Schumacher takes controversial pole [Poll]

v10

So was it deliberate ?

from itv-f1.com:

Michael Schumacher will start from pole position in Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix after pulling a stunning 1m13.898s lap out of the bag.

But the Ferrari star caused consternation among his rivals, when he appeared to lose control at La Rascasse on his final lap, partly blocking the track and ruining several drivers final flying laps.

That stop Fernando Alonso improving on his best to go second fastest ahead of a stunning performance from Williams driver Mark Webber.

v10

Personally I don't think so, but then I'm biased being a fan.

whyamihere?

saw it live, very suspicious

OSiriS

I'm in 2 minds over this tbh, he has done this kind of thing before so I wouldn't put it past him. At the moment I'm thinking the problem was a mistake but he may have decided to take advantage of it and park it rather than trying to move himself.

chern0byl

The mistake was genuine. Im sure he did park it intentionally[to gain an advantage] but i think its a better decision than reversing on a very tight race track with cars racing at the fastest speeds they will do for the whole weekend.

Clever move by Schumi. race is his to loose now. Watch Fernando attemtping to use the Renualts TC to the fullest extent.

stever

I laughed as soon as I saw that knowing that it secured pole for him.

chern0byl

http://members.chello.hu/baranyi.eva/Schumacher.mpg

decide for yourself. I dont think he did it[parking] deliberately looking at this[i did before i seen this]

Jonny Arson

That link isn't working for me I'll throw up another one here.... http://personal.inet.fi/koti/yam2/mon_2006_q3_schumacher_incar_LQ.avi

When I heard he about this I wasn't surprised at all.... you cannot put anything past the guy at all (Adelaide 94', Jerez 97') Well I decided I would be open minded, I replayed this about 20 times but I've come to the conlusion that it was deliberate.

Doesn't look like to me there's any hint of understeer on his car by watching his steering and his tyres similtaneously it looks like a perfectly good handling racecar to me. If it wasn't deliberate why did he steer left on the exit of the turn when the car was perfectly exiting the corner on the racing line in the first place???

Well the stewards aren't taking any action over it presumingly on lack of clearcut evidence. Obviously telemetary will tell whether he intended to do this, only Ferrari will have that data but I'm sure if poor Schumi is all innocent they'll sound out the critics by making the data public..... I wouldn't put any money on it though!

stever

Fissichella has been penalised by the stewards for blocking Coulthard so will be starting from 10th. So it looks like Schumacher won't be penalised.

OSiriS

http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/060527193114.shtml

It's not just we TV viewing fans that are convinced of his guilt. It sounds like half the paddock think he did it deliberately.

nanook

there is alot of opinions going on here. Myself i am a huge schumy fan and i will give both sides of the forum.

mistake, he is fighting for the championship and pushed too hard

deliberate, he knows exactly what he is doing, his skill to hold the car without doing any damage just shows the driver he is.


look at the footage, i have too say, fan as i am, the man is guilty

OSiriS

Refreshing to find a fan who doesn't believe their hero can do no wrong:)

steviec

I reckon it was a mistake and a half hearted attempt at recovering since he knew he'd be better off not recovering.

I wonder how many other drivers would do the same thing, if they had the presence of mind to consider the overall picture in the middle of a lock up and only had a fraction of a second to figure out what to do. He very very nearly lost his wing so it wasn't exactly pre-meditated or anything.

OSiriS

It's a matter of sportsmanship, I think most drivers would do their best not to inconvenience other drivers. Unfortunately Schumacher has shown twice in the past that his has no problems resorting to poor sportsmanship and down right dirty driving when there is a championship at stake. It is for this reason I am skeptical over his innocence.

Corben Dallas

Cheat!

There is no doubt (IMO) that he maximised what might have been a small error into a pole winning cheating maneuver. If the Stewards can dole out a penalty to Fisi for baulking DC then they can give one to Schumi. Get teh FIA to force Ferrari to release his telemantary trace from that lap.

Its yet another case of the FIA being afraid of/siding with Ferrari. They are completely spineless when Ferrari are involved, its the Indy tyre fiacso again.
(FIA sided with Bridgestone(ie>Ferrari) at the expence of the whole grid/meaningful race).

Icing on teh cake (into MSC's mindset) was the first call he makes on his radio to teh pits "what position am i in?" answer " P1" => MSC parks car neatly beside barrier in final corner bring out Yellow flags.

