Honda Type-R's

DubNside

Anyone have advice/expierience with Honda Type-R's, i.e Civic's and Integra's?

I have been looking at 97 and 98's of both models, but the average price appears to be about €11,000! A lot for a car of that year. Although I mean of course i know they come with 170-210BHP and look great but, are they worth it?

In terms of 1. Insurance 2.Value 3. Resale Value 4.Reliabilty/Servicing?

Kimbot

My GF has a 96 ITR and its a beast of a car!!
You can pick up one second hand cheaper if you look around, but if going for an INtegra 98 is better, bigger wheels as standard, HID lights as standard, bigger brakes, better inlet manifold, and a few other features!!
I am servicing her car myself over the weekend!! They are not too bad to sort once you have an idea of what you are doing. Pop a post in www.manic-motorz.com cos alot of them on there have tyre R's or experience with type R's!!

kdevitt

DubNside wrote:

In terms of 1. Insurance 2.Value 3. Resale Value 4.Reliabilty/Servicing?

1 - Not worth it
2 - Not worth it
3 - Worth it
4 - Worth it

bspoke

Would this interest you at all

Honda civic 1996 with 1998 Civic type-r Engine. 102k.
Car was imported in sept 05 and I bought it straight away..... I had just bought a SiR and took this for a spin, deposited straight away lol

Going through midlife crises atm so want a convertable.

Spec

EK4
B16b type-r engine

193.1 BHP Proven twice
148.9 Lbs Torque Proven twice.

Full Spoon streetwise exhaust system,
Spoon 4-2-1 manifold (heatwrapped),
HKS induction kit with custom ram and turbine,
Spoon throttle body
NGK iridium plugs and NGK leads
Uprated oil pump B18c
Uprated fuel pump B18c
Apexi ECU and power fc commander,
4.9 final drive
Excedy racing clutch
Lighten flywheel
Oil pressure and oil temp guages
buddyclub coilovers
Volks rays TE37’s 15” lightweight wheels with brand new tyres
after market Steering wheel
Front and rear strut bars
EK9 front lights
Jdm rear lights
Clear side repeators
Spoon FRP bonnet
EK9 grill
type-r splitter rear
JDM splitter front
Bride bucket racing seat Driver side
Bucket seat in passinger.
Type r gear knob etc..
Clifford concept 650 with prox sensors and blackjax
Pioneer mep7700 head unit
Alpine front components and tweeters
Alpine Amp
Pioneer rear speakers.

Very very quick car and prob the torqueist hondas Ive even seen or drove.... Evo beater

Looking for 12,500euro.

I know the owner fairly well and the car has been very well looked after. All of the work since it arrived from Japan has been carried out by Tuning Factory (Honda gods) and it is generally regarded to be one of the finest examples of civics going at the moment

Kimbot

Have to agree with Bspoke here, that is one savage quick car!!

bspoke

Quick isnt the word. When that thing hits vtec it makes baby jesus cry

DubNside

Not sure yet at all about the Type-R's, i did have a VTi, Irish car which was pretty good.
Im just worried about getting a modified one through the NCT.

I was considering insuring through 123.ie, for the flat rate of €990.

bspoke

I think (but dont quote me on it yet) that this one is NCT'd. All the work has been professionally carried out - its not just some guy ordering everything off ebay and slapping it on himself. Most of the work was done in japan and everything else was done by Tuning Factory.

This thing is seriously quick and will embarrass many bigger engined cars. It also has the advantage that it is a type r engine in what may as well be a 1.4 body so you get that sleeper aspect but also it doesnt stand out to thieving scum.

Then again the clifford with proximity sensors and blackjack would see off 99% of the thieves out there

Kimbot

Modified cars can go through the NCT no bothers mate! If you have a de-cat just pop the cat back in!!
Pop over to manic-motors and take alook alot of people there have modified vtecs and have not had a bother getting it through the NCT!!

bspoke

Yeah while you are over on Manic look up a guy called Buzz. Thats his car and he will be more than happy to answer any questions you have about it.

DubNside

Thanks for the advise, i guess the only other worry is that if i had to re-sell a type-r you'd only get enthusiast willing to buy it.

Who would be the best to buy off? And dya reckon insurance companys such as 123.ie would not insure an import?

