Montenegro & The Balkans

Culchie

Very interesting to see that Montenegros vote of Independence was carried.

This leaves Serbia on their own really, as Kosovo as also expected to become Independent within 12 months.

Having been a quite frequent visitor to the area, there is a defininite trend of increasing prosperity in Croatia and Montenegro, leaving Serbia and Bosnia behind in economic terms.

Any other views?

mike65

I'm glad they got the vote, the last of Yugoslavia is dead and Serbia has no-one to lean on. No doubt the Montenegrons will be frustrated in thier attempts to fast-track into the EU but they'll be getting some choice deals anyway I expect.

Mike.

Victor

I think it oddd that the international community considered Kosovo too small for independence (the risk being everyone and his aunt would want their own independence), but for Montenegro with a third of the population its OK.

I realise Montenegro has slightly more land though.

Hogmeister B

mike65 wrote:

No doubt the Montenegrons will be frustrated in thier attempts to fast-track into the EU but they'll be getting some choice deals anyway I expect.

Mike.

It's Montenegrins.

mike65

Well it was one or the other.

Mike.

Manic Moran

Weren't the Montenegrons the bad guys in Captain Scarlet...?

NTM

Zebra3

Firstly, interesting to see the EU's position on democracy. If 54.9% had voted for independence, it wasn't good enough in their eyes. :rolleyes:

Secondly, Montenegro. like Croatia, will succeed in the long-run if only because of their ability to attract tourists in to the country. When I was in Croatia, one thing that pissed of the locals (or so they said) in the 80s was money raised from tourism in Croatia being spent on the military in Belgrade. I've no idea if this is actually true or not.

Culchie

Zebra3 wrote:

Firstly, interesting to see the EU's position on democracy. If 54.9% had voted for independence, it wasn't good enough in their eyes. :rolleyes:

Secondly, Montenegro. like Croatia, will succeed in the long-run if only because of their ability to attract tourists in to the country. When I was in Croatia, one thing that pissed of the locals (or so they said) in the 80s was money raised from tourism in Croatia being spent on the military in Belgrade. I've no idea if this is actually true or not.

Well you've kinda hit one of the nails on the head there, even though it was an indirect hit:)

Serbia is now landlocked, with Croatia and Montenegro now 'independent'.

Much of Croatia's traditional tourism was from the Serb's and ex-communist countries (Poles, Czechs, Hungarians etc...), yet the money went back to Belgrade.

Victor

Culchie wrote:

Much of Croatia's traditional tourism was from the Serb's and ex-communist countries (Poles, Czechs, Hungarians etc...), yet the money went back to Belgrade.

It was also very popular with Germans and Scandanavians.

mike65

The Germans eh?

Mike.

Sand

(Brian and Stewie are on a German tour bus.)
German Tour Guide: You vill find more on Germany's contributions to ze arts in ze pamphlets ve have provided.
Brian : Yeah, about your pamphlet... uh, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 and 1945. There's just a big gap.
Tour guide: Everyone vas on vacation. On your left is Munich's first city hall, erected in 15...
Brian : Wait, what are you talking about? Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and...
Tour Guide: We were invited. Punch vas served. Check vit Poland.

Firstly, interesting to see the EU's position on democracy. If 54.9% had voted for independence, it wasn't good enough in their eyes

Think it was actually a constitutional limit? To stop 50.1% overulling 49.9% on a decision that was too important to leave to a margin of .1% swinging their vote either way?

flogen

Sand wrote:

Think it was actually a constitutional limit? To stop 50.1% overulling 49.9% on a decision that was too important to leave to a margin of .1% swinging their vote either way?

Which is more than understandable... I'd say SF hate that rule with a passion, whatever chance they have of 50.1% in our life time

gaf1983

Wasn't one of Montenegro's motivations in seeking independence to distance themselves from Serbia's actions in not arresting Mladic and his merry men? The idea is that this should speed up their entry into the EU.

The Corinthian

Victor wrote:

It was also very popular with Germans and Scandanavians.

I was there twice, in the mid 80's and early 90's. There were lot's of Germans, Austrians and a lesser number of Italians on holiday there in the former. The latter didn't really see that many tourists naturally.

Zebra3

A lot of ties between Croatia and Germany.

An independent puppet state (if that's not an oxymoron!) of Croatia was an ally of Germany in WWII and I think Germany was also the first state to recognise Croatia as an independent state in the 90s.

Then Austria (Croatia was part of the Ausro-Hungarian Empire) has been pushing recently for Croatia's inclusion in the EU.

BOHSBOHS

its all to do with getting more eurovision voting power.......:D
vojvodina and kosovo next to split off ..

Victor

Actually, how many countries disappeared since the end of the Cold War?

East / West Germany, Czechosolvakia, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, North / South Yemen. Any others?

BOHSBOHS

montenegro is an extremely poor state.

it has brought in the euro as its currency and introduced wide economic reforms to try and "impress" the EU.

it is heavily reliant on tourism from serbia and russia etc , there is little else going for it afaik. Now that it will no longer receive any share of serbian oil/gas revenues , i dont think it can survive outside of the EU in the long term.

Victor

BOHSBOHS wrote:

Now that it will no longer receive any share of serbian oil/gas revenues

Um, the don't really have all that much oil. They produce about one-fivehundreth of what Saudi Arabia does.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/yi.html

Oil - production: 14,660 bbl/day (2003)
Oil - consumption: 85,000 bbl/day (2003 est.)