I hope Alonso takes him out in the first corner on Sunday.

Running Bing

chern0byl wrote:

Clever move by Schumi.

Clever? its bloody cheating. I have no doubt he did it on purpose(and just for the record i have nothing against schumi). Now Im not a race driver, and maybe someone with a bit more knowledge of racing could comment more accurately, but his movements behind the wheel were serious suspicious. He looked like he consciously steered it into that position putting opposite lock on when there was little chance of oversteer. Then theres the fact that one of the most assured and experienced drivers in f1 manages to spin it on one of the last corners, with so much at stake and on one of the narrowest tracks in the calender manages to hit no barriers and takes a perfect position for disrupting others laps. Also I dont think anybody, fan or otherwise, can argue that schumi isnt capable of such a thing. The guys a winner and one of the most competitive people I have come across and he wants to win at all costs.add to this his somewhat sheepish behaviour in the press conference and I can only draw one conclusion. If he did it on purpse it truly was a dreadful thing to do and he should be disciplined severely.

SouperComputer

OMFG thats classic, minor mistake, and took full advantage. Hilarious.

Dcully

lol it was so deliberate its untrue.
Blatant cheating imo.
Doesnt surprise me after Adelaide ,Jerez,its stunts like this why i cannot stand him.

OSiriS

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=36078

The stewards agree:)

Dcully

God damn cheat.
He cant beat Alonso or Kimi fair and square he resorts to cheating,no surprise really:mad:

Zascar

I can't believe people who think that was an honest mistake... Watch the video, a true driving 'legend' doesn't make a 'mistake' like that... Its very sad that he has to resort such measures. I think Schumacer is having a negative effect on the sport in general. He should have quit last year and ended gracefully on a high. I used to be a fan a long time ago but now he just irritates the crap out of me. After todays little performance I'm sure he's going to loose a few more fans...

steviec

Very very harsh decision. He should have got the same punishment as Fisichella, Fisi cost DC time just as Schumi cost Alonso time, and indeed just as multiple cars block eachother every race weekend. It was a stupid thing to do but it wasn't dangerous and certainly wasn't premeditated, drivers do stupid things when they have a split second to think how to gain an advantage when a wheel locks or whatever all the time, quite often it leads to dangerous situations and crashes and yet the penalties are rarely as severe as this.

Apart from anything else, the FIA have probably ruined chances of a great battle at the front, and quite possibly have handed Alonso the championship on a plate, destroying any interest in the entire season.

Jfla

There is no doubt in my mind that he did it and fair play to him for doing so it took a lot of balls to do that. Okay so its morally wrong but footballers foul each other all the time!! takes that extra bit of balls to do it in a race car though. We have seen shu do things like this in the past (Jack V in sasuka about 10 years back). He is a racer and does what he has to to win. You don't get 7 world championships under your belt without doing every thing you can

Manic Moran

I think Steveic is about on the right track. At worst, a 10-place penalty would do nicely, but from the American commentators reading the rules on the TV, it seems that the Stewards didn't have a choice in the matter: They could send him to the back, or do nothing, but no options in the middle.

NTM

nanook

Jfla wrote:

There is no doubt in my mind that he did it and fair play to him for doing so it took a lot of balls to do that. Okay so its morally wrong but footballers foul each other all the time!! takes that extra bit of balls to do it in a race car though. We have seen shu do things like this in the past (Jack V in sasuka about 10 years back). He is a racer and does what he has to to win. You don't get 7 world championships under your belt without doing every thing you can

Jfla. you have hit it on the head, there is fouls in every sport, and they are all calculated, but name me one sports person who can calculate at 100+mph on a narrow street.

He is good, maybe a cheat, but he is goooood

Running Bing

Im sure it takes balls and a hell of a lot of calculation to hijack an airplane but does that mean its right and we should congratulte hijackers for it? im not saying what he did is the same as hijacking a plane but tahts Jfla's logic and its bull****. The punishment is lenient if anything. Hes a bloody out and out cheat and he put the entire sport in jeapordy. And how can you compare this to a foul in football. a foul rarely alters the outcome of a game (and if it does the player is excluded from the game). Also stevie c what part of parking an f1 car on a race track where cars are going around with an average speed of 100mph is not dangerous? If another driver made a real mistake at that corner it could have been a serious accident. Hes a bloody disgrace and the only people who will stick up for him are fans which isnt surprising.