I know of someone who bought a used 1.5Vtec from Tuning factory and the engine blew on it after a couple of months!

bspoke

As with any sports car you will generaly only get enthuasists buying them. How many N/A 1.6 cars can you name that are capable of pushing 200 bhp though.

TF dont sell cars they only work on them so i cant understand that bit

Kimbot

Not really, alot of people would buy a type r for its looks mate!!

Depends, some come in from Japan in a bad way!! Its just luck of the draw!! As I said pop over to manic, there you will find stuff like tell tale signs of wear and what not!! Also there is a full list there of insurance companies that insure performance cars!!

Well TF are Vtec specialists!! It could have blown from many different things, oil too low, not maintained right! If you are going to TF they do a discount for manic members

Kimbot

bspoke wrote:

TF dont sell cars they only work on them so i cant understand that bit

It could have just had the stickers on the car!!

bspoke

Or the owner could have had TF do some work and then ran his engine into the ground

Kimbot

Exactly!! Like any car, if you want it to keep going then you have to maintain it right!!

And one important thing with a vtec engine is MAKE SURE THERE IS ENOUGH OIL IN IT I cannot stress that enough, no oil and the engine goes boom, vtec runs off OIL!!

DubNside

bspoke wrote:

TF dont sell cars they only work on them so i cant understand that bit

This would have been a few years back ,it was a standard 1.5sohc that they had done up and sold on, i also seen them trying to sell a Civic with a 1.8 integra engine!

Wonder how easy it is to upgrade the engine? from a 1.6 to 1.8...

Kimbot

Its pretty easy with honda's!! You can have a 1.6 head with a 1.8 bottom block and all 1.8 internal in the engine!!

Henry Ford III

How are the insurers on this car and all it's mods?

DubNside

Sounds good, wonder what the general cost would be?

Wibbs

The ITR is a little cracker of a car(have one myself). Bulletproof reliability, and great handling. It's a bit raw though as it's pretty much pure car without all the comforts you may be used to. If you can afford it, go for the 98 spec onwards, it's a better car. The pre 98's are much cheaper. As for buying, it's not the "luck of the draw". Insist on a japanese auction report as there are a lot of clocked dogs out there. I wouldn't buy without one tbh. That will tell you a lot about the car, or do as I did and bring one in yourself. It'll save you money(especially with the yen at the minute) and you'll know the car's history. There are many sites out there that will buy at auction on your behalf. VRT seems to be getting bigger every month with these though. Check first.

You could just get the standard 1.8 vtec integra as the power difference isn't too much, the insurance will be less and they have more comforts. Put it another way, you'll sooner or later get into trouble if you drive a type r to it's limits.

TheBazman

I drive a 350Z and my insurance is €2100 with St Pauls (thru' Glennons) I think St. Pauls will insure most things

Henry Ford III

They insure me.

unkel

That '96 Civic looks immaculate. No offence, but €12.5k for a 10 year old small family hatch is just plain silly imho. And it's white

Joeface

I agree Unkel.

Integra's are excellent , own one at the mo , not an R-Type ( wish i did but if i did i would be dead) Only thing I can see wrong with the Integra is the Back tends to be or feel very light and will catch u out at some stage in a bend. other that that I cant fault any thing .And for non Turbo charged engines OMG there un real.
Getting it straight form Import would prob be the way to go rather than buying second hand, No offence to car modders but Import parts are hard enough to get with out someone having modded the car before you. AND IF U GET ONE DONT BODY KIT IT , Integras dont need it they Look good enough all ready

also , Fully Comp insuranse €600 , For an Rtype was quoted €900.

Kimbot

unkel wrote:

That '96 Civic looks immaculate. No offence, but €12.5k for a 10 year old small family hatch is just plain silly imho. And it's white

Unkel, for €12.5k its well worth it, the spec sheet is higher than any other Civic around, It is one of the fastest in the country and is only a 1.6!!

unkel

jonny24ie wrote:

Unkel, for €12.5k its well worth it, the spec sheet is higher than any other Civic around, It is one of the fastest in the country and is only a 1.6!!

Well you're probably right saying it is worth it because someone will actually pay that price. Supply and demand I suppose. Still mad money imho

One could get a good M3 for similar money...

Kimbot

You could get a M3 but if you were into performance and wanted a Civic then this is the car for you!!

DubNside

unkel wrote:

One could get a good M3 for similar money...

