A calling to the church.

LegacyUser

I believe I have a calling to serve and dedicate my life to God. I have been aware of this for some time but have been afraid to face it. I have been in turmoil about it so much that i now have to make the decision whether or not to follow the calling.
I am in a long term relationship. I know now that I held off on marrriage because of my desire to enter the church. It will break my partners heart and I love her equally so I know i will be shattered too. I will lose my house and all possessions. But I do not care about this. She can have it all. She deserves it because she is such a good person and I know I am about to destroy her world and everything she has put her heart into over the last 7 years.
Is what I am doing so cruel as to be a sin or should I follow the calling. I am not asking for a direct answer but opinions on what repercussions people think it will have on my life. Do you think I am a monster?

Beruthiel

No
You are not a monster.
Sometimes we have to follow our hearts, even at the risk of hurting others.

BoozyBabe

I can't answer your questions but I believe we only have one life & therefore we must follow our hearts

Vas_Guy

Its good to hear that you are not materialistic and that you love your girlfriend, its a tough one to call especially since it will break her heart, whay not try talking to a priest he may be able to help, remeber to study for the priesthood is a hard 6 year stint, marriage is equally as hard, good luck on whatever you decide, but remeber whatever you choose there is no turning back.

aniascor

I think you should contact the vocations director in your Diocese and talk to him about what this means for you. (Contact info here: http://www.vocations.ie/diocdir.html)
Perhaps you need to also investigate the options that are available to you to follow this calling. You still sound unsure about whether this is right for you, so go and talk to people who have been through this and chosen the path you are thinking about. When you are better informed, you will find it easier to make the decision.

Ickle Magoo

If I were your girlfriend I would be devistated in the short term but ultimately I would rather a man was with me unreservedly and without regret than staying with me out of duty when they would rather be somewhere else....

I don't think you are a monster - if someone feels they must follow a calling, leave for another woman, whatever, they should be honest with their partner and follow their heart....if you aren't 100% happy in the relationship then it's not fair on either of you...

Would you consider changing churches to one that allows marriage? So you can follow your devotion to God and continue your relationship with your girlfriend....I'm not a religious person so I'm not sure of the options....that is probably not one of them....anyway, all the best

Moojuice

Stay with your partner. You can still serve the church as a married man. You will be making her happy and your self. I personally think that there is nothing but misery for you if you enter the church. My Girlfriend has travelled to africa and seen the good work that lay people do over there as part of the church you can do the same, here and abroad. Don't do it: you will be ruining your life as well as hers.

Only my personal opinion. But what ever you do, best of luck with it. ICKLES suggestion is the most logical nad is the best of both worlds. Join a church that allows marraige. Better yet just marry and serve god in your own way. You do not need to be a memebr of a hierarchial order to serve god.

Moo

Asiaprod

Fr. Who wrote:

Is what I am doing so cruel as to be a sin or should I follow the calling.

The CoI allow you to be married, as do others. One idea might be to PM Excelsior on the Christianity board for some inside info. He has his calling and is married. Good luck, its a big step.

Dave!

I was gonna say what Moojuice said... Why do you have to join the Roman Catholic church? Why the sudden feeling that you have to follow God? What makes you think that the RC church is the best way to serve him? Can you not stay married and evangelize in your spare time? Can you become a 'freelance' priest...?

I just don't understand the link between sudden religiousness (which is fine) and the Pope. Perhaps you could elaborate a bit more?

Either way, I think your best bet is to talk to as many priests as you can, as I'm sure they can give you some insight. I'm not religious myself, but I've always found priests to be very approachable people about anything.

Hagar

It can't be a sin to follow a calling from god. How could it? But did god say leave your partner? I don't think god made man and woman to live apart so why should they live apart while in his service? Find a way to serve god that does not include destroying two peoples love for each other.

That's about as much help as this atheist can be.

LegacyUser

Ok. Firstly, I am a Roman Catholic ergo this is what I know and so I do not believe changing churches is what I want. This is not a sudden flight of fancy so please do not make it sound like some hare brained idea Ive concocted in the last few months. This has been going on for years. My only defence is that I was weak and I was a coward not to do anything about it. My beloved girlfriend is what prevented me from thinking about it and facing it. I want to be happy with her and I want to have the life that I see my friends having without the feeling that I am turning my face away from what I am meant to be doing. I want children and a loving home and (insert Trainspotting opening lines here!) and not to be wracked with guilt everyday of my life.