The guy cant hack it anymore and instead of going out with a bit of class and being remebered for the right things he rsorts to blatant cheating. Id rather see Alonso win every race by a mile than see cheating like that. He can go now for all I care.

Dcully

Cant believe some guys are congratulating and promoting cheating,ffs you call yourselves motorsport fans,unbelieveable :mad:

He is good, maybe a cheat, but he is goooood

Noone doubts hes good but no longer the best and therefore he resorts to cheating just like before.

Okay so its morally wrong but footballers foul each other all the time

Dont even try to campare a foul in soccer to what schumi done :rolleyes:

but name me one sports person who can calculate at 100+mph on a narrow street.

Pretty much any professional driver tbh.

nanook

I can understand people saying he is a cheat, i personally think that's a bit strong. There is a lot of discussion of this potentially being schumi's last year, pressure from younger drivers etc.
But at the end of the day, everyone wants the glory, everyone wants to win, everyone wants to be at their best.
If you don't you are not a competitive person and will always be happy with 2nd place.
I stand by what I originally said, yes he is guilty but god he is good.

steviec

So, what Renault did today, having Fisichella hold up Webber for two whole laps, turning his 1 second deficit behind Alonso into a 6 second one at a point when Webber looked like a strong candidate for victory, how is that so different from what Schumacher did? At least Schumacher's move, while stupid, was clearly a split second adrenaline-fueled decision as he made a mistake in the middle of a corner, while what Renault did was much more calculated.

What Schumacher did yesterday was wrong, but I don't think he's the only driver who'd do it, since things like what I mentioned above happen all the time. Schumacher might simply be the only one good enough to execute it.

It's a pity this Schumacher's weekend will be remembered for that one decision, rather than the fact he set the fastest lap of the race, he overtook more cars than the rest of the field put together and he was the one and only driver who pushed from the start right to the chequered flag and really showed more determination than anyone else on track today.

edwin privitera

Corben Dallas wrote:

Cheat!

There is no doubt (IMO) that he maximised what might have been a small error into a pole winning cheating maneuver. If the Stewards can dole out a penalty to Fisi for baulking DC then they can give one to Schumi. Get teh FIA to force Ferrari to release his telemantary trace from that lap.

Its yet another case of the FIA being afraid of/siding with Ferrari. They are completely spineless when Ferrari are involved, its the Indy tyre fiacso again.
(FIA sided with Bridgestone(ie>Ferrari) at the expence of the whole grid/meaningful race).

Icing on teh cake (into MSC's mindset) was the first call he makes on his radio to teh pits "what position am i in?" answer " P1" => MSC parks car neatly beside barrier in final corner bring out Yellow flags.

I hope Alonso takes him out in the first corner on Sunday.

its obvious on which side you are on. other drivers have stated that schumi's penalty was too harsh. you go on to give as an example of how the fia favours ferrari by mentioning the indy fiasco, and indeed it was a farce, but you ignored the reason behind fia's decision. it was michelin that would not guarantee the safety of their own tyres. fia suggested to the michelin teams to install a speed trap in the the long straight leading to the crucial curve where ralf was hurt. they accepted the suggestion on condition that the bridgestone teams be made to observe the speed trap as well although their tyres had no problems. according to you, in this case, the fia was not being fair. again you conveniently chose not to mention the thousands of forlmula 1 fans present around the track that were disgusted when they saw all the michelin teams pitting after the formation lap.

Corben Dallas

So, what Renault did today, having Fisichella hold up Webber for two whole laps, turning his 1 second deficit behind Alonso into a 6 second one at a point when Webber looked like a strong candidate for victory, how is that so different from what Schumacher did?

Your not a Motorsport fan if u cant see any difference.(to use a Football sencario) Schumi commited a professional foul on Sat, not like a lil foul middle of the pitch etc, no it was a Thierry Henry thru on goal only the keeper to beat and the last defender(schumi) hacks him down cynically in the box -> Penalty and the defender should poss be also sent off.

There were two three drivers on faster laps in the last min in Qualifying @ Monaco. So Schumi would probably have started 3/4th on the grid had they been able to finsh their laps. Schumi delibrately had a 'fake crash' in the last corner bringing out the yellow flags,which means all drivers have to back off in that corner making all remaining laps useless.Clock continues to count down to zero, Quali over.

