BBC HD EPG from May 11th.

watty

Check your Sky boxes in ROI mode and UK mode from tonight. See if BBC HD is on the EPG.

If it is on UK EPG, but not on ROI EPG, then an ROI Sky HD sub is no use for BBC HD...

Probabily.

Skyuser

But just tune it in Other Channels. We're well used of it by now.

DigiDec

Freq for the BBC HD test is

10847 - V - 22 - 5/6

taken from BBC Website

Mredmond

DigiDec wrote:

Freq for the BBC HD test is

10847 - V - 22 - 5/6

taken from BBC Website

That's labelled BBC CI. (Presumably channel islands?) Is this the HD test?

ro2

There should one labelled 6940, that's the HD channel.

watty

no
The HD test is 5604 or something numeric. You need a very suitable DVB-s2 receiver. Not any FTA HD receiver. Nor Skystar PCI card.

watty

Skyuser wrote:

But just tune it in Other Channels. We're well used of it by now.

The point I'm making is that if you get it on an ROI EPG, it *WILL* work on an Sky HD box.

If it is NOT on a Sky ROI EPG, then it is probable that on a SkyHD box via other channels it will be downsampled to ordinary resolution.


It won't work on a non-HD receiver at all.


Read the above twice. Carefully.

Charles Slane

Also if it's not on the EPG, the Sky+ recording functions will not work for BBC HD, which is surely a major selling point for the new Sky HD box.

Skyuser

watty wrote:

If it is NOT on a Sky ROI EPG, then it is probable that on a SkyHD box via other channels it will be downsampled to ordinary resolution.

Why would it be downsampled. The channels on the epg are the exact channels from the frequencys on other channels.

eoinf

can anyone tell me if these can be used to get the bbc hd we got a few free couple of monthes back and was thinking of bringing one home ther a bit tempremental but id put up with it if i got the bbc hd the current hd channels are useless

Zaphod

The Quali-TVs are designed for MPEG2 DVB-S HDTV and are pretty much obsolete for future HDTV use.

The BBC transmissions, and all others including Sky, will be in H264 (MPEG4) DVB-S2, although the current BBC tests are in H264 DVB-S.

A PCI DVB-S card with the appropriate codec and high spec PC can be used to view the BBC tests. None of the commerically available H264 receivers can cope with the high bitrates and interlacing format. However, the Humax unit is very shortly due for a firmware upgrade which is expected to iron out these issues. Presumably the BBC will eventually transmit in a format which ensures compatibility with the maximum number of H264 boxes.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336223

enfant terrible

watty wrote:

The point I'm making is that if you get it on an ROI EPG, it *WILL* work on an Sky HD box.

If it is NOT on a Sky ROI EPG, then it is probable that on a SkyHD box via other channels it will be downsampled to ordinary resolution.


It won't work on a non-HD receiver at all.


Read the above twice. Carefully.

I have a UK FTV Sky Card,do you think that would work on the Sky HD box and give me BBC HD?

Skyuser

enfant terrible wrote:

I have a UK FTV Sky Card,do you think that would work on the Sky HD box and give me BBC HD?

Yes, even if you had no card in you can watch BBC HD. It's FTA, all you need it a HD Box and HD Ready TV.

Pat Gleeson

watty wrote:

Check your Sky boxes in ROI mode and UK mode from tonight. See if BBC HD is on the EPG.

If it is on UK EPG, but not on ROI EPG, then an ROI Sky HD sub is no use for BBC HD...

Probabily.

I note CITV is presently on the Sky ROI EPG.

I would'nt be a bit surprised to see CITV disappear eventually as did ITV 3,4 and CBBC and CBeebies (even though all we got on the last two were the 08 banner 'This programme is not available').

The same might happen with the BBC HD Channel.
I can just see it now - the very day my Sky HD box arrives is the day that the BBC HD Channel gets yanked from the EPG ...

eoinf

Zaphod wrote:

The Quali-TVs are designed for MPEG2 DVB-S HDTV and are pretty much obsolete for future HDTV use.

The BBC transmissions, and all others including Sky, will be in H264 (MPEG4) DVB-S2, although the current BBC tests are in H264 DVB-S.

A PCI DVB-S card with the appropriate codec and high spec PC can be used to view the BBC tests. None of the commerically available H264 receivers can cope with the high bitrates and interlacing format. However, the Humax unit is very shortly due for a firmware upgrade which is expected to iron out these issues. Presumably the BBC will eventually transmit in a format which ensures compatibility with the maximum number of H264 boxes.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336223

so id that a no

can i use my sky sat.

if so do i have to disconnect the skybox or can i run both at the same time

watty

Skyuser wrote:

Why would it be downsampled. The channels on the epg are the exact channels from the frequencys on other channels.

Because like Sky+ features on a Sky+ box (only record if on EPG and you have a Sky+ sub, EVEN if a FTA channel) the SkyHD box needs a SkyHD sub. Otherwise it will display HD channels, but even if FTA, will downsample them to ordinary resolution.

The Component video outlet will give HD only on non-protected channels. On "protected" channels HD is only available on HDMI connectors to TV sets with the decryption built in, otherwise Sky states the Component video output is downsampled to ordinary definition.

The suspicion is that unless you have (1) HD add on sub and (2) A channel on the EPG, the HD is not output, the signal is downsampled to ordinary definition.

This is a slight improvement on Sky+ which has no recording feature without a Sky+ sub.

Note that the SkyHD box is also a Sky+ and like Sky+ will not record at all without a Sky+ sub.

So your sub has the following parts:
* At least two mix packs
* Any premium channel(s)
* Sky+ sub to enable recording. Doesn't work on "Other Channels"
* SkyHD sub to enable HD output, otherwise ALL HD channel output in SD.

I suspect this box will eventually be the entry level Sky box, hence you can get it and just have an ordinary Sky Sub and ordinary TV.

Or get it and add Sky+ sub and not have the SkyHD sub till you buy an HD TV set.

watty

Skyuser wrote:

Yes, even if you had no card in you can watch BBC HD. It's FTA, all you need it a HD Box and HD Ready TV.

We don't know this is true till some confirms it. See above.

If with an ROI HD viewing card BBC HD is on EPG it will definately be viewable in HD.

Otherwise it *MIGHT* be downsampled to Standard Definition.

We need someone to test an SkyHD box on a FTA channel that is HD in Other channels that is NOT on the ROI EPG.

The Sky HD box will output ALL FTA HD, even on EPG in Standard Definition without a card or with no SkyHD sub addon.

watty

Zaphod wrote:

The Quali-TVs are designed for MPEG2 DVB-S HDTV and are pretty much obsolete for future HDTV use.

The BBC transmissions, and all others including Sky, will be in H264 (MPEG4) DVB-S2, although the current BBC tests are in H264 DVB-S.

A PCI DVB-S card with the appropriate codec and high spec PC can be used to view the BBC tests. None of the commerically available H264 receivers can cope with the high bitrates and interlacing format. However, the Humax unit is very shortly due for a firmware upgrade which is expected to iron out these issues. Presumably the BBC will eventually transmit in a format which ensures compatibility with the maximum number of H264 boxes.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336223

Forget a 2.4GHz celeron anyway, It can't do Astra HD test properly.

Where do you get the "suitable codec" for ProgDVB? My ProgDVB can't do anything with the BBC HD Test.


I'm getting a ATI X1600 and AMD 3700 CPU shortly and will test it on HDTV.

SRB

BBC HD will be FTA, no encryption. Should appear on 145 on UK Channel listings and EPG.

Mredmond

Guys,

As usual the more tekkie stuff leaves me well behind. What I'd like to clarify is:
With an ordinary Sky+ box (not a HD box) should I be able to add the BBC HD Test to other channels using the codes supplied at the top of the thread?

(What appears when I scan using "Add Channels" is a list of just two: BBC CI and BBC East)

Thanks.

Zaphod

eoinf wrote:

so id that a no

"No"

eoinf wrote:

can i use my sky sat.

Yes

eoinf wrote:

if so do i have to disconnect the skybox

Yes

eoinf wrote:

or can i run both at the same time

No

watty wrote:

Forget a 2.4GHz celeron anyway, It can't do Astra HD test properly.

The coreavc codec is supposed to be the best for not hogging resources.

watty wrote:

Where do you get the "suitable codec" for ProgDVB? My ProgDVB can't do anything with the BBC HD Test.

I think only the Mainconcept or Cyberlink codecs currently support MBAFF. Coreavc will support it shortly. The pro version of DVBviewer seems to be the one to use for BBC. ProgDVB doesn't work.

Alt. record the transport stream with TSReader and playback through the Cyberlink PowerDVD 7 codec.

Foggy43

Hi Watty,
I'm in the UK and BBC HD is not on the EPG. I have just gone through the channels list. I will keep an eye on 'WildSat' and see what comes up on 'New Channels'

Just some probable useless info!
I have been advised by a member of the media not to purchase a HD box until after May 22nd, the official launch date for HD. Where he got this info I do not know. I didn't ask him for anymore details as he had just been on a slow roast setting on London Underground. I just pumped him full with chilled water!

watty

BBC supposed to be on EPG on 11th.
BBC Programs from 15th May.

Sky launch on 22nd May.


Hmm. we need to wait and see!

Skyuser

watty wrote:

We don't know this is true till some confirms it. See above.

If with an ROI HD viewing card BBC HD is on EPG it will definately be viewable in HD.

Otherwise it *MIGHT* be downsampled to Standard Definition.

We need someone to test an SkyHD box on a FTA channel that is HD in Other channels that is NOT on the ROI EPG.

The Sky HD box will output ALL FTA HD, even on EPG in Standard Definition without a card or with no SkyHD sub addon.

Watty this has all been confirmed. Go to the BBC website and look up their HD page and even on Sky HD. On Sky website it says BBC HD is available without a HD subscription.
All ya need is a HD box and HD tv.

watty

Mredmond wrote:

Guys,

As usual the more tekkie stuff leaves me well behind. What I'd like to clarify is:
With an ordinary Sky+ box (not a HD box) should I be able to add the BBC HD Test to other channels using the codes supplied at the top of the thread?

(What appears when I scan using "Add Channels" is a list of just two: BBC CI and BBC East)

Thanks.

no.

Even if you could, it won't work at all.

BBC HD doesn't even work on some setups that can get other HDTV channels.

We are 100% sure that in UK on Sky HD box with a SkyHD sub from 22may you can watch BBC HD.

We are 100% sure that you can watch BBC HD on a PC now if it has all the right HW & SW and spec... (But the exact recipe is still unclear to me.. I hope to sort it withing next 10 days and have a definitive HowTo on the ICDGopedia).

We are 100% sure that there will later this year be a wider variety of FTA HD receivers and sat HD PVRs that will work with BBC HD. But not today.

We are 100% sure that only EPG channels and HDMI and a SkyHD sub is definately going to output actual HDTV on a SkyHD box rather than downsampled output*

No-one seems to know:
1) If BBC HD will permenantly be on ROI EPG (it seems unlikely).
2) If SkyHD box will actually output HD from Other Channels (seems it will downsample to Standard Definition).

* The Xbox360 and the lower end Sony PS3 have no HDMI. It is likely that the HDDVD and BDVD respectively will downsample to standard definition for video and only do HD for games. Only the 60G PS£ with HDMI will definately output HD films from BDVD.


Just looking at a beautifully styled 48" WS HD ready Plasma. Only 1400 Eur.