I don’t believe I mentioned the Pope?

BoozyBabe

Fr. Who wrote:

Ok. Firstly, I am a Roman Catholic ergo this is what I know and so I do not believe changing churches is what I want. This is not a sudden flight of fancy so please do not make it sound like some hare brained idea Ive concocted in the last few months. This has been going on for years. My only defence is that I was weak and I was a coward not to do anything about it. My beloved girlfriend is what prevented me from thinking about it and facing it. I want to be happy with her and I want to have the life that I see my friends having without the feeling that I am turning my face away from what I am meant to be doing. I want children and a loving home and (insert Trainspotting opening lines here!) and not to be wracked with guilt everyday of my life.

I don’t believe I mentioned the Pope?

No, but if you want all that then (supposedly) you can't be a priest, so you're only real option is to change religion, or to join the lay missionary, or whatever you call it.

latenia

Maybe you could employ your girlfriend as your housekeeper?

turbot

I suggest you read:

- The DaVinci code
- Jesus & The Goddess
- The Widows Son, by Robert Anton Wilson
- Ishtar Rising, by Robert Anton Wilson
- Conversations with God Series
- Ask & It is Given by Esther Hicks

At this point, if you are still convinced that being a priest constitutes "serving God" then maybe that is your path.

It's my personal opinion that you'll do more for the World and divinity everywhere, by living a worthwhile life and making your girlfriend feel like a Goddess, instead of falling into the ideas projected by the RC church.

Aside from which, it would also seem that for many, the perception of the church in peoples eyes has got so bad, if you feel you have something worth sharing, the position of a priest may only attain you a limited audience.

LegacyUser

Maybe you could employ your girlfriend as your housekeeper?

LOL.

I know I cant have it all.
Thank you all for your help and angles on the senario. My eyes are tired looking at it so its good to hear other peoples opinions.

Ickle Magoo

If you are unable to compromise and join a church that allows it's leaders to marry/have relationships and children then you have two options....your girl or the church........you say you held off marriage because you knew you had a calling....are you sure you aren't holding off joining the priesthood because you want your girl & the "other" life? It doesn't sound to me like you are 100% sure one way or the other...maybe a chat with your priest would help? If you really want children and to share your life with a woman and have a family then I think joining the priesthood is not the life for you.....is it not possible to play a larger role in your church without taking the extreme step of becoming a priest?

Vas_Guy

turbot wrote:

I suggest you read:

- The DaVinci code
- Jesus & The Goddess
- The Widows Son, by Robert Anton Wilson
- Ishtar Rising, by Robert Anton Wilson
- Conversations with God Series
- Ask & It is Given by Esther Hicks

How do you expect him to make up his mind from reading fiction

the perception of the church in peoples eyes has got so bad, if you feel you have something worth sharing, the position of a priest may only attain you a limited audience.

Your painting all priests with the one brush, there are bad apples in every barrel, there are bad gardas, doctors, lawyers,etc yet we do not look at them all as being bad as we do with the clergy.

panda100

Moojuice wrote:

Stay with your partner. You can still serve the church as a married man. You will be making her happy and your self. I personally think that there is nothing but misery for you if you enter the church. My Girlfriend has travelled to africa and seen the good work that lay people do over there as part of the church you can do the same, here and abroad. Don't do it: you will be ruining your life as well as hers.


Moo

I have to admit in agreeing with this.I am also a roman Catholic and have once or twice or toyed with the idea of entering a religous life (even though my friends would laugh at this:) ) but I now know that becoming a nun or a priest most definatly is not the only way to be apart of religous life. Your life will be very tough if you become a preist too. There was only something like three people ordained last year and you really are on call 24 hours a day 365 days a year and it will not be up to you where your stationed,with no patner or loved one for support when you are called up at 4 in the morining to give the last rights for the 10th time that day.I greatly admire anyone who wants to enter this life but are you 100% positive you can do this without the support of a patner you love and who have leant on for the last 7 years?

Also maybe ask the same question in the christianity forum,you may get a very different response.

LegacyUser

It can't be a sin to follow a calling from god. How could it? But did god say leave your partner? I don't think god made man and woman to live apart so why should they live apart while in his service? Find a way to serve god that does not include destroying two peoples love for each other.