In the race its every man for himself,if yur fighting for position you can change your line once to block, if yur being laped by a faster car u get blue flags and pull over to let the leaders thru. But there wasnt waved blue flags for Fisi cause Webber wasnt close enough to him yet, and Fisi used the fact that hes in the same colour car as the leader to overtake 2 cars in the confusion. When the blue flags were waved Fisi pulled over. Simple as. This is sportmanship within the rules, what schumi did was cheating.

Corben Dallas

fia suggested to the michelin teams to install a speed trap in the the long straight leading to the crucial curve where ralf was hurt. they accepted the suggestion on condition that the bridgestone teams be made to observe the speed trap as well although their tyres had no problems.

LOL
Do u know how stupid and downright dangerous this would be????!!!!!
The final corner @ indy is part of the banking which is flat out taken at 150mph+ U could not (purely on safety grounds) have the Michelin runners(the majority of the field) braking/backing off to whatever speed limit and Bridgestone runners goin full chat as usual thru that corner.

Completely unworkable solution.
The correct thing to do was to put a speed trap for all cars to follow or a tyrewall before the corner entry.(which everyone would have also had to follow)

steviec

Corben Dallas wrote:

Your not a Motorsport fan if u cant see any difference.(to use a Football sencario) Schumi commited a professional foul on Sat, not like a lil foul middle of the pitch etc, no it was a Thierry Henry thru on goal only the keeper to beat and the last defender(schumi) hacks him down cynically in the box -> Penalty and the defender should poss be also sent off.

There were two three drivers on faster laps in the last min in Qualifying @ Monaco. So Schumi would probably have started 3/4th in the grid had they been able to finsh their laps. Schumi delibrately had a 'fake crash' in the last corner bringing out the yellow flags,which means all drivers have to back off in that corner making all remaining laps useless.Clock continues to count down to zero, Quali over.

In the race its every man for himself,if yur fighting for position you can change your line once to block, if yur being laped by a faster car u get blue flags and pull over to let the leaders thru. But there wasnt waved blue flags for Fisi cause Webber wasnt close enough to him yet, and Fisi used the fact that hes in the same colour car as the leader to overtake 2 cars in the confusion. When the blue flags were waved Fisi pulled over. Simple as. This is sportmanship within the rules, what schumi did was cheating.

I'm confused. It's ok to destroy Webber's race due to the fact the Marshalls messed up their blue flag duties in the confusion of two Renaults being a lap apart? So if it's ok to deceive the Marshalls in this instance why isn't it ok in qualifying? Nobody waved flags at Michael telling him to move. There's no rule saying that you get disqualified from qualifying if you slide off the track and stall. Schumacher doing that on purpose is no different to Renault taking advantage of inept Marshalls during the race on purpose. The only difference is that, as usual, everything Michael does is under the microscope while the others get a free ride.

If you want to stick with football analogies, while Schumacher commited his foul in a split second to try and salvage something from a mistake, like a defender stupidly sticking his hand out to stop a goal as an instinctive reaction, Renault spent two full laps eliminating Mark Webber as a threat, like a player spending a match trying to hack the legs off the opposition's best player.

In any case, nobody who commits a professional foul in soccer has to put up with crazy statements screaming for their head and calling them a disgrace to the sport or demanding they retire like Schumacher did.

Max Mosley phrased it well:

"I wouldn't go as far as to say it was cheating," Mosley told Reuters. "You've got to take the thing in its context, in the heat of the moment when you are desperately trying to get on the front row of the grid and you've got a split second to take a decision."

Schumacher made a mistake, that is all. And he got very severely punished for it. He should have been stripped of his qualifying time and moved to tenth like any other driver who blocks their opposition during qualifying is.

steviec

Corben Dallas wrote:

LOL
Do u know how stupid and downright dangerous this would be????!!!!!
The final corner @ indy is part of the banking which is flat out taken at 150mph+ U could not (purely on safety grounds) have the Michelin runners(the majority of the field) braking/backing off to whatever speed limit and for that corner and Bridgestone runners goin full chat as usual thru that corner.

Completely unworkable solution.
The correct thing to do was to put a speed trap for all cars to follow or a tyrewall before the corner entry.(which everyone would have also had to follow)

If it had been Bridgestone rather than Michelin that screwed up then the situation would have been the same with the Bridgestone teams not competing.

To think of a similar example, when the Mercedes at Le Mans a few years ago started flipping on the main straight, they pulled out, they didn't demand the track be changed or everyone else slow down on the main straight to give them a chance.

