selling a car without NCT

oleras

quick couple of questions folks, i am buying a car, 01, but the garage have said there is no nct on it, and there is a 3 weeks wait to get them tested, is this ok ? they want me to get it done when its in my name, they will pay and everything and if anything comes back they will sort it out, can they sell a car with no nct if its due ?...... another thing, sticker price was 20k, also had an add in the paper and said 20k, but the net said 21k and when i asked about it he said the sticker was wrong, should be 21k and he will sell it for 20k...i know an advertised price aint law, just an offer to sell....but should there be some goodwill here ? say split the difference ?

Kimbot

Make sure you get it in writing that they will fix anything that it fails its NCT on!!
Sticker price in the garage is cash only, if on finance they have to add administration fees of what they say is a grand AFAIK!!

road_high

oleras wrote:

quick couple of questions folks, i am buying a car, 01, but the garage have said there is no nct on it, and there is a 3 weeks wait to get them tested, is this ok ? they want me to get it done when its in my name, they will pay and everything and if anything comes back they will sort it out, can they sell a car with no nct if its due ?...... another thing, sticker price was 20k, also had an add in the paper and said 20k, but the net said 21k and when i asked about it he said the sticker was wrong, should be 21k and he will sell it for 20k...i know an advertised price aint law, just an offer to sell....but should there be some goodwill here ? say split the difference ?

I'm not sure about this; they say they will pay for everything if it needs to be done for NCT??What if there is something major in the NCT and they refuse to pay for the repair.
If this were me, I would at the very least insist that the NCT be done before I accept the car- once you take the goods you forfeit some rights as a consumer far as I know.
You're certainly paying enough to expect things to be perfect- in relation to the price I would again insist on the advertised price; there are plenty of cars out there in the marketplace nowadays, so if you don't feel you're getting a good deal or service just walk away and look elsewhere.

The_Magoo

You are willing to pay €21000 for a car with no NCT? I would offer them €19000, and insist on a NCT and a 6month warranty minimum. Its a buyers market for second hand cars. If you dont get what you want walk away! What kinda car is it?

Seth Brundle

If you are going to put a deosit or something down on the car before the NCT then do so *after* an independant mechanic has looked at it!

oleras

The_Magoo wrote:

You are willing to pay €21000 for a car with no NCT? I would offer them €19000, and insist on a NCT and a 6month warranty minimum. Its a buyers market for second hand cars. If you dont get what you want walk away! What kinda car is it?

its 20k cash, full 12 month waranty also..... its a c180 with only 60k on the clock, 2.0 petrol, drove it and was perfect.

Eoin

What warranty are you getting? I would insist on nothing less than a 6 month bumper to bumper warranty (in writing) if I was shelling out 20K. That warranty would cover anything that comes up in the NCT.

Also remember that the NCT is by no means a guarantee in itself that the car is in good condition - I'm sure most the people on this forum can tell you horror stories about cars that got through the NCT that shouldn't have.

The_Magoo

oleras wrote:

its 20k cash, full 12 month waranty also..... its a c180 with only 60k on the clock, 2.0 petrol, drove it and was perfect.

Saloon or coupe? What spec? Was just looking on carzone at average prices, €20000 seems quite good, but depending on spec you could probably push a little more. But if you are willing to take it as is, make sure it is inspected by an independant mechanic and get a greater discount. Also if the advertised it at €20000 in the paper, then that is their starting price, you will get it for less than that. Trade price on those would only be around €17500, so push harder!

oleras

The_Magoo wrote:

Saloon or coupe? What spec? Was just looking on carzone at average prices, €20000 seems quite good, but depending on spec you could probably push a little more. But if you are willing to take it as is, make sure it is inspected by an independant mechanic and get a greater discount. Also if the advertised it at €20000 in the paper, then that is their starting price, you will get it for less than that. Trade price on those would only be around €17500, so push harder!

saloon, clasic spec, very clean and tidy though, would not be bothered about alloys, crap roads or auto to be honest.

Mc-BigE

Surely a Dealer can get an NCT done faster than 3 weeks? This sounds suspicious to me. I would insist in writing that everything, including re-tests
Is covered in writing.
Go through the Garage's warranty in detail, sometimes they will only cover the part needing replacing, but if your brakes need to be adjusted for example, they won’t cover that, just the part only.

