrolling with a heat vision camera (especially looking at cold spots or apparitions) would give you a much more solid data than with cameras alone - imagine getting the field of vision of an apparition on both camera AND thermo!!!!


You can also get kits like this one:
Ghost hunting kit this contains :
CellSensor EMF meter
Beam Barrier Alarm
IR thermometer with Laser
In/Out Thermometer
Hydro-Thermometer

Which is nice, because I picked out everything but the beam barrier and EMF as single items

stormkeeper

You can get a lot of the stuff (especially the kit) from www.tomsgadgets.co.uk

In fact, that kit is actually from the same guy. He does do good stuff though. Personally speaking though, if you do tomsgadgets on eBay, check his site out first; the eBay autions can be a few quid more expensive than the actual price!

stevenmu

Some good ideas here. I've often thought before that the ideal situation would be to have a whole mesh of various sensors spread over the whole area, all linked to a PC monitoring them in real-time which could direct investigators to points of interest, and recording information to later confirm anything the investigators pick up on.

The obvious obstacle to all this is cost. In the run up to the most recent trip, I spent over €500 on a camcorder and bits for it. That's a lot of money for most of us and I was only willing to do this for 2 reasons, one being that I'll use it in other situations too, the other being that it's all worth a lot more than that so I'll be able to get my money back if I want.

Another problem is that none of this kind of equiptment has really been proven to be of much use. No one has ever been able to get a detailed picture from a thermal imager, or take some readings from a sensitive gaussmeter, and say yes, that's definitely a ghost. The only piece of equiptment proven (and when I say proven, it still requires a huge leap of faith) to work is the MK-I Human Brain. It would be very easy to end up with a closet full of expensive gadgets and gizmos that aren't much use for anything.

Largely this is down to the fact that very little equiptment is specifically designed for this type of useage. Things like emf meters or IR laser thermometers were all designed for other purposes and then somebody decided to stick an "As Seen On MOST HAUNTED" sticker on them. This means that either you end up with something reasonably priced which isn't really suitable for the task, or spending thousands on stuff which is intended for well funded research labs or businesses who can justify them because they'll get a lot of use, fulfill a variety of roles or help them make more money.

For me personally, to be even thinking about getting near this level of equiptment, investigating would have to become self-financing. As things stand there isn't a huge amount of money to be made doing investigations or through other ancialliary activities. Hopefully, as the field of parapsychology becomes more widespread and accepted, grant money will start to appear, but even then it'll be hard to come by.

GuanYin

You know, I still don't see a problem in having donations from people going on the trip in order to buy equipment.

If 10 people going threw in 10 Euro each plus whatever else they could afford, thats a long way towards buying some sensors and wireless cameras.

Ownership of the equipment would be the remit of the lead investigators (as its always among 2-3 people who organise these things). and so long as its all available for group investigations nooone is likely to cry shenanigans.

I for one would have no problem in throwing in an extra 10-20 quid if I was spending 3 days at an investigation. Even with the 40 Euro for Charleville, its still less than half the price of a music festival.

stevenmu

That's a good idea, and it's something we have discussed amongst ourselves before. I think it's something we could very well look at seriously for the next time.

(btw, the €40 charleville charge is for one night at the castle. A second night might cost another €40, I don't know if we'd be able to wrangle a further discount or not, probably would depend on the time of year and how busy the castle is)

6th

Its hard enough for me to get away for one night! 2 nights + and i'm in a divorce court

As for the additional money for equipment - i'm still not sure.
For one, some people might only come on one trip, then there are others who'll try come to all of them - them "having" to give extra money each time wouldnt sit well with me.

Plus the whole idea of the investigations as being a non-profit things might be compromised?

Eventually its something which could take off but as highlighted on another thread if these trips started making money for anyone, Boards would definately need a "donation".

I have no problem supporting boards and only really subscribed as i wanted to give me little bit as a thank you for a great service.

Being honest though, would i like to make money from doing this kind of thing? Yes and No.

Yes i would like to be able t o fund what i do i.e. equipment etc. Camcorder tapes, batteries and all that cost money and i spent a small fortune for this trip.

& No, I would not like to make money for it as a way of making a living. "Having" to do it to food food in front of my family would bring alot of pressure and take the love out of it for me.

Maybe the organisers can leave a tip jar out next time though or payment in kind....you know who you are!

monkeyfudge

6th wrote:

Maybe the organisers can leave a tip jar out next time though or payment in kind....you know who you are!

Any tip jar would be completely offset by the swear jar we talked about getting for you.

GuanYin

6th wrote:

As for the additional money for equipment - i'm still not sure.
For one, some people might only come on one trip, then there are others who'll try come to all of them - them "having" to give extra money each time wouldnt sit well with me.

Well no, if the money is taken well enough in advance, perhaps at a beers, then you have time to get the equipment before the trip, so they see the benefit.