Heck within formula 1 last year you could even draw parrallels with the many races in which the Bridgestone tyres simply couldn't last the distance. They didn't complain and demand races be shortened, they just took it on the chin and had many bad results.

Michelin didn't bring a tyre to the race that could race, and nobody was at fault but Michelin. They had the option of making sure they take the turn at a safe speed but chose not to take it. The fact they'd be going slow meant they could stay off the racing line, and bridgestone runners would be fully aware of the possibility of slow moving Michelin runners at that turn, so safety wouldn't be an issue. Cars limp back to the pits slowly all the time in formula 1, it's not a problem.

edwin privitera

steviec wrote:

I'm confused. It's ok to destroy Webber's race due to the fact the Marshalls messed up their blue flag duties in the confusion of two Renaults being a lap apart? So if it's ok to deceive the Marshalls in this instance why isn't it ok in qualifying? Nobody waved flags at Michael telling him to move. There's no rule saying that you get disqualified from qualifying if you slide off the track and stall. Schumacher doing that on purpose is no different to Renault taking advantage of inept Marshalls during the race on purpose. The only difference is that, as usual, everything Michael does is under the microscope while the others get a free ride.

If you want to stick with football analogies, while Schumacher commited his foul in a split second to try and salvage something from a mistake, like a defender stupidly sticking his hand out to stop a goal as an instinctive reaction, Renault spent two full laps eliminating Mark Webber as a threat, like a player spending a match trying to hack the legs off the opposition's best player.

In any case, nobody who commits a professional foul in soccer has to put up with crazy statements screaming for their head and calling them a disgrace to the sport or demanding they retire like Schumacher did.

Max Mosley phrased it well:

"I wouldn't go as far as to say it was cheating," Mosley told Reuters. "You've got to take the thing in its context, in the heat of the moment when you are desperately trying to get on the front row of the grid and you've got a split second to take a decision."

Schumacher made a mistake, that is all. And he got very severely punished for it. He should have been stripped of his qualifying time and moved to tenth like any other driver who blocks their opposition during qualifying is.

you are right. thats exactly what should have happened

edwin privitera

steviec wrote:

If it had been Bridgestone rather than Michelin that screwed up then the situation would have been the same with the Bridgestone teams not competing.

To think of a similar example, when the Mercedes at Le Mans a few years ago started flipping on the main straight, they pulled out, they didn't demand the track be changed or everyone else slow down on the main straight to give them a chance.

Heck within formula 1 last year you could even draw parrallels with the many races in which the Bridgestone tyres simply couldn't last the distance. They didn't complain and demand races be shortened, they just took it on the chin and had many bad results.

Michelin didn't bring a tyre to the race that could race, and nobody was at fault but Michelin. They had the option of making sure they take the turn at a safe speed but chose not to take it. The fact they'd be going slow meant they could stay off the racing line, and bridgestone runners would be fully aware of the possibility of slow moving Michelin runners at that turn, so safety wouldn't be an issue. Cars limp back to the pits slowly all the time in formula 1, it's not a problem.

STEVIEC, I would'nt try to argue any longer with CORBEN DALLAS, you will be losing your time. everyone that followed our submissions can conclude for himself

edwin privitera

Dcully wrote:

God damn cheat.
He cant beat Alonso or Kimi fair and square he resorts to cheating,no surprise really:mad:

is it possible you are serious?? schumi won 2 races this year beating alonso in a good straight clean fight. and 100's of races schumi beat kimi. according to you not 1 of these races was a clean 1. who do you think you're chatting ??

Running Bing

nanook wrote:

I can understand people saying he is a cheat, i personally think that's a bit strong.

No its not. he cheated therefore hes a cheat,

steviec wrote:

What Schumacher did yesterday was wrong, but I don't think he's the only driver who'd do it

The fact of the matter stands that he was the only one to do it and if any other driver did it(including either honda drivers who Im a fan off) Id have the exact same reaction.

steviec wrote:

Schumacher might simply be the only one good enough to execute it.

Silly comments like that anre'nt helping your case. You clearly have the blinkers on.

Dcully

is it possible you are serious?? schumi won 2 races this year beating alonso in a good straight clean fight. and 100's of races schumi beat kimi.

Im talking about a title not single races here and there

according to you not 1 of these races was a clean 1.

LOL please tell me where i said that,do you have a habbit of reading what you want to hear instead of whats actually infront of you ?

who do you think you're chatting ??