This is a major point of logic.

I tried to put this on the Christianity forum but you need an identity to put it up and Im not willing to risk my girlfriend seeing my name beside this. She already thinks Im having an affair because I spend so much time in church praying for guidence! (joke):)

Would someone be so kind as to copy and paste the OP into the Christianity forum please.

DOLEMAN

Fr. Who wrote:

I am not asking for a direct answer but opinions on what repercussions people think it will have on my life. Do you think I am a monster?

Just my opinion now... I'm not trying to offend. Feel free to dismiss as the rant from the unholy.

You have a lovely partner and a reasonably happy, stable life.

You want to give this up to dedicate your life to a fairly flakey theory? It's so amazingly extremely likely that Jesus was just a normal (good) bloke who had nothing to do with God and who didn't rise from the dead etc.

Going by what we know about the world today, it does seem like a bit of a crazy theory.

You will need to live a very unnatural life as a single man, just because of some nonsense rule the catholic church invented a few hundred years ago (out of selfish reasons.)

I just don't get it.

Why do you have to be an extremeist on this? Why can't you find some middle ground? Do you really think God would want you to stop loving a wonderful woman and live an unnatural life? I seriously doubt it.

Is it that you want to help people or that you want to wear a priests uniform? If it's just about wearing the uniform, for the love of God don't become a priest! Get help instead.

If it's about helping people and leading a "decent" life, I don't see how becoming a priest has to do with that?

meepins

I had a less abrasive post typed out but I've scrapped it because..

all religion basically disgust me and I find it incredible that someone who has been involved long term with a woman and has, I assume, some perspective on the world would give it up for essentially a bunch of fairy stories.

Hope you come to your senses.Regards.

CathyMoran

I had the calling too, though I considered changing to Church of Ireland because I am a woman...in the end of the day I am glad that I did not follow it, though I was in turmoil for years about it. I do not consider it turning my back on God, I am mearly following a different path but God is still in my life. All the best with your choice, I am sure that your gf will understand no matter what you do.

Manolo Blahnik

meepins wrote:

I had a less abrasive post typed out but I've scrapped it because..

all religion basically disgust me and I find it incredible that someone who has been involved long term with a woman and has, I assume, some perspective on the world would give it up for essentially a bunch of fairy stories.

Hope you come to your senses.Regards.

That's very true you only live once no point in limiting it

but the sad thing is once these people are brain washed it very hard/impossible for them to come to their senses

ST*

Fr. Who wrote:

Is what I am doing so cruel as to be a sin or should I follow the calling. I am not asking for a direct answer but opinions on what repercussions people think it will have on my life. Do you think I am a monster?

No you are not a monster. You are human, with human needs. Have you discussed this with this lady? It may be upsetting for her, but she can't fault you for it either. You should probably put this off for a while until it becomes crystal clear as to you what direction you are going to take.

Have you considered a compromise? It's not the same thing I know, but if you were to stay with this lady, and work closely with the church - fundraising events etc, pilgrimages.. would this be enough for you?

nesf

I linked to this thread in Christianity. Hopefully a few of the posters from there will offer their advice to you on here.


Personally, I'd go with the lay community suggestion. I don't think priesthood should be your only consideration here.

BrianCalgary

First off a little bashing to those who used this as an opportunity to bash Catholocism and the priesthood. Manolo Blahnik, meepins, DOLEMAN, turbot your responses have nothing to do with the OP and I find them to be quite out of place. I think apologies might be in order.

Secondly to Fr. Who:

I was in the same boat as you many years ago, knowing that ministry was in my future somewhere. I was raised Anglican and became a Catholic. My wife was raised Catholic. To enter the ministry at the time would have meant the priesthood and forsaking the most beautiful of God's creation. We got married and have three beautiful teenage kids, we attend an evangelical church and I am able to do lay ministry and have been able to work on a degree in ministry. We are currently going through a process to become missionaries and help pastor a church plant.

God's plan for my life has unfolded this way, I don't know if I have obeyed Him every step of the way, but I can at least see the fruit of my lay ministry.

I agree fully with Asiaprod, excelsior would be a great person to PM and have a chat with regarding you future.

May God Bless you in what He has in store for you. Keep us posted.

