Saw her job advertised....this wrong?

nearlyhappy

Hi everybody,

A quick question ye might be able to help me with.

My friend is in full time employment, and assumed everthing is OK, until she saw her position advertised on a jobs site. It's her position alright...


Question is, is this fair? Is it legal? As you can imagine, its a fairly stressful thing to come across...considering she has a mortgage and all....


Appreciate if anyone has any info on this, is it a contractual thing? Or has she some rights to at least be able to confirm they are looking to replace her so she can get another job.

Her contract states 3 months notice each side.


Thanks


Nh

Zaph

Is it possible that they're recruiting another person to expand the area she's in, so rather than being replaced she'll have someone working alongside her? TBH I've no idea what the legal situation is, but I would suggest keeping a copy of the ad clearly showing the daye, just in case there was any potential breach of contract later on. The other thing is whther she's checking job sites while in work (you wouldn't believe the number of people I know do this). If so, and they've been checking their internet usage logs and see this, they can reasonably assume that she's looking for a job herself and that they may need to replace her shortly.

nearlyhappy

zaph wrote:

Is it possible that they're recruiting another person to expand the area she's in, so rather than being replaced she'll have someone working alongside her? TBH I've no idea what the legal situation is, but I would suggest keeping a copy of the ad clearly showing the daye, just in case there was any potential breach of contract later on. The other thing is whther she's checking job sites while in work (you wouldn't believe the number of people I know do this). If so, and they've been checking their internet usage logs and see this, they can reasonably assume that she's looking for a job herself and that they may need to replace her shortly.

Cheers Zaph, as far as I know shes fairly positive there is no expansion.

And shes careful not to use company puters to check personal email and job sites, does that at home.

Any legal eagles about?

Thanks

Nh

monkeyfudge

What's the date on the advert? It mgiht be an old one.

nearlyhappy

monkeyfudge wrote:

What's the date on the advert? It mgiht be an old one.

Good thought MF, checked it, and its a week old, updated today.....



Nh

Talliesin

Well, if they "suddenly" claim to have a problem with her work, she can point to the advert when taking her to the cleaners.

chump

nearlyhappy wrote:

Good thought MF, checked it, and its a week old, updated today.....



Nh

Is it an agency ad?

If so I'd completely ignore it.
Even though they might fill a job they keep re-updating their ads (sure half them are fake) purely to get CV's in.

nearlyhappy

chump wrote:

Is it an agency ad?

If so I'd completely ignore it.
Even though they might fill a job they keep re-updating their ads (sure half them are fake) purely to get CV's in.

I'm hoping thats the case chump, but its not nice to see your specific job description on the net.


Pretty dodgy practice if you ask me.


Nh

Jonnie_Onion

If its an agency ad then they don't specify the company do they? The only way you'ld know for sure is if you registered with the agency.

nearlyhappy

Jonnie_Onion wrote:

If its an agency ad then they don't specify the company do they? The only way you'ld know for sure is if you registered with the agency.

Hi Jonnie, her job is so specific that the city mentioned is enough to confirm its actually her job.

Thats why its stressful...


Nh

smarty

Why is she looking at recruitment websites? If she is looking at recruitment websites, is she planning on leaving?

Should the company not be entitled to advertise for people with a plan to replace her, just in case? That is probably a bit harsh.

I would expect that it is just a recruitment agency putting up the job to get CVs in.

Litcagral

nearlyhappy wrote:

Hi everybody,

A quick question ye might be able to help me with.

My friend is in full time employment, and assumed everthing is OK, until she saw her position advertised on a jobs site. It's her position alright...


Question is, is this fair? Is it legal? As you can imagine, its a fairly stressful thing to come across...considering she has a mortgage and all....


Appreciate if anyone has any info on this, is it a contractual thing? Or has she some rights to at least be able to confirm they are looking to replace her so she can get another job.

Her contract states 3 months notice each side.


Thanks


Nh

It would be necessary to define "full time". Do you mean "appointed permanent and pensionable" or do you mean working a full (eg 39 hour) week?

Some temporary employees work 'full time' while some permanent employees work 'part time'.