LOL after that post i have an idea alright

steviec

Babybing wrote:

No its not. he cheated therefore hes a cheat,

So anyone who's broken the rules is a cheat? Based on this race weekend alone, that's Schumacher, Fisichella, Monteiro and Barrichello. And I'd say only the rookies on the grid have a completely clean career.

Babybing wrote:

The fact of the matter stands that he was the only one to do it and if any other driver did it(including either honda drivers who Im a fan off) Id have the exact same reaction.

I gave an example of someone else doing similar in the very previous paragraph, from this very weekend, being Fisichella destroying Webber's race. There's not a race goes by that someone doesn't accuse someone of dirty driving or purposely blocking or bending the rules in various ways, people only pay attention when it's Schumacher.

Babybing wrote:

Silly comments like that anre'nt helping your case. You clearly have the blinkers on.

My point was he seems to be the only one that has the presence of mind to think of how to make the most of a bad situation. There's the infamous incident with the Marshalls pushing him at Nurburgring a few years ago, something he got greatly criticised for even though he didn't break any rules. In Austria a few years ago his car went on fire in the pits, and where anyone else would be panicking, Schumacher was waving for the mechanics to let him drive out and the fire would go out. He's made it onto the podium when stuck with a car that only has fifth gear. He has a habit of surviving unscathed when he goes off track/spins. He just seems to have the ability to quickly think of how to maximise his situation when something goes wrong, where another driver might just give up. Qualifying was an example of that, but in hindsight, to anyone who has more than the fraction of a second to think about what to do that he had, it was a bad idea.

Corben Dallas

If it had been Bridgestone rather than Michelin that screwed up then the situation would have been the same with the Bridgestone teams not competing.

I would like to think Michelin would have reached a compromise to allow the race to go ahead.
You must realise for that year Bridgestones was towing the line of Ferrari only.
The other two Bridgstone teams dont count, Minardi and (Jordan- efectively Midland -name had'nt been changed yet- EJ was no longer involved at the top) They (nearly) never tested- had no tyre testing budget and Bridgestone designed their tyres tailor made for the Ferrari chassis, Minardi and Jordan got these tyres wheter they suited their own chassis or not. +Paul Stoddart let the cat out of the bag by revealing that all possible solutions were vetoed by Ferrari management (Jean Todt) with teh exclusion or Michelin teams being nobbled (by getting them to run thu the pit lane each lap). This is because Ferrari knew it was their only chance to win a race that year.

To think of a similar example, when the Mercedes at Le Mans a few years ago started flipping on the main straight, they pulled out, they didn't demand the track be changed or everyone else slow down on the main straight to give them a chance.

That was an issue effecting one team only, not like 7 teams from a 10 team grid. No one team is goin to ask the whole field to slow down so they can catch up.

Heck within formula 1 last year you could even draw parrallels with the many races in which the Bridgestone tyres simply couldn't last the distance. They didn't complain and demand races be shortened, they just took it on the chin and had many bad results.

No Ferrari doesnt complain it just gets teh FIA to get rid of the one tyre( which Bridgstone were so crap at) per race weekend and retintroduce tyre changes. No doubt part of the deal to get Ferrari to sign up to the FIA F1 agreement rather than the(now defunct) rival 'Manufacters' F1 series.

Michelin didn't bring a tyre to the race that could race, and nobody was at fault but Michelin. They had the option of making sure they take the turn at a safe speed but chose not to take it. The fact they'd be going slow meant they could stay off the racing line, and bridgestone runners would be fully aware of the possibility of slow moving Michelin runners at that turn, so safety wouldn't be an issue. Cars limp back to the pits slowly all the time in formula 1, it's not a problem.

Correct Michelin went too soft and had no tyres they could use safely thru the final corner. They admitted the fcuked up and accepted the blame.

You really dont know much about racing if u think that Michelin cars and Bridgestone cars can got thru a flat out corner at two significantly different speeds.
A modern F1 car even lifting off is the equivalent of a road going car standing on its brakes and screaching to a halt.

+A car limping back to teh pits with a puncture/ broken wing is different because its normally a single car(by itself) and way off the racing line, not 14 runners every lap.

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Seems to be a lot of rabid Ferrari fans who think Schumacher is a little angel who can do no wrong. One of them even thinks it was an extra special skill that Schumi would be so brave to cheat to pull off a dangerous 'fake crash'.