Michael G

I was in a situation very like yours fifteen years ago. I didn't have the courage to make the choice. As a result my relationship died, I hurt (badly) the woman I still love and I regret not having taken the path that I should have taken. As a Catholic I could not have become a protestant minister, because I would not have believed in what I was doing, and no kind of lay work would have been a substitute. Please go for what you believe you are called to do.

Sapien

I think sacrificing an important relationship to become a priest is an act of bounding narcissism motivated by spiritual misguidance. Qui bono?

I also think ruminating on such a decision in an internet bulletin board is distasteful and disrespectful to the third party, anonymous as she may be.

Asiaprod

Sapien wrote:

I also think ruminating on such a decision in an internet bulletin board is distasteful and disrespectful to the third party, anonymous as she may be.

Agreed, which is why I recommended taking it to PMs with the great one:). IMO, It is not really a subject for general debate, though I am sure the OP appreciated all the efforts put into replies

Puck

I'm a bit concerned. Does the fact that this thread has been moved to the Christianity forum mean that Fr. Who won't be able to post without an account anymore? Because that would be bad. [Edit: False alarm ]

By the way, I've dedicated my life to God (well I try). I work in a video game shop and as a webmonkey. My latest "ministry work" involved fixing a serial cable with a kitchen knife so a presentation could go ahead in my church. Lots of ways to serve God, but you must decide for yourself what you must do.

Nevyn

The thread exsists in both places and I will be facliating the posts.

DOLEMAN

BrianCalgary wrote:

First off a little bashing to those who used this as an opportunity to bash Catholocism and the priesthood. Manolo Blahnik, meepins, DOLEMAN, turbot your responses have nothing to do with the OP and I find them to be quite out of place. I think apologies might be in order.

It's not catholic bashing. If you cannot look at both sides of an argument, then there is no argument. He wanted opinions and we gave him opinions. I know it's hard for you to accept that a lot of people think the Catholic religion is nonsense. But that doesn't mean we should pretend it's not, just to please people like you.

What he is considering doing is very serious, might destroy his partners life, might destroy his. He should hear every argument for and against.

/edit: I would hope if I ever posted here that I wanted to become a Scientologist, people would point out why they think it's an awful idea. What this guy wants to do is even more serious than becoming a Scientologist. He's planning on giving up his natural life for something which is more than likely complete bollox. (No offence, just my opinion.)

Puck

Ah Cool, thanks Thaed, post edited.

Nevyn

DOLEMAN I suggest that you read the charter here in the christianity forum
it differs significantly in a few important ways from the PI forum.

Sorry to the mods here for the headache of the posts that stray over the line here that didnt in PI.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Manolo Blahnik wrote:

That's very true you only live once

Back that up? ...Evidence? That's an awfully heavy statement to be throwing out there without so much as a why or how toward justifying it. It's not valid.

turbot wrote:

I suggest you read:

- The DaVinci Code

:rolleyes: Oh dear. You have my sympathies.
Dan Brown's a mediocre writer and that book's a fanciful load of nonsense to boot. Angels & Demons FTW, anyway.


DOLEMAN, if you posted saying you actually wanted to become a Scientologist, why would it be an awful idea? It would be, after all, what you wanted, wouldn't it?
To quote someone on an internet forum:

Malono Blahnik wrote:

That's very true you only live once no point in limiting it

If his statement is true then there would be every reason for you to pursue life as a Scientologist if it was what you wanted.

Why should people do anything other than simply what they want, I wonder?



OP, I suggest you convene with the relevant authorities. I think you should be honest with your GF as soon as possible. If she's sensible and loves you then she'll only try to help you to come to the right desicion for you. I know that if I was in your position I would seek some form of compromise that would allow me to play a more active part of the church and marry the woman I loved.

Best o' luck!

robindch

> I want children and a loving home and and not to be wracked with
> guilt everyday of my life.

Sounds like you may have navigated yourself into a position where you'll have feelings of guilt one way or the other, unless you choose to change your beliefs.

Do bear in mind, though, that the Vatican began to prohibit the marriage of priests only around 900 years ago, so your belief that you can't be both married and a priest is a false dilemma specifically designed by the church to prevent your situation from arising. The bible, on the other hand, makes it quite clear that the church's priests + bishops could be married:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%203:2;&version=9;

The church, it's generally agreed by all concerned (including the church), prohibited marriage in order to prevent any resulting offspring from declaring rights of inheritance upon church property. It's the institution of the church which is winning in all of this, not the humans who prop it up.