M3 for 12.5k! maybe a 92 model!!?

DubNside

Just had a look around Carzone, I reckon I may go for a 1.6VTi Irish car, I have an old DC sports manifold, and ill probably get an Induction kit... anyone recommend where i can get a good kit from with the pipe?

bspoke

Joeface wrote:

Getting it straight form Import would prob be the way to go rather than buying second hand, No offence to car modders but Import parts are hard enough to get with out someone having modded the car before you.

Eh??? Parts are not difficult to get at all. There are tons of places selling top quality jap parts over here (tuning factory, couture auto) its juat a csae of actually reasearching the parts and how they affect the car rather than buying something cause its got a spoon or mugen sticker on it.

unkel

DubNside wrote:

M3 for 12.5k! maybe a 92 model!!?

I'd expect to get a decent '96 M3 for that kinda money

DubNside

unkel wrote:

I'd expect to get a decent '96 M3 for that kinda money

Theres v few available, seen a 95 for €11.5k

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=427795

unkel

DubNside wrote:

Theres v few available

You're right there. UK import is a good alternative. Just checked OMSP is €8.8k and VRT is €2.6k on a '96 M3 Evolution 3.2 so pretty reasonable

STATISTICAL CODE: 40885292
MAKE: BMW
MODEL: M3
VERSION: E36 EVOLUTION 02DR / SPORTS COUPE (NON-CONVERTIBLE) / MANUAL / PETROL ONLY /
MILEAGE: 80000 MILES

The information requested in respect of the vehicle shown is indicated below.
DATE OF FIRST REGISTRATION(MM/YY): JANUARY 1996
OPEN MARKET SELLING PRICE:
(applicable on enquiry date) €8762
RATE OF TAX: 30.0%
VEHICLE REGISTRATION TAX:
(payable on enquiry date) €2628

SouperComputer

Ohh, that M3 is a lot of car for the money!

/calls bank manager.

Rudolph Claus

That '96 Civic looks immaculate. No offence, but €12.5k for a 10 year old small family hatch is just plain silly imho. And it's white

Such a thing to say! Its not just a white old small family hatch, its a 2dr civic TYPE R. You dont buy one of these for your family. Most people driving them wouldnt even have a family. And all(majority) type R`s are white, its their trademark. Its a class colour of white for class cars.

My friend has an ITR 96model and its just sheer class. The look of it i nstandard is class with the big spoiler and its fast as fook. Anyone that doesnt like Type R`s isnt into cars.

Honda arent making the cars it used to, civics/integras/crx`s/preludes anymore. Are they still making a 1.6Integra, is there a 2006 one or are they just making type R Dc5`s now?
If you want to experience these cars, now is the time cause they wont be around in a few years as abundant they are now. You only live once, buy a Type R if yo u can afford it.You can always sell it i na year. All hondas of this era are bulletproof, quite a reputation considering the power they produce. Power/reliability and some economy, pity more manufacturers cant follow suit.

Financially i agree 12,500 is too much for even a 1996 CTR but you`ll get one under 10 if you look. 96ITR`s are making around 10,000. The civics of the same year seem to make more money.

Go to the importers on the cruiseirl.com site, Gt-central will get you a decent Civic type R for decent price and service.

unkel

Nuttzy wrote:

Such a thing to say!

Ok, to the Honda fans my comments might have looked a bit blasphemous. Apologies!

My point still stands though that why the hell would you get a 1.6 Civic Type-R if you can run a 3.2 M3 Evo for similar money?

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Ok, to the Honda fans my comments might have looked a bit blasphemous. Apologies!

My point still stands though that why the hell would you get a 1.6 Civic Type-R if you can run a 3.2 M3 Evo for similar money?

Unkel, most young people that would be looking at the Civic 1.6 Type R may not be able to afford the insurance on a 3.2 litre M3 or the high road tax and fuel bills. While the Civic Type R 1.6 generally may not have the flat out performance of an M3, it is relatively cheap to put on the road, cheap to maintain and very easy to modify.

Wibbs

Nuttzy wrote:

And all(majority) type R`s are white, its their trademark. Its a class colour of white for class cars.

Personally I prefer them in black or red(both civic and integra). Whites a bit obvious. You an even get em in yellow or silver(rare as rocking horse droppings though)

My friend has an ITR 96model and its just sheer class.