Schumacher should retire if hes goin to cheat like that to win.

steviec

Corben Dallas wrote:

I would like to think Michelin would have reached a compromise to allow the race to go ahead.
You must realise for that year Bridgestones was towing the line of Ferrari only.
The other two Bridgstone teams dont count, Minardi and (Jordan- efectively Midland -name had'nt been changed yet- EJ was no longer involved at the top) They (nearly) never tested- had no tyre testing budget and Bridgestone designed their tyres tailor made for the Ferrari chassis, Minardi and Jordan got these tyres wheter they suited their own chassis or not. +Paul Stoddart let the cat out of the bag by revealing that all possible solutions were vetoed by Ferrari management (Jean Todt) with teh exclusion or Michelin teams being nobbled (by getting them to run thu the pit lane each lap). This is because Ferrari knew it was their only chance to win a race that year.


That was an issue effecting one team only, not like 7 teams from a 10 team grid. No one team is goin to ask the whole field to slow down so they can catch up.

No Ferrari doesnt complain it just gets teh FIA to get rid of the one tyre( which Bridgstone were so crap at) per race weekend and retintroduce tyre changes. No doubt part of the deal to get Ferrari to sign up to the FIA F1 agreement rather than the(now defunct) rival 'Manufacters' F1 series.


Correct Michelin went too soft and had no tyres they could use safely thru the final corner. They admitted the fcuked up and accepted the blame.

You really dont know much about racing if u think that Michelin cars and Bridgestone cars can got thru a flat out corner at two significantly different speeds.
A modern F1 car even lifting off is the equivalent of a road going car standing on its brakes and screaching to a halt.

+A car limping back to teh pits with a puncture/ broken wing is different because its normally a single car(by itself) and way off the racing line, not 14 runners every lap.

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Seems to be a lot of rabid Ferrari fans who think Schumacher is a little angel who can do no wrong. One of them even thinks it was an extra special skill that Schumi would be so brave to cheat to pull off a dangerous 'fake crash'.

Schumacher should retire if hes goin to cheat like that to win.

Speed differentials aren't an issue in the many different racing championships that involve multiple classes that have varying speeds. And it's not like the Michelin tyre needed to crawl around at 10MPH or something, nor did they have to remain on racing line at that section of course.

Bottom line is, Michelin didn't have a tyre. They refused to race unless Bridgestone teams handicapped themselves, and of course Bridgestone teams weren't going to do this. And really the FIA were always going to side with the ones that had gone to the trouble of producing safe tyres.

And the switch back to having tyre stops has certainly helped Bridgestone, but there never should have been a 'one tyre' rule in the first place. It was part of a suite of rules the FIA put in that, as in 2003 was partially designed to shake things up and stop Schumacher winning, and it succeeded. Alonso's biggest ally in the championship right now is the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 point system which was introduced to stop Schumacher running away with the title a few years ago. I don't know how anyone can claim Ferrari somehow have the FIA in their pocket.

edwin privitera

steviec wrote:

Speed differentials aren't an issue in the many different racing championships that involve multiple classes that have varying speeds. And it's not like the Michelin tyre needed to crawl around at 10MPH or something, nor did they have to remain on racing line at that section of course.

Bottom line is, Michelin didn't have a tyre. They refused to race unless Bridgestone teams handicapped themselves, and of course Bridgestone teams weren't going to do this. And really the FIA were always going to side with the ones that had gone to the trouble of producing safe tyres.

And the switch back to having tyre stops has certainly helped Bridgestone, but there never should have been a 'one tyre' rule in the first place. It was part of a suite of rules the FIA put in that, as in 2003 was partially designed to shake things up and stop Schumacher winning, and it succeeded. Alonso's biggest ally in the championship right now is the 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 point system which was introduced to stop Schumacher running away with the title a few years ago. I don't know how anyone can claim Ferrari somehow have the FIA in their pocket.

Corben Dallas keeps coming back to you with loads of presumptions and incorrect details. he must have forgotten that because of schumi's driving capabilities in an improved ferrari the interest in the sport was diminishing, so the fia started to apply rules and regulations that would stop ferrari and schumi dominating the formula 1 scene. fia went as far as to introduce the 8 cylinder engine to favour renault bearing in mind that when renault won their last championship, with schumi as their driver, they were the only team with an 8 cylinder engine as opposed to the other teams with a 10 cylinder engine.
very obvious, he cant stand the man nor his red shaded team.

OSiriS

You really do think the F1 world revolves around schumi dont you?:rolleyes: