A&E shambles

gazzer

My Aunt was brought into A & E in the Mater hospital on Tuesday lunchtime as she had numbness on the left hand side of her cheek, all down her arm and in the top of her leg.... I was down with her at lunchtime today and she is still in A & E.. 48 hours later.. its bloody disgraceful.. She had to sit on a chair up till 11pm last night when she finally got a trolley bed. Thankfully it is not too serious.. the doctor thinks that she might have had a very minor stroke... however there is still no word on if she will be put into a ward.

The place is in bits.. it is full of junkies falling all over the place, drunks asleep on the floor. There is one poor man in his 90's with parkinsons disease who has been lying on a trolley for about the same amount of time that my aunt has been there... What the hell is wrong with this country?? My aunt worked for 45 years, paid her taxes and PRSI and this is the service she gets.. it makes me so angry. I dont blame the nurses or doctors.. they are running around like headless chickens trying to attend to everyone.

Thankfully i havnt had to go to A&E in a long time.. i have read and listened to all the horror stories on the news but you really have to see it to believe it.

MrJoeSoap

gazzer wrote:

My Aunt was brought into A & E in the Mater hospital on Tuesday lunchtime as she had numbness on the left hand side of her cheek, all down her arm and in the top of her leg.... I was down with her at lunchtime today and she is still in A & E.. 48 hours later.. its bloody disgraceful.. She had to sit on a chair up till 11pm last night when she finally got a trolley bed. Thankfully it is not too serious.. the doctor thinks that she might have had a very minor stroke... however there is still no word on if she will be put into a ward.

The place is in bits.. it is full of junkies falling all over the place, drunks asleep on the floor. There is one poor man in his 90's with parkinsons disease who has been lying on a trolley for about the same amount of time that my aunt has been there... What the hell is wrong with this country?? My aunt worked for 45 years, paid her taxes and PRSI and this is the service she gets.. it makes me so angry. I dont blame the nurses or doctors.. they are running around like headless chickens trying to attend to everyone.

Thankfully i havnt had to go to A&E in a long time.. i have read and listened to all the horror stories on the news but you really have to see it to believe it.

I'm not having a go but it always takes a personal experience for someone to care about these things.

Theres no sign of things improving in the near future either.

b3t4

gazzer wrote:

I was down with her at lunchtime today and she is still in A & E.. 48 hours later..

Did your aunt go to her GP before heading to the A&E?

A.

gazzer

Yes.. she went to her GP first who told her to go straight to the hospital... which she did.

mloc

i was in the mater A+E a few months ago and there were people lying on blankets on the floor.

Later that same night, I was taken to Vincent's A+E and it was great, straight into a bed, no problem.

My point is, the Mater blows goats.

I read all the papers, I listen to lots radio and TV about A+E but I still don't know whose fault it is.

Listening to all the people involved it seems noone is to blame.

lostexpectation

do you have to have cash on you to go to the A+E vs the GP?

mloc

it seems to me to be a lack of beds in the main hospital, leading to a backlog in A+E. A+E should really only be a temporary area, noone should be there for more than 24 hours without either being discharged or moved to the main hospital.

fly_agaric

Very funny the way people try and blame the problems on the patients.:D
Sure, she went to A&E before going to the GP!
Sure, she was trying to avoid the GP fee by going to A&E!

Damn those bloody patients cluttering up the wonderful A&E's of Dublin, the bounty that the FFPD govt. provide! Sure if it wasn't for the Fianna Fail Tiger the doctors would be sewing people up in cowsheds and using dock leaves as bandages!

Esel

You will never see Bertie Ahern, Mary Harney or any other of those shams on a trolley in A&E. That is part of the problem. :mad:

New_Departure06

Solution:

A: Streamline admission procedures. Remove the requirement for 3 people (consultant, nurse and student doctor) to agree for someone to be admitted.

B: Longer working-hours for medical staff.

C: Maybe more beds.

Send the drunks to drunktanks!

Vorsprung

New_Departure06 wrote:

B: Longer working-hours for medical staff.