I've a 98 one and class in the looks dept is not a word I'd use tbh. It's not too tacky though in standard trim. Fiddle with it too much though and it'll look like a right lemon.

Anyone that doesnt like Type R`s isnt into cars.

Agree with you there. Even if you don't like them per se, they should be appreciated for the engine technology alone. The engine makes anything alfa have ever even dreamed of, look like the wrong end of the tractor market.

Honda arent making the cars it used to, civics/integras/crx`s/preludes anymore.

Nail on the head there.

If you want to experience these cars, now is the time cause they wont be around in a few years as abundant they are now.

Very true, They'll all too soon end up over modified and screwed up by the boy racer brigade as their price drops. That said the price has actually been going up recently in Japan, espesially for the rarer colours.

Financially i agree 12,500 is too much for even a 1996 CTR but you`ll get one under 10 if you look. 96ITR`s are making around 10,000. The civics of the same year seem to make more money.

I wouldn't go near a 96 type r for that kind of money unless it was seriously tricked out or a rare colour. That's mad money. Here's a nice one for much less http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=429538 Lots of nice oily bits and he has the original auction grade 4.5(which is very high). Do not buy without an auction report. It will at the very least have been clocked. Many dealers are asking that now because the VRT on these cars has gone through the roof. I got mine 4 months ago. If I'd waited I'd have had to pay a further 1000 odd quid. Robbin bstards. Put it this way, do yourself a favour and bring it in yourself. Put it another way I got my 98(auction grade 4.5, 30,000 actual mileage) for just over 10,000 fully paid up.

Gt-central will get you a decent Civic type R for decent price and service.

Do they give you the auction report?

unkel wrote:

My point still stands though that why the hell would you get a 1.6 Civic Type-R if you can run a 3.2 M3 Evo for similar money?

I get your point. They're two different beasts and for that money I'd prefer a good civic(well teg tbh) than a possibly dodgy beemer. I've driven and owned many cars in my all too long driving career and I personally would prefer the Integra to the BMW. For the moment anyway. I've quite a few rabid beemer owning friends(M5 and M3 as well as lesser models) and each one of them has a grin on his face two minutes after opening up the throttle on my jalopy. That said none of them would like to live with it on a daily basis as it is a bit raw for most. The unwelcome atentions of the baseball wearing brigade doesn't help either. From an economic side there's no contest. It's so much cheaper to own.

bazz26 wrote:

While the Civic Type R 1.6 generally may not have the flat out performance of an M3, it is relatively cheap to put on the road, cheap to maintain and very easy to modify

Yep, but they're not so cheap or easy to modify at all. As the engine is already in a high state of tune "out of the box", any further gains will cost big bucks. Slappin an airfilter on it will do sweet F all. Anyone who reckons they got big gains with sparkplugs, a loud exhaust and airfilter is talking without recourse to their mouth.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

Unkel, most young people that would be looking at the Civic 1.6 Type R may not be able to afford the insurance on a 3.2 litre M3 or the high road tax and fuel bills

How do you define young? Even for a 23 year old with full license and 5 years NCB, insuring the Civic would still be very expensive, dwarfing tax and petrol costs into insignificance. But I grant you, a young person might opt to pay €5k to insure the Civic, where he/she can not get any quote on an M3

Wibbs wrote:

I've quite a few rabid beemer owning friends(M5 and M3 as well as lesser models) and each one of them has a grin on his face two minutes after opening up the throttle on my jalopy. That said none of them would like to live with it on a daily basis as it is a bit raw for most

This is it. I admire the technology of Honda type-R engines but I can't see much practical use for them in day-to-day driving in Ireland. Type-Rs belong on the race track

Wibbs

unkel wrote:

This is it. I admire the technology of Honda type-R engines but I can't see much practical use for them in day-to-day driving in Ireland. Type-Rs belong on the race track

Yep. For a start they're noisy and I've a bog standard Honda exhaust on mine. Absolutely no sound proofing at all God knows why you would put a loud exhasut on one. You would be wearing an ear trumpet in no time. I must be getting old.

Then again that noise, etc will likely save me and my license, as you actually get a feel for how fast you're going. It makes me slow down weirdly enough. You get a feeling how fast 80 mph actually is. You're not insulated form the road like in so many cars nowadays. I reckon taking the soundproofing out of all cars might slow people down....