---updated----
have a look at these:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&MakeID=17&xMakeID=17&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=149&xModelID=149&Doors=&BodyID=&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=2001&Engine_Max=2000&Year_Max=2001&Price_Min=&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=1&SortBy=MakeAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

theres a few on there for under 20k
If your buying for cash you should be knocking close to 2K off the price, especially in the current 2nd hand market.

oleras

Mc-BigE wrote:

Surely a Dealer can get an NCT done faster than 3 weeks? This sounds suspicious to me. I would insist in writing that everything, including re-tests
Is covered in writing.
Go through the Garage's warranty in detail, sometimes they will only cover the part needing replacing, but if your brakes need to be adjusted for example, they won’t cover that, just the part only.

---updated----
have a look at these:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&MakeID=17&xMakeID=17&ColourID=&xColourID=&ModelID=149&xModelID=149&Doors=&BodyID=&Engine_Min=&Year_Min=2001&Engine_Max=2000&Year_Max=2001&Price_Min=&Price_Min_integer=Minimum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&CountyID=&xCountyID=&Price_Max=&Price_Max_integer=Maximum+price+entered+was+not+an+integer.&BusinessID=&xBusinessID=&IsPrivateSale=&FuelID=1&SortBy=MakeAsc&MaxRows=100&InsertPeriod=&ResultFormat=&submit=Find+%3E%3E

theres a few on there for under 20k
If your buying for cash you should be knocking close to 2K off the price, especially in the current 2nd hand market.

true, but much more piece of mind buying it from a place only 10 mins away, just in case something does go wrong...... but i agree with the warranty in writing, ill make sure to get that, and when i said cash, meant not trading anything against it, still doing the finance thing for part of it.

michaelanthony

You don't need the NCT.

The_Magoo

michaelanthony wrote:

You don't need the NCT.

No you dont, but it saves a lot of hastle, not to mention time and expense! Why do you say you dont need one? Lets suppose that the gardai start enforcing the nct, eh? A car without a nct would be classified as unroadworthy. An unroadworth car is illegal to drive. If you cant drive it, then the car is worthless. So what good is a €20000 merc if you cant drive it. That is supposing the gardi enforce the nct of course. But it is a principle I use when buying a car. Lets be fair. Its not that hard to get a good car through a NCT!

Also if you are pay for the car with finace, really push for discount as they will make additional money via interest, so the higher the price you pay, the greater the amount of interest you pay.

michaelanthony

They don't enforce it. And anyway people had no problems buying secondhand cars before the NCT. And the car drives fine.

Gurgle

oleras wrote:

quick couple of questions folks, i am buying a car, 01, but the garage have said there is no nct on it, and there is a 3 weeks wait to get them tested, is this ok ?

I'd avoid it like the plague tbh.

Just on the basis that anyone who wants to sell a car wants to get as much money as possible and the NCT cert makes that easier to do.

I can see no honest reason why they would advertise it without doing the NCT first.

And ffs don't take a HP agreement - you'll be absolutely screwed with the interest rate. Get a CU loan or something.

Savman

The_Magoo wrote:

You are willing to pay €21000 for a car with no NCT?

that was my initial reaction too :eek::eek::eek:

Eoin

Gurgle wrote:

And ffs don't take a HP agreement - you'll be absolutely screwed with the interest rate. Get a CU loan or something.

I think you only get screwed if you pay it back early, otherwise you can get quite a competitive rate?

Gurgle

eoin_s wrote:

I think you only get screwed if you pay it back early, otherwise you can get quite a competitive rate?

If its changed in the last 7 years.
Used to be 12-15% when personal loans were at 8%

oleras

Gurgle wrote:

I'd avoid it like the plague tbh.

Just on the basis that anyone who wants to sell a car wants to get as much money as possible and the NCT cert makes that easier to do.

I can see no honest reason why they would advertise it without doing the NCT first.