I hope you're not serious!!!!!!!!!!

Turner

Would there be any point in trying all the hospitals in Dublin and finding the least busy one.

She might get into a ward straight away in another hospital.

Muggy Dev

The people that care about the current sorry state of our health service are the professionals who work in it,the patients who have to suffer through it and their hard pressed relatives.In truth,this represents quite a small number of people in the overall scheme of things.The vast majority of us who are healthy and do not require hospital care have relegated this issue to the bottom of our collective "political wish list". In short,we don't give a toss! This,of course,suits the government who having thrown tons of money at the problem, are grateful the public are not asking too many awkward questions because they simply haven't a clue.

The crisis in the health service exists because we allow it to exist and it is for presisely this reason that it will continue.

bigjimthefirst

bigjimthefirst wrote:

I hope you're not serious!!!!!!!!!!

Having heard of staff working from Friday morning to Monday evening as one shift with next to no overtime, I should hope they're not serious

Vorsprung

bluewolf wrote:

Having heard of staff working from Friday morning to Monday evening as one shift with next to no overtime, I should hope they're not serious

That's not even the half of it!

Lump

gazzer wrote:

Yes.. she went to her GP first who told her to go straight to the hospital... which she did.

To be honest, and I'm not having a go, if the GP thought it was really serious, he'd have got an ambulance and your aunt would have been dealt with straight away, but obviously a lot of people were in A&E that day, I've had to go to A&E a few times in the UK And it's not much better, it's alway the case.... A&E = Long Queues.

John

Lump

fly_agaric wrote:

Very funny the way people try and blame the problems on the patients.:D
Sure, she went to A&E before going to the GP!
Sure, she was trying to avoid the GP fee by going to A&E!

Damn those bloody patients cluttering up the wonderful A&E's of Dublin, the bounty that the FFPD govt. provide! Sure if it wasn't for the Fianna Fail Tiger the doctors would be sewing people up in cowsheds and using dock leaves as bandages!

You're talking rubbish. People who are rich pay their GP, it's means tested, which I think is fair. It'd be great to have free health service for everyone. But look at the NHS, it's claimed that £5 Billion wouldn't get it out of debt, and it's losing millions every year.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1901828,00.html

I don't think it's wrong to ask people who can afford it to pay for Doctors. And if people can't afford it, they'll have a medical card.
John

lostexpectation

can't they just bill it to them after for the gp rather then cash on the spot, there all those people caught just over the threshold and the thought of paying 50 quid for a 5mins and a letter to be sent to the ER anyway

New_Departure06

bigjimthefirst wrote:

I hope you're not serious!!!!!!!!!!

I am actually.

Dirk Gently

New_Departure06 wrote:

I am actually.

No, you're not. Even if you think you are, your not.

fly_agaric

Lump wrote:

You're talking rubbish. People who are rich pay their GP, it's means tested, which I think is fair. It'd be great to have free health service for everyone. But look at the NHS, it's claimed that £5 Billion wouldn't get it out of debt, and it's losing millions every year.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1901828,00.html

Er...what has that go to do with what I posted? Absolutely nothing!
I don't have a problem with people having to pay their GP either - if they can afford it. What I was attacking was the implication that if the A&E is overcrowded it must always be the patient's fault, rather than the govt.'s fault and problems in the system (which, of course, the govt. ultimately has the responsibility to correct). A bit of common sense should be used - would you choose to sit in A&E for days, even for hours, when you could go to a GP instead?

mloc

in vincents gp there is a €60 fee, for simply requesting admitting. about the same as a GP. It must be paid by everyone.

simu

Muggy Dev wrote:

The people that care about the current sorry state of our health service are the professionals who work in it,the patients who have to suffer through it and their hard pressed relatives.In truth,this represents quite a small number of people in the overall scheme of things.The vast majority of us who are healthy and do not require hospital care have relegated this issue to the bottom of our collective "political wish list".