Your friend may be temporary (i.e. not appointed if public service) or may be on probation.

chump

Also isn't it the case that with a public job, even if a temporary person is working the job and it may be mutually desirable for them to become permanent, that they must advertise the job legally and interview a certain amount of people, including your friend, before they offer a permanent pensionable job to anyone?

Litcagral

chump wrote:

Also isn't it the case that with a public job, even if a temporary person is working the job and it may be mutually desirable for them to become permanent, that they must advertise the job legally and interview a certain amount of people, including your friend, before they offer a permanent pensionable job to anyone?

Spot on (unless in exceptional circumstances).

nearlyhappy

Litcagral wrote:

It would be necessary to define "full time". Do you mean "appointed permanent and pensionable" or do you mean working a full (eg 39 hour) week?

Hi Litcagral, yes she has just completed 1 year probation, and is now fully appointed with pension. Its a private sector job.

I'm leaning toward the dodgy agency theory. But she will approach her HR, and I was just wondering if there is a section 5, sub paragraph etc etc she can use to insist they tell her if her job is being advertised.


Thanks all for the replies.


Nh

MrPudding

smarty wrote:

Why is she looking at recruitment websites? If she is looking at recruitment websites, is she planning on leaving?

Should the company not be entitled to advertise for people with a plan to replace her, just in case? That is probably a bit harsh.

No matter how happy you are in a job you should always keep an eye to see what things are like elsewhere. You can get comfortabel in a place and simply not realise you could get another job elsewhere which may be more senior, simply better and / or pay more money.

Looking at a jobsite is not reason enough for an employer to assume a person is leaving. From what I have read a employer is not allowed to infer that an employee is going to leave unless the employee expicilty tells them so. Further, this does not include things like the employee saying, "I am fed up with this place, I'm leaving." Apparently comments like that, possibly said in the heat of the moment cannot be taken as notice to leave.

MrP

0utshined

Is it possible that you, or another friend, could respond to the ad to try and get more information on it for her?

smarty

MrPudding wrote:

No matter how happy you are in a job you should always keep an eye to see what things are like elsewhere. You can get comfortabel in a place and simply not realise you could get another job elsewhere which may be more senior, simply better and / or pay more money.

Then, should an employer keep an eye to see what other potential employees are like elsewhere. Maybe they could get a more senior or better employee for less pay?

MrPudding

smarty wrote:

Then, should an employer keep an eye to see what other potential employees are like elsewhere. Maybe they could get a more senior or better employee for less pay?

That is the question isn't it? As far as I know looking at jobs is not illegal whereas sacking someone simply to replace them with someone cheaper is.

MrP

Wifey

chump wrote:

Is it an agency ad?

If so I'd completely ignore it.
Even though they might fill a job they keep re-updating their ads (sure half them are fake) purely to get CV's in.

Okay, I work in an agency and for one if our management see us putting up ads for non existent Jobs, We are in serious trouble. other possibility is, that if it is so specialised, an agency could put up the job to attract other people for other employers who may have a similar department, and if it has a high salary. As someone said getting the CV's in.

What I could suggest is that she A. Rings the agency & registers, or B. Go to HR & simply ask, say a friend was looking and knew what they did & thought the job was very similar or something to that effect. But if it is not a real job, and has such specific detail, then call the agency, say that you are working for another company ( Competitor) And say not interested if its not the company she wants.....To be honest there are a lot of bad agencies out there that are not part of the Federation & will try anything. OTherthing is, they used no imagination & copied tyhe spec for the ad....

Imposter

She should apply for it asking for more money and better conditions that she is already on.

SarahMc

If she has just completed a year there, then she has rights If the company wanted rid of her they would have done so before she had completed the year when she had no right to claim for constructive/unfair dismissal.

gerrycollins

it is illegal to advertise a postiion in exact details unless that position is vacant or becoming vacant(ie person handed in notice),

Although it is through as agency(no record of company) and there is no proof that the job is exactly hers other that specifics of the position(eg could be with a rival company using the same agency) so really there is nothing that can be done

The reason behind the "law" is that to advertise someones job before they have left or tendered resignation it is effectively seen as dismissal of that person by the company and they are looking at a replacement already before speaking to the current employee and seeking a resolve to any difficulties they may have with that employee.seeing that her probation of 1yr(v. long) is over i'd say unless she has been spoken to there is nothing to worry about

sadly in your case there is no proof only speculation that this advertisment is for her position so unless proof is obtained i'd say put it to the back of your mind but maybee get a record of the ad and a date with it for proof in the future should anything come about

secret_squirrel

There's a very simple solution - she asks - either her line manager or HR. Then she will know exactly where she stands. More importantly - so will the company.

