Seen a good one this morning...

Longrangedriver

I was on the M4 this morning going to Longford, and seen this.

I was approaching the Kilcock area, and this blue Hyundai Atos was hogging the 'overtaking lane' and everytime someone wanted to overtake he would brake and get the driver behind to back-off. Having seen that other drivers were backing off in to the driving lane, I decided to try my luck, as a group of slower moving cars were in front of me. I pulled out behind the Atos, as proceeded to get by this car and was at 65-70mph and about 2 car distances behind the Atos. He braked constantly and I let him off, for a bit, I tried again and no he wasn't having this. A gap appeared and I chanced undertaking him, as I moved in to the driving lane a blue private looking 02 D Avensis came up behind the Hyundai and tried his luck. The driver wasn't letting the Avensis by and braked a few times. Then the Avensis flashed him and still nothing, but a heavy foot on the Atos brakes, out of nowhere 2 blue strobes lit up from the Avensis and the Hyundai driver shot his load. They then pulled in and an un-uniformed cop got from the Avensis, and gave him dixie. The wierdest thing here was that the Avensis had reg plates and a rear sticker with 'Denis Mahony Toyota' on it. Didn't think they had private cars with lights in the grill, anyone seen this or similar.

crosstownk

Glad to hear that. I hate muppets who hog the overtaking lane and think it is their 'duty' to stop the rest of us from making some progress.

I've seen a couple of unmarked Garda cars with garage stickers and plate surrounds.

Hotwheels

Brillo...:D
Must have made yer day....

fletch

So glad to hear that

unkel

Nice one. There's loads of unmarked Avensis / Mondeos around

BTW just wondering who the Garda would have stopped had you undertaken the Atos?

conor_mc

You could argue the Atos was satisfying this rule of the road....!!!

(C) Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane.

Longrangedriver

unkel wrote:

Nice one. There's loads of unmarked Avensis / Mondeos around

BTW just wondering who the Garda would have stopped had you undertaken the Atos?

I could have possibly argued that I had to undertake a slower moving vehicle, as he was only doing 60-odd mph on the outside. I was under the impression that you could undertake a slower moving car etc.

PS - Someone should give the cop a medal:)

Longrangedriver

conor_mc wrote:

You could argue the Atos was satisfying this rule of the road....!!!

(C) Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane.

Maybe I'm picking your point up wrong, but he was in the overtaking lane doing 10-15 mph under the speed limit. Also he was the only vehicle in this lane, and everyone else stayed in the (left) driving lane, as ahead we had a line of cars on left, we couldn't get bye as he kept pulling back.

ianobrien

unkel wrote:

Nice one. There's loads of unmarked Avensis / Mondeos around

BTW just wondering who the Garda would have stopped had you undertaken the Atos?

I don't think that he had undertaken. All that he done was drive in the correct lane (Left hand lane, as we all are supposed to do). The only thing that the Garda could do him for is speeding, assuming that he broke the speed limit in the manuver.

I know because last week I passed out a car that was in the fast lane who was doing 80kph. I took the guy in the slow lane, doing 95kph. The guy in the fast lane reported me for dangerous driving. When I explained the story to the Garda, the Garda said that I didn't break any law and that the guy in the fast lane was breaking the law as he was driving without due care and attention by hogging the fast lane! As well, the guy phoned it in while driving. I informed the Garda that the guy had to have been using the phone while driving, as the Garda stopped me 10 minutes after the incident! The Garda was not impressed!

My understanding of undertaking is when you pass a car on the left and you use the hard shoulder for the passing.

Think about it like if you were stuck in traffic in town. If there were two lanes of traffic (same as dual carrageway, different speed limits), the traffic in the left lane could not move until the right lane moved, even if the left lane was clear!

Blitzkrieger

I won't say this often but that Garda's a legend.

Longrangedriver

Blitzkrieger wrote:

I won't say this often but that Garda's a legend.

Ditto!!!!!