I have to disagree - most people would have contact with someone in the groups above. It's more that people are too lazy or have too litle faith in the government to put anything on their "political wish list"! (apart from those that increase amount of cash in pocket quickly)!

Dave!

Enda's new poster says he'll sort it out! I like that kind of thinking!

The Gnome

I've worked for the HSE and some of the stuff I've dealt with, particularly in A&E, was unreal. There were time when I was truly shocked at what I had read and the nonchalant attitude of my senior really aggrivated me.

Ok I have to stop before I lauch into a major rant...... grrrr:mad:

simu

DaveMcG wrote:

Enda's new poster says he'll sort it out! I like that kind of thinking!

Well, if Indeh says it then it's all grand. No need to worry. Back to munching the swiss roll or whatever!

gazzer

Just to let you all know. At 8pm yesterday my aunt got a bed in what is called a 'transit' ward. I presume it is a bridging ward between A&E and a normal ward.

Boggle

Ok I have to stop before I lauch into a major rant...... grrrr

Feel free to rant - the more we know about what is actually going on the better.

RE the longer hours - I would prefer shorter hours for individuals (more individual doctors, better rota's) but with longer hours being covered by the consultants. I could be mistaken but the consultants(more consultants) essentially work 9-5 mon-fri while the junior doc's work huge hours. Think about it - a truck driver can't work as many nours as a doctor by law.

Someone in politics needs to seriously talk to the people involved to find a solution instead of spending fortunes on pie in the sky reports. They should provide more places in medical school to provide more doctors... it's better to have an abundance of doctors that the current shortfall and a surplus of skilled workers coupled with realistic working hours should reduce the pay demands - especially among consultants.

I would also like to add that any nurse/doctor I know working in a hos does a great job DESPITE of the system - not because of it - and cannot be blamed for any of the problems...

(PS - only based on 2nd hand info so feel free to correct me)

Vorsprung

New_Departure06 wrote:

I am actually.

You want doctors and nurses to work MORE than they're working now?! Do you know how much they work?!?! Any idea whatsoever?

You're full of it mate

HelterSkelter

Lump wrote:

You're talking rubbish. People who are rich pay their GP, it's means tested, which I think is fair. It'd be great to have free health service for everyone. But look at the NHS, it's claimed that £5 Billion wouldn't get it out of debt, and it's losing millions every year.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1901828,00.html

I don't think it's wrong to ask people who can afford it to pay for Doctors. And if people can't afford it, they'll have a medical card.
John

His point is that a lot of people's initial reaction was to blame the OP's aunt for going to A&E by asking Q's like did she go to the GP first.

fly_agaric

The Gnome wrote:

Ok I have to stop before I lauch into a major rant...... grrrr:mad:

Better out than in sometimes I suppose, even if no one listens.

I'll have a go so...

IMO, there are capacity problems (we need more doctors, more beds) but it seems to me the last thing the govt. really wants to do is build more hospitals, or local health clinics, or pay to provide a ton more medical school places because it will cost lots and lots of tax payers' money. And alot is already being spent on health now.

Govt. thinking seems to be that all that extra public-spending on health is a bad thing - unless of course there is an equivalent or greater amount of private money involved there somewhere. Public bad - private good! Same as in every other area of the economy.

So the concentration is put on other aspects - "bed blockers" and uncaring relatives, drunks, ignorant people who should go to a GP instead of a hospital (assuming a GP is available...), militant and inflexible nurses, greedy consultants etc, etc.
i.e. blame it all on the patients or the way doctors/nurses work and look to efficiency increases to sort it out.

Seems alot of people on these boards accept this line.

I'm not saying these systemic things are not a big part of the problems but we constantly hear doctors and nurses saying they need more capacity (more hospitals, local clinics, more healthcare staff trained) and the population is undergoing a massive increase. I can't believe that they are all lying as a self-interested ploy to get more funding from govt while not taking the pain of changing the way they operate.