But ultimately, with your beliefs as they are at the moment, the choice is yours and it's an unpleasantly stark one -- whether to propagate humanity or propagate an institution.

panda100

DOLEMAN wrote:

It's not catholic bashing. If you cannot look at both sides of an argument, then there is no argument. He wanted opinions and we gave him opinions. I know it's hard for you to accept that a lot of people think the Catholic religion is nonsense. But that doesn't mean we should pretend it's not, just to please people like you.

What he is considering doing is very serious, might destroy his partners life, might destroy his. He should hear every argument for and against.

/edit: I would hope if I ever posted here that I wanted to become a Scientologist, people would point out why they think it's an awful idea. What this guy wants to do is even more serious than becoming a Scientologist. He's planning on giving up his natural life for something which is more than likely complete bollox. (No offence, just my opinion.)

First things first whatever he decides to do he will not be destroying anyones life and thats an awful thing to say. In the ops first post he was worried that by joining the priesthood he would be doing an evil act by turning his back on his girlfirend of seven years. OP whatever you decide to do you are not being evil or 'destroying' your patners life. you are being true too yourself and in the long run that will only benefit you and your girlfriend.
Since this is the christian forum I just want to ask....you said you've been praying a lot about this.When your praying what does your heart tell you to do?Is it filled with doubts or is there a clear message to join the priesthood?

humbert

Personally I'd say it's quite likely you're postponing marrage because you're scared and a calling to the church is more a desire for a simpler safer life.

panda100

humbert wrote:

Personally I'd say it's quite likely you're postponing marrage because you're scared and a calling to the church is more a desire for a simpler safer life.

Becoming a priest is definatly NOT an easy road and should not be viewed as a simple life. As I have said before you are on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year for deaths,family crisis,church crisis etc.I just couldnt stomach all the funerals and last rights Id have to give or attend if I was a priest....no way hose!!

humbert

panda100 wrote:

Becoming a priest is definatly NOT an easy road and should not be viewed as a simple life. As I have said before you are on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year for deaths,family crisis,church crisis etc.I just couldnt stomach all the funerals and last rights Id have to give or attend if I was a priest....no way hose!!

I'm not suggesting that the life of a priest isn't hard work just that it's more straight forward than and independent life. I can appreciate the desire to help people but there are more effective ways to do that.

pbsuxok1znja4r

humbert wrote:

I'm not suggesting that the life of a priest isn't hard work just that it's more straight forward than and independent life. I can appreciate the desire to help people but there are more effective ways to do that.

Until you've lived your life as both a priest and not as a priest, you don't know what you're talking about. Haha I love the way you portray being a priest as not being independent. He never said his desire was solely based on "wanting to help people", either. I'd love to hear your suggestions for the most effective ways to help people, also.

OP, there are sensible people in this thread and there are also people full of nonsense. It's best that you take your advice instead from people close to you and from people in authority on the subject. See the parish priest, etc.
Yes, I do realise the irony of my advising the OP after telling him not to take advice from anyone in the thread.
Again, good luck.

humbert

scouser.tommy wrote:

Until you've lived your life as both a priest and not as a priest, you don't know what you're talking about. Haha I love the way you portray being a priest as not being independent. He never said his desire was solely based on "wanting to help people", either. I'd love to hear your suggestions for the most effective ways to help people, also.

That's a very simple argument, too commonly used by very simple people who would prefer to discredit someone elses opinion than express one of their own, but since a) the life of a priest isn't a closely guarded secret, I've been to a catholic primary and secondary school and have known more than one priest as is quite common, and b) this thread is about becoming a priest so putting forward an opinion based on the knowledge one has is perfectly legitimate.

It is my opinion, and only that, that it is unlikely that God is talking/calling to many of the people that think he is calling/talking to them and therefore it is healthy when ones heart is telling them to do one thing and ones head is telling them to do another to at the very least look at the tangible things in life and make sure it is not these worries and fears that are causing one to be biased. The OP has suggested that this is not the case and I accept that.

On the last point a priests life is not independent it is governed by the church which the priest serves as one other poster mentioned 24/7, there are very rigid rules and, the one thing that would appeal to me, a lack of competition/the pressure to seek promotion, which is one thing that really separates it from the "real world".