Litcagral

ianobrien wrote:

I don't think that he had undertaken. All that he done was drive in the correct lane (Left hand lane, as we all are supposed to do). The only thing that the Garda could do him for is speeding, assuming that he broke the speed limit in the manuver.

I know because last week I passed out a car that was in the fast lane who was doing 80kph. I took the guy in the slow lane, doing 95kph. The guy in the fast lane reported me for dangerous driving. When I explained the story to the Garda, the Garda said that I didn't break any law and that the guy in the fast lane was breaking the law as he was driving without due care and attention by hogging the fast lane! As well, the guy phoned it in while driving. I informed the Garda that the guy had to have been using the phone while driving, as the Garda stopped me 10 minutes after the incident! The Garda was not impressed!

My understanding of undertaking is when you pass a car on the left and you use the hard shoulder for the passing.

Think about it like if you were stuck in traffic in town. If there were two lanes of traffic (same as dual carrageway, different speed limits), the traffic in the left lane could not move until the right lane moved, even if the left lane was clear!

You may only overtake on the left

1. when the driver ahead intends to turn right and has signaled his intention to do so.

2. when you intend to turn left and have signaled your intention to do so.

3. in slow moving traffic when the lane on your right is moving more slowly than your lane.

AFAIK using a mobile telephone while driving is not illegal in itself but you could be charged with careless/dangerous drining (open to correction on this).

unkel

ianobrien wrote:

last week I passed out a car that was in the fast lane who was doing 80kph. I took the guy in the slow lane, doing 95kph. The guy in the fast lane reported me for dangerous driving

His ignorance scares me. He obviously saw nothing wrong with his own behaviour

ianobrien wrote:

When I explained the story to the Garda, the Garda said that I didn't break any law

Well I'd love to see that officially somewhere. AFAIK you can only undertake in slow traffic* and I expect that to be nowhere near 100km/h. Anybody any definitive answer on that one? BTW I ain't being holier than thou here - I would have undertaken in your situation too provided I could do it safely...

* and when turning as Litcagral pointed

Anan1

unkel wrote:

Well I'd love to see that officially somewhere. AFAIK you can only undertake in slow traffic* and I expect that to be nowhere near 100km/h. Anybody any definitive answer on that one? BTW I ain't being holier than thou here - I would have undertaken in your situation too provided I could do it safely...

My interpretation of what they meant by slow-moving traffic would be bumper-to-bumper, maybe 30km/h max. Of course we've all done it (and will again), but I'd be pretty certain that undertaking at 80km/h is illegal. Don't forget, many Guards are a bit vague on the rules of the road too. I've been pulled for driving in a bus lane that hadn't been a bus lane for over two hours...

NeMiSiS

If they are in the right hand lane.. basically idling there, maybe because their car is over a 1 litre or something so they think they are in the 'fast lane', and you are in the driving lane, how in the name of christ could you be done for undertaking ?

You are entiteld to drive at 120kph in the left lane of a Motorway, assuming there are no signs to say otherwise, so if you are going by cars in the right hand lane, you are not breaking any law _they are_ as they should be in the left hand lane. They need HUGE signs on Irish Motorways saying 'OVER TAKING LANE ONLY, DON'T BE A ****ING ROAD HOG YOU SILLY ****ING BASTARD / AND OR STUPID BIDDY BITCH! DRIVE ON THE ****ING LEFT! THE LEFT!! THE LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFT!!!!!!'.

I was on the m50 the other day heading towards Bray, same thing.. asshole in right hand lane, doing about 50 mph, so I undertook him. He went completly basicalistic, when I pulled out into the right hand lane to overtake again... flashing the lights blowing the horn etc.. There was easily 35 - 40 car lengths between us. Then.. when his exit came up.. still in the right hand lane.. he crossed the whole way across the motorway.. no indication.. and pulled late into the exit..

There is a very simply solution to this. Send a massive snow plow, down the overtaking lane at off peak times, set it's cruise control to 65MPH and watch how fast people learn to get back in lane, after over taking.

TK..