The other thing is, the constant attacks on nurses and doctors + trying to reform the way they work, while not trying to increase capacity is all stick - no carrot. I fear it will provoke a nasty war between Harney and the HSE and the doctors and nurses. Guess who will suffer while this war is being fought.:(

HelterSkelter

fly_agaric wrote:

...So the concentration is put on other aspects - "bed blockers" and uncaring relatives, drunks, ignorant people who should go to a GP instead of a hospital (assuming a GP is available...), militant and inflexible nurses, greedy consultants etc, etc.
i.e. blame it all on the patients or the way doctors/nurses work and look to efficiency increases to sort it out.

I spend a lot of time in hospital over the past few years and from what I can see the so-called "bed blockers" are actually a big problem. There are old people in there who were admitted for a good reason in the first place (needed an operation, etc) but have recovered enough to be discharged. However they are not well enough to look after themselves anymore (lots of them live alone and don't seem to have any family to look after them). There is absolutly nowhere to send these people so the hospital have no choice but to hold on to them.

fly_agaric

HelterSkelter wrote:

There is absolutly nowhere to send these people so the hospital have no choice but to hold on to them.

So we return again to govt. reluctance to spend taxpayers money unless private companies are paying in money too in the hope of a big gain at sometime in the future - hopeful of being the next NTR.

If only we could convince a few private companies or individuals to invest in the guards or the army, or our primary and secondary schools. Maybe the Garda or Army Uniform could have product logos on it, or the primary schools could be given corporate names [The RyanAir College, The CRH secondary school - reminds me of Fight Club:)] and the companies could set part of the syllabus and put product blurbs in the textbooks.

The "mini-consumer education suites" could be filled with advertising hoardings and the kids togged out in belogoed school uniforms.:D

Anyway, OP, I hope your Aunt is doing okay and getting what she needs.

Sam Vimes

New_Departure06 wrote:

Solution:
B: Longer working-hours for medical staff.

my uncle is an orthopedic surgeon. for him to work more hours he'd have to be living on a planet that has a 26 hour day. he brought masses of paperwork the last time he went to florida with his family. he didn't understand why my aunt was annoyed with him.

New_Departure06 wrote:

C: Maybe more beds.

MAYBE more beds?????????????????? there are people sleeping on the floor for days while the staff run around trying to treat twice as many people as the hospital was designed to hold. at a very minimum we need a new hospital in the city

New_Departure06 wrote:

Send the drunks to drunktanks!

a lot of the problems are caused by drunkards who have injured themselves but being drunkards doesn't mean they forfeit their right to medical care. possibly there should be a special section for them apart from A+E but you can't just send them to drunk tanks. the reason they're in A+E is they need medical attention

New_Departure06 wrote:

A: Streamline admission procedures. Remove the requirement for 3 people (consultant, nurse and student doctor) to agree for someone to be admitted.

a politician pointed out the flaw in this on today FM using an analagy with trains. if you have 200 people waiting at the station and the train can only hold 100, you can make the train drive faster and faster but there are still 100 people waiting at the station. his conclusion:

making the train drive faster keeps still keeps people waiting and makes an accident more likely

the answer is to add carriages to the train, i.e more capacity


the reason they have those procedures is because that's what it takes to run a hospital. when you go to medical school for years then you can tell them how to run it

Sam Vimes

fly_agaric wrote:

Very funny the way people try and blame the problems on the patients.:D
Sure, she went to A&E before going to the GP!
Sure, she was trying to avoid the GP fee by going to A&E!

Damn those bloody patients cluttering up the wonderful A&E's of Dublin, the bounty that the FFPD govt. provide! Sure if it wasn't for the Fianna Fail Tiger the doctors would be sewing people up in cowsheds and using dock leaves as bandages!

exactly, damn public getting sick. who do they think they are!!?!?!??!!?!

Sam Vimes

MrJoeSoap wrote:

I'm not having a go but it always takes a personal experience for someone to care about these things.

Theres no sign of things improving in the near future either.

and this is a core part of the problem. the kind of people who make the decisions in these matters go to private hospitals so they never have to experience their granny dieing after sitting next to a junkie for three days