I don't believe that there is any one most effective way to help people but a more pertinent question is do you think that becoming a priest is?

I realise I've been blunt, it isn't my intention to offend:o

MeditationMom

Fr.Who
So much love I hear, for your girlfriend, your church, your devotion to truth and a calling. Very difficult time for you and I will pray for your clarity. Since there is so much love for your girlfriend I would suggest to allow her to help you with the decision. She will be honored if you approach it right. You are NOT cheating on her with another women. You need to be honest with yourselves though whether there are sexual issues. Do you long to be celebate, for the right or wrong reasons, for example? If celebacy is not a longing, it is a big mistake to "make this sacrifice for God" a huge, huge spiritual misinterpretaion of what sexuality is in a spiritual context.

Tell her of your love for her, your strange feeling of a calling, not knowing whether it is genuine or false. Ask for her help - don't understimate the power for insight of the female intuition. Ask her for suggestions of who to talk to. Beg for her understanding. Cry about your confusion and be honest with all of that. When trying to figure this out, don't you think you in the least need to pass this test of honesty and courage with the one you love?

UU

Well, it's your choice really but I think you're crazy! :rolleyes:

There are people who are much closer to the divine without having to be a priest such as my grandmother. She is holy but not fundamentalist as she lives a good life of helping others and just trying to live by Jesus' teachings. It's a risk you'd have to take. Could you not try it out first and see how you like it? That's one major disadvantage about someone being Catholic in that Protestants can be married and be a minister at the same time. Sure the first pope was Peter who was married. The only reason why priests can't marry is due to selfish and materialistic reasons of the RC Church (and I'm not being anti-Catholic for those who like to make others out to be in the wrong, I'm just being truthful).

arctic lemur

Fr. Who wrote:

Ok. Firstly, I am a Roman Catholic ergo this is what I know and so I do not believe changing churches is what I want. This is not a sudden flight of fancy so please do not make it sound like some hare brained idea Ive concocted in the last few months. This has been going on for years. My only defence is that I was weak and I was a coward not to do anything about it. My beloved girlfriend is what prevented me from thinking about it and facing it. I want to be happy with her and I want to have the life that I see my friends having without the feeling that I am turning my face away from what I am meant to be doing. I want children and a loving home and (insert Trainspotting opening lines here!) and not to be wracked with guilt everyday of my life.

I don’t believe I mentioned the Pope?

Not being superficial or anything but did you consider lay ministry. I did my thesis on it and there are many vacancies for parish co-ordinators, next best thing to being a priest. i wish you luck in your choice and i hope things work out. You sound a sincere ,decent chap. If its meant to be , its meant to be.

arctic lemur

UU wrote:

Well, it's your choice really but I think you're crazy! :rolleyes:

There are people who are much closer to the divine without having to be a priest such as my grandmother. She is holy but not fundamentalist as she lives a good life of helping others and just trying to live by Jesus' teachings. It's a risk you'd have to take. Could you not try it out first and see how you like it? That's one major disadvantage about someone being Catholic in that Protestants can be married and be a minister at the same time. Sure the first pope was Peter who was married. The only reason why priests can't marry is due to selfish and materialistic reasons of the RC Church (and I'm not being anti-Catholic for those who like to make others out to be in the wrong, I'm just being truthful).

I think the reasons priests cant marry is cause the church is seen as the bride of Christ and the priest is her groom so to speak.

hairyheretic

arctic lemur wrote:

I think the reasons priests cant marry is cause the church is seen as the bride of Christ and the priest is her groom so to speak.

I don't think so. From what I remember, that law was brought in during the middle ages, due to the ammount of nepotism there was amongst churchmen.

arctic lemur

I ahgree with you hairy heretic but the Bride and Groom analogy comes forth strongly in systematic theology.

Schillebeeckx says that, first in the fourth century came a law that forbade a married priest from having sexual intercourse the night before celebrating the Eucharist. However, when the Western Church began celebrating a daily mass, abstinence became a permanent factor for married priests.