Plus the whole idea of the investigations as being a non-profit things might be compromised?

Who is profiting? If all money is put into equipment that is there for everyone to use, I don't see how that is profit. You're just investing donations into improving the investigation quality.

Eventually its something which could take off but as highlighted on another thread if these trips started making money for anyone, Boards would definately need a "donation".

Fair enough but you just ensure that they never do make a profit. Only take what you need. Its a very wiccan philosophy.

Seriously though, if it was 40 Euro for one night and people had to donate 10 Euro more, but then got the advantage of sound, EMF, temperature and night camera sensors, then I think everyone would see that as a good trade off. Noone is profiting, the equipment belongs to the community. Its not a business because noone is making money.

Its just a group of like-minded individuals investing money in equipment for a shared interest.

Being honest though, would i like to make money from doing this kind of thing?

Well to be fair, thats really another issue.

Yes i would like to be able t o fund what i do i.e. equipment etc. Camcorder tapes, batteries and all that cost money and i spent a small fortune for this trip.

The point is, it wouldn't be YOU funding them, it would be the group. Although yo may store the equipment, it wouldn't be YOURS per se.

Maybe the organisers can leave a tip jar out next time though or payment in kind....you know who you are!

Well it depends what the payment is for. No individual should profit from these imho.

You could always organise a pub quiz or something to raise money to buy equipment. You can have several rounds on paranormal, mythology, legends, etc.

stormkeeper

I'm very much agreeable with 6th on the issue, so I really need to say no more about it.

Monkey: Maybe we should put out a swear jar instead of the tip jar... would mean that we had more money, or we could combine the two? We could have our cake and eat it then

stormkeeper

psi wrote:

Well no, if the money is taken well enough in advance, perhaps at a beers, then you have time to get the equipment before the trip, so they see the benefit.

That's fair enough, and I definately see your point regarding this

Who is profiting? If all money is put into equipment that is there for everyone to use, I don't see how that is profit. You're just investing donations into improving the investigation quality.

This is again, a valid point. We're not making any money from this... it's a similar model to what I'm working on operating for my websites/hosting company; only make enough money to offset costs out of my pocket, and if the model is self-sustaining, then fair enough. I've already decided that any "profit" that is made after costs will be put towards upgrading the infrastructure... or supporting/expanding it further. It's kind of a socialist approach towards things, if anything... I think

Fair enough but you just ensure that they never do make a profit. Only take what you need. Its a very wiccan philosophy.

...Or a Wiccan. (Agreed, btw.)

Seriously though, if it was 40 Euro for one night and people had to donate 10 Euro more, but then got the advantage of sound, EMF, temperature and night camera sensors, then I think everyone would see that as a good trade off. Noone is profiting, the equipment belongs to the community. Its not a business because noone is making money.

I definately see your point here and again, I agree with you.

Its just a group of like-minded individuals investing money in equipment for a shared interest.

Indeed.

Well to be fair, thats really another issue.

One that wouldn't be worth looking at for a while, at least...

The point is, it wouldn't be YOU funding them, it would be the group. Although yo may store the equipment, it wouldn't be YOURS per se.

The equipment would be the communities, and thus any member would share in its usage... as already stated.

Well it depends what the payment is for. No individual should profit from these imho.

I don't see this as a very profitable venture... heck, I don't even see business ventures regarding the paranormal as very profitable. If they make money, then fair enough, but it is a rare thing to be able to do, I feel.

You could always organise a pub quiz or something to raise money to buy equipment. You can have several rounds on paranormal, mythology, legends, etc.

That could definately work, though I think we'll have to see what 6th says about all of this...

6th

Extra equipment would be great, there is no doubt about it. But theres no way i'd get involved in people throwing in money to buy it as a group - I just personally wouldnt be comfortable with it.

Also as i've been involved with most trips done through here it might be a case of me doing the buying and being reasponsible for the equipment - what if i got banned from boards?

Its also a case that we get non boards members on these and strictly speaking they are potentially open to anyone who gets in touch.

Ziycon had it right which involved equipment he has access to already, this is great in that its expensive stuff be he's willing to have everyone benefit.

I'm going to keep buying equipment myself and hope to get to a stage were i can lend it out as i wont be on every trip. I've got the SSIA coming in in August so that will help me a bit, i'm also really lucky to have a wonderful wife who always knows what i'd like for birthdays etc


Swear jars came up on this trip but if there had been one I'd have lost my house!

6th

If i was holding onto the equipment i'd feel i was "profitting" from it in a way, paymnet in kind almost as i could use it as i liked when there wasnt a trip on.

Also there would have to be a serious element of trust involved.

And finally possibly the biggest reason i would choose not to do this is that those who have paid towards equipment may have automatic right to go on trips - dont get me wrong the people that have come on these trips are great but places like Charleville can only take maybe 14 people max and new comers might not get a lookin.