And ffs don't take a HP agreement - you'll be absolutely screwed with the interest rate. Get a CU loan or something.

i think you should compare a competitive car loan with a credit union loan....you would be very surprised.........

edit: but lets not get into a debate over one type of loan over another....lol

Mc-BigE

go in there with cash from bank/C.U. and you can knock him down better than him giving you a "deal" on overpriced finance

bazz26

Could you not wait the 3 weeks and let them put the car through the NCT? A reasonable deposit should secure the car for this period. If they have nothing to hide they should agree to this.

Regarding the price of the car, I would be haggling more off that price. You are paying cash with no trade-in and taking up finance with them. That means the salesman is getting a good commission on the sale of the car, no trade-in to worry about selling on and he is also getting a commission from the bank for getting them your finance business. I definately think there is more room for a bigger discount. Close to €19,500 cash should be more realistic to pay on a car they are asking €21k for.

oleras

when i went to view the car again there was an NCT on it, till jan 07, it seems it was not in the file when he looked........... so its just the matter of money now....... when i went there it had 20k on the window, the salesman said oh, mistake, should have been 21k.....mistakes happen.... but i have yet to see a wrong price on the window of a car !!!....so i done some homework.... found the same car from the garage on the paper at the weekend at 20k.....on carzone at 20k.....and to beat the band....on their own website at 20k !!!.........now it could be one mistake following another....this happens, but c'mon......i think now the starting price should be honoured at 20k and drop from there......what do ye think ? also, i have a 100 euro deposit on the car, if he gets stroppy and refuses to budge can i demand this back ?

Gurgle

oleras wrote:

also, i have a 100 euro deposit on the car, if he gets stroppy and refuses to budge can i demand this back ?

What price did you agree to when you paid the €100 ?

oleras

Gurgle wrote:

What price did you agree to when you paid the €100 ?

20k......

Our man in Havana

oleras wrote:

when i went to view the car again there was an NCT on it, till jan 07, it seems it was not in the file when he looked...........

Oh really? I would be checking closely that it is a genuine NCT cert. Make sure it is not a forgery. Why anyone would remove the disk from the window is beyond me.

unkel

oleras wrote:

when i went there it had 20k on the window, the salesman said oh, mistake, should have been 21k.....mistakes happen.... but i have yet to see a wrong price on the window of a car !!!....so i done some homework.... found the same car from the garage on the paper at the weekend at 20k.....on carzone at 20k.....and to beat the band....on their own website at 20k !!!

So the asking price was €20k and you agreed to pay €20k? Sorry mate you didn't post this sooner

You could have easily got the car for at least a grand less. The dealer is probably spending the €1000 he never expected to get right now...

Slinky>

IMHO their being dishonest, Its a bit rich to say the 'mistake' got into their ad in the paper and carzone, If they are that incompetent do you want to buy a car off them? If its not a mistake their not being straight with you, Do you want to buy a car from a garage arent being honest at this early stage?

oleras wrote:

when i went to view the car again there was an NCT on it, till jan 07, it seems it was not in the file when he looked........... so its just the matter of money now....... when i went there it had 20k on the window, the salesman said oh, mistake, should have been 21k.....mistakes happen.... but i have yet to see a wrong price on the window of a car !!!....so i done some homework.... found the same car from the garage on the paper at the weekend at 20k.....on carzone at 20k.....and to beat the band....on their own website at 20k !!!.........now it could be one mistake following another....this happens, but c'mon......i think now the starting price should be honoured at 20k and drop from there......what do ye think ? also, i have a 100 euro deposit on the car, if he gets stroppy and refuses to budge can i demand this back ?

Gurgle

oleras wrote:

i think now the starting price should be honoured at 20k and drop from there......what do ye think ? also, i have a 100 euro deposit on the car, if he gets stroppy and refuses to budge can i demand this back ?

You looked at the car, presumably test-drove it, agreed to a price of €20k and handed over a €100 deposit.

So whats the problem now?

You've discovered that they had advertised it at the exact price you agreed to pay, so you want money off that price because you *thought* you had haggled them down from €21k?

Has something changed about the car that means its worth less to you this week than it was last week?

If you found they had advertised it at €50k, would you go in now and insist on paying €49k?

oleras

Gurgle wrote:

If you found they had advertised it at €50k, would you go in now and insist on paying €49k?