Its not a crime for her to browse websites in her own home and own time. She has no reason to feel guilty about it and no reason to hide it from her bosses.

nearlyhappy

gerrycollins wrote:

it is illegal to advertise a postiion in exact details unless that position is vacant or becoming vacant(ie person handed in notice)

Hi gerry, thanks for that. Can you point me towards a legal document to that effect?

Is it in the employment rights bill or some such?

Thanks


Nh

gerrycollins

nearlyhappy wrote:

Hi gerry, thanks for that. Can you point me towards a legal document to that effect?

Is it in the employment rights bill or some such?

Thanks


Nh

if you give me 24hrs ill find out,sorry i just know my HR is constantly reminding me that i cannot advertise a specific job unless its vacant or becomming vacant ill get back to ya

nearlyhappy

gerrycollins wrote:

if you give me 24hrs ill find out,sorry i just know my HR is constantly reminding me that i cannot advertise a specific job unless its vacant or becomming vacant ill get back to ya

Thats excellent gerry, appreciate that. I've also asked about this on askaboutmoney.com as well, maybe theres a lawyer or 2 there...


Thanks again


Nh

WhiteWashMan

nearlyhappy wrote:

Hi everybody,

A quick question ye might be able to help me with.

My friend is in full time employment, and assumed everthing is OK, until she saw her position advertised on a jobs site. It's her position alright...


Question is, is this fair? Is it legal? As you can imagine, its a fairly stressful thing to come across...considering she has a mortgage and all....


Appreciate if anyone has any info on this, is it a contractual thing? Or has she some rights to at least be able to confirm they are looking to replace her so she can get another job.

Her contract states 3 months notice each side.


Thanks


Nh

no its not illegal, and unless she has reason to believe she is being ousted, i doubt there is anything to worry about

gerrycollins

WhiteWashMan wrote:

no its not illegal, and unless she has reason to believe she is being ousted, i doubt there is anything to worry about

i may have used the word "illegal" incorrectly but it is bad practise and with a 3 month notice period by either side im sure any replacement would need to give their current employer similar notice due to the nature of work involved

should notice be given to her with no reason other than redundancy(ie redundancy due to job been terminated/finished/no longer in existance)they cannot advertise the same job same spec again as this is illegal otherwise the job/position is not finished/terminated and she was let go illegally and she would have a case for unfair dismisal

gerrycollins

sorry i havent got any links for you but the law is under the minimun notice employment law

the bones of it is that it is illegal to advertise a specific job that is currently occupied unless the current employee has tendered notice or is been let go.

Where the person is been let go it must be through the proper process and appropiate notice given to said employee

Where the job is occupied but not on a full time basis the current employee must be informed of the intention(making the position full time,pensionable etc) of the advertisment and must be allowed to apply for the job on a full time basis

The situation with your wife is that she has passed her probation period and unless otherwise stated in her contract she is now a full time employee,the only way they would be breaking the law is that should an applicant be suscessful on foot of the advertisment and your wife were to be dismissed with appropiate notice she would have a case based on the fact of the above

an example from the courts

A person was employed as a vice principal of a school on a temporary basis,the full time position was advertised but he were not informed and when the new vice head was appointed the temp one was spoken to and told "thanks for your time" and was "demoted" back to teacher

as he was acting vice head he was not informed of the full time position so he took the school to the cleaners as he was not given the chance to apply for the job full time

Personally i dont think you have anything to worry about but try to get some record of it should anything come up in the next 6 months

Litcagral

gerrycollins wrote:

sorry i havent got any links for you but the law is under the minimun notice employment law

gerrycollins - this may be the link you refer to

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA4Y1973.html


(Minium Notice and Terms of Employment Act 1973)

nearlyhappy

Thanks guys....



nh

gerrycollins

Litcagral wrote:

gerrycollins - this may be the link you refer to

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA4Y1973.html


(Minium Notice and Terms of Employment Act 1973)

ya im a bit thick when it comes to doin that link thingy lol