The seats are v nice. the gearshift, steering, roadholding etc is by far the best of any front driver I've ever experienced. No if buts or maybes. On the bendy bits you can frighten the bejasus out of far far more powerful cars.

I'll say one thing for them(and this is how I know I'm getting old ), due to the engine work done to them, the petrol consumption is very very good all things considered. I get damn near 40 MPG out of mine. Now that of course is without the old VTEC kicking in. If you've a heavy right foot and drive in a "sprited" fashion, the car turns into a mechanically organised petrol leak.

Rudolph Claus

This is it. I admire the technology of Honda type-R engines but I can't see much practical use for them in day-to-day driving in Ireland. Type-Rs belong on the race track

Are you a nerd? This thread is about the joys of Honda Type R`s, if you have no interest in them or are poor and cant afford 1 weeks running of them why do you keep posting with retarded statements like they`re impractable? If they`re impractable for whatever your needs are just dont buy one. Have you ever owned a Type R? Or been in one. Or do any of your friends have them or do ye all drive little family wagons.

unkel

Wibbs wrote:

I get damn near 40 MPG out of mine

That's excellent

Wibbs wrote:

Now that of course is without the old VTEC kicking in. If you've a heavy right foot and drive in a "sprited" fashion, the car turns into a mechanically organised petrol leak.

LOL. I get just over 20MPG out of mine with a light right foot. Driving it hard would get me into the single figures :eek:

Nuttzy wrote:

Are you a nerd?

Is that a compliment?

Nuttzy wrote:

This thread is about the joys of Honda Type R`s

Nope, this thread is about discussing are type-Rs worth it. See OP

Nuttzy wrote:

why do you keep posting with retarded statements like they`re impractable?

Eh?

Wibbs (who owns one and seems quite knowledgeable about them) agrees with me about that very point there ^^

So your obvious lack of arguments leads you to resort to calling me names?

Nuttzy wrote:

If they`re impractable for whatever your needs are just dont buy one

The OP is asking if they are worth it - my comment is directly related to that

Nuttzy wrote:

Have you ever owned a Type R? Or been in one

No and yes

Nuttzy wrote:

Or do any of your friends have them or do ye all drive little family wagons.

What have my friends to do with this? Speaking for myself, no I don't drive a little family wagon. It would be far cheaper for me to own and run a '96 Civic Type-R than to run my own '96 car...

Ratchet

DubNside wrote:

Anyone have advice/expierience with Honda Type-R's, i.e Civic's and Integra's?

I have been looking at 97 and 98's of both models, but the average price appears to be about €11,000! A lot for a car of that year. Although I mean of course i know they come with 170-210BHP and look great but, are they worth it?

In terms of 1. Insurance 2.Value 3. Resale Value 4.Reliabilty/Servicing?

integras are better value, there is good few of them for sale and you get lots of car for the money. I was looking for one few weeks ago and there was 180 type r's on cbg.ie. Civic's are overpriced due to boy racers demand and false view that 1.6 is much cheaper to insure.

resale value :rolleyes: don't put lots of things on the car , you will never get your money back

Reliabilty/Servicing well, it;s a honda and servicing costs are normal

DubNside

Seen a 97 Vti for around 7k, irish car, fsh, nct'd.

Might not be bad if you add: new Exhaust system/manifold, Induction kit, Chipped...

I've had one before and they seem to be more driveable, as in you dont have to rally them to get a decent performance.

ando

Wibbs wrote:

I get damn near 40 MPG out of mine. Now that of course is without the old VTEC kicking in.

thats unreal, are you sure your not b*llsh*tin a little bit? I struggle to get 20mpg driving round town in my car with similar bhp

Big Balls

ando wrote:

thats unreal, are you sure your not b*llsh*tin a little bit? I struggle to get 20mpg driving round town in my car with similar bhp

Sure there's no bloody power in them until that mad V Tec place that you hear about is reached, 40 mpg is probably quite possible !!

jayok

Big Balls wrote:

Sure there's no bloody power in them until that mad V Tec place that you hear about is reached, 40 mpg is probably quite possible !!

Yeah - I've a 1.6 VTi and I get 40 mpg on long runs as well IF I stay out of the VTEC band. Into VTEC and I'll get anywhere from 24 mpg to 30 mpg.