Eoin

Litcagral wrote:

AFAIK using a mobile telephone while driving is not illegal in itself but you could be charged with careless/dangerous drining (open to correction on this).

Isn't that specifically illegal now? From what I remember, you can use a car phone (i.e. a mobile phone that is properly integrated into a car kit), but you can't use any hands-free kits.

edmund_f

nice to see the cops being forced to stop twits like this, but what do you think the chances of anything coming of this?.

Think they should be actively seeking out this type of road behaviour and stopping it.

perhaps it is too difficult to get a bit of shut eye, unlike the 'cop behind the bush'

Appears that the only time they enforce any law to the praise of other road users is when the accidently come across it?

Kimbot

The law regarding this is you are not to use the right lane unless you are overtaking!! At the end of the day the chap was hogging the lane and could have caused an accident with his sudden braking!! I'm glad he got caught and on that road aswell, i drive it a lot and the driving I see on it is a joke!!

Anan1

NeMiSiS wrote:

If they are in the right hand lane.. basically idling there, maybe because their car is over a 1 litre or something so they think they are in the 'fast lane', and you are in the driving lane, how in the name of christ could you be done for undertaking ?

You are entiteld to drive at 120kph in the left lane of a Motorway, assuming there are no signs to say otherwise, so if you are going by cars in the right hand lane, you are not breaking any law _they are_ as they should be in the left hand lane.

It's illegal (with certain exceptions) to overtake on the left. If you're driving on an empty motorway at 120km/h and you come upon an idiot doing 90km/h in the overtaking lane, you cannot legally pass him on the left. Funnily enough, you cannot legally move into the right lane either, as the right lane is for overtaking. Personally speaking, I'd pass him on the left, using the horn to make him aware of my presence in case he picked that moment to change lanes. This maneouvre, however, would be illegal.

NeMiSiS

What are you to do'legally' then. Drive parralel with them, or just behind them so they can see you ? Certain stretches of the M50 are notorious for bunches of cars in the right, with an empty left lane by empty I mean clear for about a mile. I undertook about 15 cars after the blanchardstown exit one day, all driving about 50PMH,in the right, with the road clear as far as I could see CLEAR, why in the name of God they have to drive in packs is beyond me.

TK

RobAMerc

That cops a legend indeed !

I think we should hound Conor Falkner of the AA to make a bit of a hoha about this in the media, he is afterall a spokesman for AA, a motorists association.

Rob

Longrangedriver

NeMiSiS wrote:

What are you to do'legally' then. Drive parralel with them, or just behind them so they can see you ? Certain stretches of the M50 are notorious for bunches of cars in the right, with an empty left lane by empty I mean clear for about a mile. I undertook about 15 cars after the blanchardstown exit one day, all driving about 50PMH,in the right, with the road clear as far as I could see CLEAR, why in the name of God they have to drive in packs is beyond me.

TK

Sheep, ducks & seagulls come to mind. The oul 'I'll follow him' mentality.

Still glad to see others agreeing with me on this one.

MercMad

Undertaking, and that's what it is when you pass ANYONE by using the left lane ( unless as mentioned you are in slow moving traffic) is one of the most dangerous problems we have on the roads !

I cant believe there are people here who still believe they are right to do so !

You folk need penalty points !!

Take a chill pill, stay behind, its not like you are going to get wherever any faster, you just get annoyed and aggressive and thats worse !

Relax !

Eoin

So, an otherwise empty M50 and a car in the right hand lane is going 80KMH, do you have to slow down and match his speed if you are in the left lane?

Doolittle51

eoin_s wrote:

So, an otherwise empty M50 and a car in the right hand lane is going 80KMH, do you have to slow down and match his speed if you are in the left lane?

I'd love to know the answer to this too. Anyone?

prospect

This undertaking thing was covered quite comprehensively before.