For me one of the best things about these trips is influx of new blood and the fact they are open to everyone. Thats said anyone i do in future wont be a first come first served situation. I've had people miss out on trips coz they filled up so quickly, then at the end someone pulls out (which is fine) and theres not enough time to get someone to replace them.

monkeyfudge

6th wrote:

Extra equipment would be great, there is no doubt about it. But theres no way i'd get involved in people throwing in money to buy it as a group - I just personally wouldnt be comfortable with it.

I agree... I'm having visions of that episode of the Simpsons where Milhouse, Bart and Martin all chip in and buy the Radioactive Man comic together.

A fund raising pub quiz does sound good and I'd be willing to lend my support in helping to organise it... but there is still the thorny issue over who gets custody of the equipment.

stormkeeper

monkeyfudge wrote:

A fund raising pub quiz does sound good and I'd be willing to lend my support in helping to organise it...

I'd be the same way, provided I could make a trip to Ireland then!

but there is still the thorny issue over who gets custody of the equipment.

very very true. I'm kinda glad I can't be included in this issue because I'm so far away, lol

GuanYin

Hrmm, I guess from my perspective, there wouldn't be a trust issue because I'm viewing you all as people with the interest of the community at heart.

Newbies may see it differently though I guess.

Even still, I do think that people would pay 10 Euro towards the purchase of equipment for a trip they went on. Remember, you are taking them as guests on your investigation and they do get to benefit from it. That said, perceived "ownership" is an issue.

Regarding "right to go on a trip" I think not. How you decide who goes on trips is your business, but I dont see why anyone should automatically be included. They already got the use of the equipment on the trip they have been on. Besides, why should you guys put up your equipment for everyone to use (and potentially break) all the time?

Regarding the people who drop out, if the 10 Euro was a non-refundable deposit (at least for the non regulars) then at least you may be assured that the rate of attrition for a trip would be less?

Its a pity, because I see your points about responsability, but with just a small amountof community cash invested, I think you could easily gather some decent equipment that may pick up something you may otherwise miss (or dismiss something you may have previously considered).

6th

Ideally it is a great idea. There is potentially so much politics involved though that i dont think i would ever take it on.

What i would consider is buy extra things myself for the use of the group and then having people make a voluntery contribution for the use of the equipment.

Any money received would go straight into buying more equipment. This would mean the organiser would own the equipment and the person coming along on the trip would be paying for the use of equipment just as they would the use of the location i.e. Charleville etc.

monkeyfudge

You could set up a small not-for-profit co-operative.

They're cheap and easy enough to set up. You could then have people buy shares in the co-operative. And with co-operative rules in place you'd never have a case of someone gaining a controlling interest by buying up lots of shares.

6th

On a similar note monkeyfudge did filming for this trip were he interviewed some of the people on it and also some people at the castle who had experienced things. I think that if people from the trip wanted copies of this, and if it suited monkeyfuge, a small donation for a copy would be a good idea as he is possibly putting alot of his time into editting it all.

In saying that it may not be possible or MonkeyFudge may not have time? Still i'd be more than willing to pay for a copy.

stevenmu

6th wrote:

What i would consider is buy extra things myself for the use of the group and then having people make a voluntery contribution for the use of the equipment.

This is how I'd see it working myself. That way there's no worries about collecting money from people who then don't make it to a trip or anything like that. I wouldn't be hugely worried about any of the trust/ownership issues, I think people organising events can pretty much lay down whatever conditions they feel like, as long as it's done with plenty of advance notice, it's not as if it's a service being sold which has to be altered to suit a customers wants.

monkeyfudge

Well... I have to find my missing tape first... boo!

I'll upload the video once I have something edited together so anyone is welcome to download it.

If anyone wants a DVD copy... then it may take a bit longer as getting to the post office to send stuff out is a total hassle for me. Maybe it would be better if I brought some copies along to a Greet & Grub.

Ha... not sure how great this is going to turn out though... as I interviewed you all throughout the night and as the night goes on and everyone got tired you got less and less eloquent with your words. My last interview with you 6th went something like "Grrr... mrrgh.... frggg... grrrr.... mmrrrrrr.... frrrr.... trnghhh..."

stormkeeper

monkeyfudge wrote:

My last interview with you 6th went something like "Grrr... mrrgh.... frggg... grrrr.... mmrrrrrr.... frrrr.... trnghhh..."

Dammit, what did I guys tell you about drinking on investigations! :mad:






Seriously though, I'm not surprised that you guys got less coherant as time got on... those investigations do tend to take a lot out of you!

Ziycon

Well like i said, money isnt a problem for the wireless cameras and recording/viewing unit as i have them already, i say again its just the power issuse!

monkeyfudge

Ziycon wrote:

Well like i said, money isnt a problem for the wireless cameras and recording/viewing unit as i have them already, i say again its just the power issuse!