"At the origin of the law of abstinence, and later the law of celibacy," said Schillebeeckx, "we find an antiquated anthropology and ancient view of sexuality." (ibid) Rice follows with a quotation from St. Jerome which expressed the views of both pagans and Christians at the time that, "All sexual intercourse is impure." (ibid)

Because the resulting implication of a priest living with his wife like a brother led many priests into "deplorable situations," in 1139, the Second Lateran Council forbade the marriage of priests altogether and declared all existing marriages involving priests null and void. (ibid)

"One does not approach the alter and consecrated vessels with soiled hands," had been the pagan view and then became the cornerstone for compulsory Christian celibacy. (ibid) Other not-necessarily concurrent or chronological developments also contributed to the establishment of the celibacy requirement for catholic priests. More bishops began to be chosen from the ranks of monks who had already taken monastic vows of chastity. Another factor was an economic development as the Church began acquiring his own property. According to Rice, there was a real danger that legitimate children of priests could inherit and deprive the Church of its land. At the time, common law prevented illegitimate children from inheriting property.

In reality, the 1139 law did not enact celibacy but merely changed marriage into concubinage. Rice quotes from a document on celibacy prepared by church historian Hubert Jedin for the Second Vatican Council:

"It would be a mistake to imagine that these permanent concubines, especially in the countryside, would have aroused a lot of scandal," said Jedin. "We know of many cases where these `keepers of concubines' possessed the sympathies of their parishioners and were looked upon as good and virtuous pastors." (ibid page 162)

No finer mind than Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologia II-IIa, 88, 11)had provided stubborn opposition to those who saw celibacy rulings as part of divine law. Thomas contended that the celibacy requirement for Catholic priests was merely Church law that could be reversed by any time by papal or conciliar authority. (MacGregor pages 108-109)

When the Reformation indirectly brought forth the Council of Trent in the mid 1500's, the Roman Catholic Church reformed itself and remodeled the priesthood to its present form. Not only did the Council reiterate the Church's prohibition of a married clergy but also instituted reforms to try to insure the implementation of the decrees of the Church on this subject.

Since the Council of Trent, celibacy has remained Church law, specifically upheld by Pope Paul VI in his 1967 encyclical Sacerdotalis Caelibatus. Despite opposition from half of the bishops attending the Synod of 1971, requests from bishops in the United States, France, and Latin America in 1988, Pope John Paul II did not budge from his opposition to a married priesthood.

BrianCalgary

Thanks for that Artic.

Currently though our local parish priest gives as the reasoning: Christ wasn't married so we aren't. End of story.

He would then go on to argue that you can't serve both family and flock with 100% dedication.

1 Corinthians 7:32-34

32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided.

Not that I agree with this stance, as Paul is giving it as his opinion and not of God. (verse 25)

MeditationMom

Brian, I find myself agreeing with your local parish priest and Paul. The devotioin to God, and service to him and his children, would have to be such, that a normal married life would seem an unwelcome complication. Nothing wrong with marriage, love, romance, passion etc, but it does tend to make life busy and complicated. Celibacy goes against nature, also, and one better be quite sure about this calling, or would end up living a hypocritical life.

So far, we are only discussing the pros and cons of becoming a priest, monk or lay minister. This can go on forever. How can we give advise, though, as to determining how one should go about evaluating what is a true calling?
What are the questions one should ask oneself?

Do you agree or disagree with my earlier suggestion of starting by being courageous and honest with the girlfriend, whose life would also be affected by this decisioin, courage and honesty being qualities one would have to have in abundance to follow the priesthood. As I have found in life, when the truth is out, everyhting shifts and one gets closer to resolution.

UU

arctic lemur wrote:

I think the reasons priests cant marry is cause the church is seen as the bride of Christ and the priest is her groom so to speak.

Well, I've never heard of that before so to speak. We all know the real reasons why they can't marry and procreate. It's for financial reasons. In the Middle Ages, the Church were losing out on money because when the priest died, his wife and family would inherit his wealth. To avoid this happening, the Church leaders decided to prohibit priests from marrying and having children but to live a life of celibacy (even though the Bible forbids this!) so that they could become more wealthy.

I think a priest having to live a life of being denied a partner, sex and/or procreation is very unnatural. Protestant ministers can have partners and children and most of them aren't any less distracted from their spiritual life than their Catholic neighbours. A certain amount of spirituality exists in the bond of true love between two people.

This fella is very lucky to find the girl he loves. Many people never get this chance in life. Becoming a priest doesn't make anybody any more spiritual. In a lot of Catholic congregations, it is the elderly women who seem to be the most holy from my observations.