Hey, where is the bloody search option gone?

prospect

From the ROTR:

Driving - Motorway Driving:

LANE DISCIPLINE
The normal "keep left" rule applies. This means that you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking. In a three lane carriageway you may stay in the centre lane while there is slower moving traffic on the inner lane. A vehicle drawing a trailer should not use the right-hand lane of a carriageway with three or more lanes except in exceptional circumstances.

OVERTAKING
Overtake on the right only, unless traffic is moving in queues and the traffic queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are. Before you start to overtake, check that the way is clear, (behind and ahead) and signal well in advance.
Remember that traffic may be travelling significantly faster than on ordinary roads.
Be particularly careful at dusk, during darkness, and in foggy or misty conditions when it is more difficult to judge speed and distance. Return to your original lane as soon as possible.

unkel

Anan1 wrote:

My interpretation of what they meant by slow-moving traffic would be bumper-to-bumper, maybe 30km/h max. Of course we've all done it (and will again), but I'd be pretty certain that undertaking at 80km/h is illegal

That's my interpretation too

MercMad wrote:

Undertaking, and that's what it is when you pass ANYONE by using the left lane ( unless as mentioned you are in slow moving traffic) is one of the most dangerous problems we have on the roads !

It is dangerous and illegal. There should be penalty points for it, but only after penalty points are given to overtaking lane hoggers. These hoggers are more dangerous imho. I've driven in many countries but I've only seen this problem here. I admit to undertaking but again I have never undertaken in any country but Ireland. There simply was no need. Try hogging in say Italy or Germany. At best you get flashed, beeped with someone on your back bumper (bot not undertaken). At worst, you die, probably killing someone else too

unkel

eoin_s wrote:

So, an otherwise empty M50 and a car in the right hand lane is going 80KMH, do you have to slow down and match his speed if you are in the left lane?

Yes, or rather slow down to below his speed. After all he is in the overtaking lane, so he is overtaking you, isn't he?

The_Magoo

MercMad wrote:

Undertaking, and that's what it is when you pass ANYONE by using the left lane ( unless as mentioned you are in slow moving traffic) is one of the most dangerous problems we have on the roads !

I cant believe there are people here who still believe they are right to do so !

You folk need penalty points !!

Take a chill pill, stay behind, its not like you are going to get wherever any faster, you just get annoyed and aggressive and thats worse !

Relax !

I dont think anyone has agreed that this is the right option, but use it as a means to get pass someone who is obviously clueless about proper use of the roads. If they dont know which lane to drive in on a motorway, then they should not be using it. As for the chill pill, it is far more dangerous to drive in packs as the risk increases proportinate to the number of vehicles, regardless of speed. Also, as I travel to from galway to dublin on a weekly basis, if I was to follow individuals driving in the overtaking lane at 80kph, it would add an hour to my already long journey, increasing fatigue and risk. Also how can you state overtaking on the inside is so dangerous when it is a common practice in several other nations?

peasant

Having learned my motorway driving on unlimited (speed that is) German motorways, I freely admit to flashing, indicating and beeping the living daylights out of lane hoggers ...it's the only way to wake them from their slumber. (and by lane hoggers I mean the real ones, the mobile road blocks, the 80 km/h brigade ...wouldn't flash anyone for doing 115 instead of 120)

Undertaking is just waaay to risky ...these bumbling daydreamers are just too likely to suddenly pull over while you're right next to them. Passing a whole column on the inside just increases the risk of that happing and the likelyhood of a really nasty multi-car smash-up as an end result.

unkel

The_Magoo wrote:

Also how can you state overtaking on the inside is so dangerous

Here's your answer:

peasant wrote:

Undertaking is just waaay to risky ...these bumbling daydreamers are just too likely to suddenly pull over while you're right next to them

Many people are completely oblivious of other traffic around them. Don't look, don't use their mirrors, don't indicate. Undertaking is dangerous. For that matter, overtaking cars driven by drivers like that doing 50km/h when you are doing 120km/h is very dangerous too

The_Magoo wrote:

when it is a common practice in several other nations?