What a ridiculous, asinine question..... you just dont get it do you ? maybe have a read back....more slowly this time......;)

magnumlady

I've seen a lot of cars on forecourts with their nct's not displayed, so I don't think thats dodgy. Some of them just keep all the paperwork relating to the cars in folders. Don't know why though.

Gurgle

oleras wrote:

What a ridiculous, asinine question..... you just dont get it do you ? maybe have a read back....more slowly this time......;)

Here's how I read it:
You agreed to buy a car for €20k, with no NCT on the 'understanding' that they would fix anything that caused it to fail the NCT.

They found that it had an NCT

You found that they had it advertised for €20k

You now want it for less than €20k because you don't 'feel' you got the bargain you thought you were getting.

Would that be an accurate summary?

Mc-BigE

Gurgle wrote:

Here's how I read it:

You found that they had it advertised for €20k

You now want it for less than €20k because you don't 'feel' you got the bargain you thought you were getting.

Would that be an accurate summary?

The car was advertised incorrectly in the first place, I would be pretty pi$$ed off if I found out I paid the asking price.
I dealers asking price is not necessarily his final price, especially in the current car climate of SSIA madness.

However, because a deposit was paid, legally this is a contract between the dealer and the buyer.

If it was me, I would look around at other ones and tell the dealer to keep his 100 euro deposit. You’ll find one for cheaper than 19900 if you haggle.

Gurgle

Mc-BigE wrote:

I would be pretty pi$$ed off if I found out I paid the asking price.

Asking price is meaningless.
When you're buying a car, new or second-hand the 'asking price' just sets the ballpark.
The sale price will reflect:
How much the car is worth to you.
How badly the dealer wants to liquidate it as an asset.
Whos better at haggling.

Bumping the starting price up when the negotiations start is the oldest trick in the book. At a guess, the OP went into the garage and said 'thats got €20k on it, how much will you let it go for' or some such amateur attempt at bargaining.

Of course the dealer's target price is €20k and in this case it turns out that the dealer was a better haggler.

So the OP agreed a price, paid a deposit then later copped on that he hadn't really succeded in the haggling.

Would you honestly expect to get anywhere going back to the dealer and saying 'Hey, I'm not happy with the price we agreed yesterday, how about I give you less?'

And then to go whining on boardsie about how he was tricked?:rolleyes:

Mc-BigE

Gurgle wrote:

Asking price is meaningless.
When you're buying a car, new or second-hand the 'asking price' just sets the ballpark.
The sale price will reflect:
How much the car is worth to you.
How badly the dealer wants to liquidate it as an asset.
Whos better at haggling.

Bumping the starting price up when the negotiations start is the oldest trick in the book. At a guess, the OP went into the garage and said 'thats got €20k on it, how much will you let it go for' or some such amateur attempt at bargaining.

Of course the dealer's target price is €20k and in this case it turns out that the dealer was a better haggler.

So the OP agreed a price, paid a deposit then later copped on that he hadn't really succeded in the haggling.

Would you honestly expect to get anywhere going back to the dealer and saying 'Hey, I'm not happy with the price we agreed yesterday, how about I give you less?'

And then to go whining on boardsie about how he was tricked?:rolleyes:

I pretty much agree with everything your saying, i went back to re-read the OP #1 thread and the sticker price was 20K and the net price was 21K, well to me the op should not have accepted that straight away.

I still think if I was the op I would tell the buyer to keep the 100 deposit (put it down to experience) and move on , the dealer might ring him back in a week or two when other buyers are haggling the merc down to 18 or less!:)

Anyway the OP is probably driving this merc by now, so this conversation is probably pointless:)

oleras

Gurgle wrote:

or some such amateur attempt at bargaining.

Please dont assume you understand my bargaining skills....

and yes i am driving the car now..... very impressed with it and we met half way.....so am overall happy, and when you throw in the 6 months tax and the fill of petrol and the first service, not a bad bit of bargaining after all !!

Gurgle

oleras wrote:

and yes i am driving the car now..... very impressed with it and we met half way.....so am overall happy, and when you throw in the 6 months tax and the fill of petrol and the first service, not a bad bit of bargaining after all !!

Congratulations & best of luck with it.

oleras

Gurgle wrote:

Congratulations & best of luck with it.

Thanks....:)