It does sound great.... I think we could pull something off with all that...

But lots of extension cables would be the order of business for Charleville.

We could easily get power to a camera down in the dugeon anyway. Hallway no problem, Red Room no Problem, Music room no problem, Ball Room no problem.

The main staircase and the nursery could be tricky... but we might be able to work something out.

Ziycon

monkeyfudge wrote:

It does sound great.... I think we could pull something off with all that...

But lots of extension cables would be the order of business for Charleville.

We could easily get power to a camera down in the dugeon anyway. Hallway no problem, Red Room no Problem, Music room no problem, Ball Room no problem.

The main staircase and the nursery could be tricky... but we might be able to work something out.

Do you have or is it possible to get a rough layout of the place that i could have a look at??

GuanYin

according to web reviews, those small RF wireless cameras run off 5 volt batteries - with about 6-8 hours from a battery.

The receiver needs a power source too though so that could be an issue.
Also, I dunno what happens if you have a few of them running on the same frequency.

Ziycon

psi wrote:

according to web reviews, those small RF wireless cameras run off 5 volt batteries - with about 6-8 hours from a battery.

The receiver needs a power source too though so that could be an issue.
Also, I dunno what happens if you have a few of them running on the same frequency.

The battery may be possible, i'll check it out on one of them and let you know! the recivers and transmitter part of the cameras can each be put onto a channel from 1 - 12, so you can have upto 12 cameras on one circuit!

monkeyfudge

I don't have the layout myself... but 6th, Kennet or Stevenmu should be able to help you out. But there are certain rooms that have power and certain ones that don't.

Ziycon

monkeyfudge wrote:

I don't have the layout myself... but 6th, Kennet or Stevenmu should be able to help you out. But there are certain rooms that have power and certain ones that don't.

I would just be worried about the thickness of walls and floors/ceilings for the wireless cameras!

stormkeeper

monkeyfudge wrote:

I don't have the layout myself... but 6th, Kennet or Stevenmu should be able to help you out. But there are certain rooms that have power and certain ones that don't.

Ziycon, drop me a PM, and we'll talk about the layout of the castle further. By the looks of things, it may workl, but I'd still like to discuss power requirements with you anyway, just to be sure! I'd rather have erred (sp?) on the side of caution regarding the power requirements of that setup, but it does seem feasable, judging by things. I'll wait till there's further discussion on it, mind.

I don't know a full list of what rooms have power currently but I'll help where I can

monkeyfudge

Music Room, Ball Room and kitchen all had power this time around.

I'm not too sure about the Library... or anything on that side of the building.

The walls could be a problem though... they are stone after all...

GuanYin

I have a handheld blacklight that I will donate to you guys by the way. Should be good for identifying organic materials, oils, etc.

Someone gimme an address to post it to.

6th

Thats really nice of you Psi, just have to figure out who's the best person to hold onto the likes of that. I'll read up on possible alternative usages and pm you

GuanYin

6th wrote:

Thats really nice of you Psi, just have to figure out who's the best person to hold onto the likes of that. I'll read up on possible alternative usages and pm you

30 second google fun ahoy

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/abductionflourescents.html
http://www.centralohioparanormal.com/
http://www.getghostgear.com/default.asp?S=E3&Document=Knowledge+Center+Part+II&NID=2798952

Incidently, its no bother, I may even have two. I have other stuff I'll donate if I can find it among the mess which may include a dictaphone if it is still working (can't guarentee that).

stormkeeper

lol, you just want something to play with, don't you 6th?

I'm not the best person to store this device though, it might get damaged in transit each time I bring it over - if I remember to!

6th

Excellent, if no one else comes forward i'll claim it .... and gratefully so. I can pm you my work address or pick it up if you are near enought to me (south/west dublin or close to city centre?)

GuanYin

Its only hand held so it is small enough. I'll post it to your work address if you PM me. Should get it this week.

stormkeeper

6th wrote:

Excellent, if no one else comes forward i'll claim it .... and gratefully so.

I can imagine you with a huge smile plastered on your face while typing all that out...

Anyway, thanks psi

GuanYin

Kennett wrote:

I can imagine you with a huge smile plastered on your face while typing all that out...

Anyway, thanks psi

No prob at all.

Here is a simlilar model: (BL-6 on the right) http://blacklightshop.com/

stormkeeper

Ah yes, I've used one of those before at my last workplace. They needed them for checking conterfeit notes... a lot of them got lost/stolen in the end, mind...

GuanYin

Kennett wrote:

Ah yes, I've used one of those before at my last workplace. They needed them for checking conterfeit notes... a lot of them got lost/stolen in the end, mind...

Mine comes boxed *innocent whistle*

stevenmu

Now all we need is someone who knows how to use it ...