As Big Balls says there's a power flat spot until about 4k RPM and then at 5.5K all hell breaks loose!

5500

jayok wrote:

Yeah - I've a 1.6 VTi and I get 40 mpg on long runs as well IF I stay out of the VTEC band. Into VTEC and I'll get anywhere from 24 mpg to 30 mpg.

Ive a Vti too and at city driving but with the odd bit of vtec i get 25/30 mpg from it.If you keep at vtec you can literally see the petrol needle dropping onfront of you!

I find mines ashmathic and fairly flat from 3k to 5.5,most power seems to be in around 6/6.5 and over 7 it doesnt seem as if its still pulling anymore

jayok

eireal wrote:

Ive a Vti too and at city driving but with the odd bit of vtec i get 25/30 mpg from it.If you keep at vtec you can literally see the petrol needle dropping onfront of you!

I find mines ashmathic and fairly flat from 3k to 5.5,most power seems to be in around 6/6.5 and over 7 it doesnt seem as if its still pulling anymore

[OT] Must be the gauges in he car, mine definately is out of its flat-spot by 4k and will keep going until 7.5k.

As for MPG I'd get 24 MPG only in city driving with the A/C on... so you must live in the power band!
[/OT]


Back to the OPs question. Are the worth it? Maybe - it depends what you want from life. I have to agree that some are vastly overpriced (i.e. 12k for a 96) but for 7-8k for a decent VTi you'll have a grin from ear-to-ear. Yes you can buy an M3 for less money and get "more" car. But it isn't always about power, it's about the experience. That's what Honda's Type-R philisophy is about. Not the fastest, or quickest, but the best experience.

I have driven many cars but the whole "experience" of a high-rpm VTEC engine engaging the power band as it takes a big glup will make any adult giddy.

I maybe married with offspring - but I ain't dead yet!

Wibbs

unkel wrote:

Eh?

Wibbs (who owns one and seems quite knowledgeable about them) agrees with me about that very point there ^^

Ay thankyew . To be fair they're quite practical in that they're frugal on juice(with caveats), they've pretty good bootspace, hatchback an' all that(especially compared to some "practical" cars), four seats(two sweeet Recaros), excellent driving position and have reliabilty stats that mean that there will likely be the throb of a VTEC heard in the dark of a dying earth when the sun has died to lifeless cinder. In fact if God wanted a car to drive around in for work purposes the next few millenia, he'd likely conjur up a Honda(or a Hi lux).

The impracticality would mainly be down to the noise and harshness levels. That said, you get used to it and it's not that loud at all on the standard exhaust/air intake/suspension. Most out there have dustbins out the back, "hi power" airfilters and lowered, "upgraded" suspension, so many people get their experience of the breed with those modifications.

ando wrote:

thats unreal, are you sure your not b*llsh*tin a little bit? I struggle to get 20mpg driving round town in my car with similar bhp

Nope, it honestly gets in the high 30's on a long run. I've studied it(need more hobbies obviously). 'Round town, I'm getting around the 30 mark. Hard driving? I'd be reckoning on 20 if I'm lucky(hard to judge). An average all around consumption figure would be in the mid to late 20's. Unreal given the power output. Then again a highly tuned NA engine(witha higher piston speed than a F1 engine glee ), such as that fitted to the type r is significantly more efficient than a bog standard engine. I know this as I ran a standard 1.8 vtec teg for a few years and it wasn't as good. Also mine is even more lightweight than the standard type R as it came with no ABS, airbags, rear wiper, rear hi brake light or radio as standard(have the original sale docs in japanese). That's gotta be worth a few kilos anyway. Compare that to the standard SIR on which it's based. ABS SRS, wipers, thicker glass, Soundproofing, sunroofs, ect etc, you can see where a large part of both the performance and the fuel consumption comes from.

Big Balls wrote:

Sure there's no bloody power in them until that mad V Tec place that you hear about is reached, 40 mpg is probably quite possible !!

Well its certainly delivered in a different way to a bigger engine with the same grunt. It's torquey enough though, especially the later 98 spec on type. Mine has very little of a flat spot too, compared to others I've tried(quite a few). The civic seems to have a quite pronounced flat spot, which was one of the reasons I avoided it. The JDM post 98 one seems to have gotten it right.