Only in countries where pretty much all traffic is doing pretty much the same speed (US). Totally unsuitable in Germany e.g. Oh and in other countries people look before they act

peasant

Here's one I just don't get at all (come across this several times)

Quiet time on the motorway or dual carriageway ...no traffic ...going the full legal speed (on the left hand lane)

Run up to a lane hogger, doing 80 on the "fast lane" of an otherwise empty road.

So i settle in the left lane behind him ...no movement ...I move over ...nothing... I indicate ...nothing ....I flash the lights ....nothing ...I beep ...the guy slows down ...I mention for him to move over ...he finally does and lets me pass ...

And then the idiot just pulls out into the "fast lane" again !!

Why ???

Ay Cee

I believe the scientific name for those people is Stupidus Fnckinus Muppetus.
The etymology of which escapes me at the moment

NeMiSiS

Ah.. so pull in behind the overtaking lane hogger.. give em a flash .. and then.. overtake them.. in the correct lane.. .. and then watch in your rear view mirror as they pull into overtaking lane again.. that makes sense..

I love driving in Ireland.. I really do. I'd bet money, if you sent out a leaflet.. to every house hold in Irealnd.. about say.. how to use a roundabout.. half the poeple from what see would read it and go 'Sure that's wrong! That's not how ya do it all!'

I rarely even have my radio on driving now a days you gotta be so .. prepared..

TK

peasant

NeMiSiS wrote:

.. and then watch in your rear view mirror as they pull into overtaking lane again.. that makes sense..

TK

Yep ...especially so, when you're watching from about 50 meters distance, after having pulled into the correct lane again, having properly indicated, left a safe distance and all that ...

Longrangedriver

(1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eoin_s
So, an otherwise empty M50 and a car in the right hand lane is going 80KMH, do you have to slow down and match his speed if you are in the left lane?

(2)

unkel wrote:

Yes, or rather slow down to below his speed. After all he is in the overtaking lane, so he is overtaking you, isn't he?

(1) My interperition is: when someone is doing less than the specified max speed ie 120kmph in the overtaking lane, its okay to 'undertake' them once you don't go any quicker than the specified max limit. :rolleyes:

(2) He/she may be only hogging as mentioned above, or just an asshole who wants to p!ss others off. Or could be on of our older drivers whom thinks they are on the continent, of many I see each day, who like to think they have to drive on the right. :mad:

Blitzkrieger

MercMad wrote:

Undertaking, and that's what it is when you pass ANYONE by using the left lane ( unless as mentioned you are in slow moving traffic) is one of the most dangerous problems we have on the roads !

I cant believe there are people here who still believe they are right to do so !

You folk need penalty points !!

Take a chill pill, stay behind, its not like you are going to get wherever any faster, you just get annoyed and aggressive and thats worse !

Relax !

omg how many things are wrong with that? Americans are allowed to overtake on either side but you don't think we can manage it? If the dip****s hogging the overtaking lane ever got it into their head to move over, they're supposed to check the lane is clear before doing so. I 'undertake' people every single day - there's always inconsiderate assholes in the overtaking lane that just won't move over. Coming to work this morning on largely empty roads I passed three people in the overtaking lane for no reason at all.
The simple stupidity of it amazes me. I can't conceive of one reason for them to be in the overtaking lane on an empty road. It's inconsiderate and illegal. A lot of times when you do undertake them they accelerate to try and prevent you. Who do you think is more dangerous?
I can't believe you would propose doing nothing. I've given up trying to make the ***** move over so I just pass them carefully and safely and continue on my way. Much more relaxing then being stuck behind them.

And of course you get there faster.

mike65

Blitzkeiger Americans also have a higher death rate than we do! (8.4 v 14.8 per100,000).

My own advice is to undertake only as an absolute last resort and to do with your dipped lights switch on, drop back slightly ease left and pause then if the slowcoach has'nt reacted (ie pulled left as well!) hit the loud pedal and get past as quick as possible without getting arrested.

The other point I'd make is that overtaking on short urban/suburban jouneys is almost entirly a waste of energy due to congestion, junctions and lights.

Mike.