It gives RUBBISH pictures even on ORIDINARY TV! 864 x 480 lines. It is only NTSC lines of Native resolution! PAL DVD/Sat 576 line, HDTV 720 or 1080!


HDTV seems to be Arrow in back time for early adopters!

Zaphod

http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?t=59285&page=7

http://www.giusberto.ch/hdtv/

Mossy Monk

those Planet Earth screen shots are amazing. i am tempted to get some sort of HD setup going on the pc, even just for the BBC

Ulsterman 1690

I was passing by a certain well known electrical "megastore" chain this evening and there was a sign anouncing HDTV is here (or words to that effect)

Well since Ive been hearing HDTV since about 1984 I was kinda curious to see if it lives up to the hype so I took a dander inside.

Sure enough there were shedloads of "HD ready" sets Including a 60 inch plasma retailing for a cool seven grand (sterling)

But there was just one minor little nit picky flaw.

The pictures on these banks of TV's wasnt fed from a HD source
In fact It wasnt even Progressive
In fact It wasnt even RGB
In fact it wasnt even digital
In fact it was BBC1 analouge and the picture was obviously off an indoor aerial (or if it was outdoor there was a very dodgy connection.

I mean what kind of GOB$:rolleyes: I :rolleyes: €S feed a TV costing more than a brand new car from a £3.99 set top aerial ???

byte

I can't imagine it would be very cost effective to have an array of televisions running off HD receivers. Especially considering that SkyHD boxes aren't even released yet.

They could I suppose try Euro1080, or whatever that channel is called now, though I'm to believe this is also now subscription based?

Sparky

I have been watching most of the previews all day on my telly

Anyways im using various H.264 codecs, cyberlink being the best, so anyways I took a few screen grabs.

I also tried to record a .ts file, but something running in the background made it choppy, but it was playable in WMP10

http://www.sparky-s.ie/gallery/main.php/d/527-1/sparky-1.JPG
http://www.sparky-s.ie/gallery/main.php/d/530-1/sparky-2.JPG

There is a few tweaks I have to do to get most of it perfect.

Mossy Monk

whats your pc spec mr. s

Sparky

Mossy Monk wrote:

whats your pc spec mr. s

Amd X2 3800
1.5GB Ram

Using a Teratec 1200 dvb-s
and Home cinema 4

For some reason the cyberlink codec is causing errors now aswell as the intervideo one, the elecard codec seems to do most of the work.

Im going to try apples codec and see what that does.

Just a few more screengrabs
http://www.sparky-s.ie/gallery/main.php/d/533-1/sparky-3.JPG
http://www.sparky-s.ie/gallery/main.php/d/536-1/sparky-4.JPG
http://www.sparky-s.ie/gallery/main.php/d/539-1/sparky-5.JPG

Those are with the Elecard AVC codec, thats why you will notice 8 mini boxes on the top right

watty

Well back home and checked both ROI and UK Digiboxes.

No BBC HD EPG entry I can see. The BBC service is supposed to start on 15th May. Just a technical delay or EPG spat with Sky?


I'll be away all next week, so someone can check the EPG and post.

Interesting, Sparky-s

What graphics card are you using? Some can make 50% to 60% difference to CPU loading if GPU can do some of the H.264 work for the codec. (None have a complete HW codec, it is GPU assistance to a specific SW codec for the Graphics card.).

Sparky

Its an nvidia 6600gt.

Ulsterman 1690

I can't imagine it would be very cost effective to have an array of televisions running off HD receivers. Especially considering that SkyHD boxes aren't even released yet.

Surely the point of having the things on display is to demonstrate the benefits of HD. Even if no HD signal is available it still doesnt excuse feeding a HD set from a very poor analouge RF signal.

Besides there are a number of possible sources for HiDef apart from the Euro1080 service (and various other satellite tests) you already mention A pre recorded HDTV source could have been set up At the very least Digitally sourced progressive RGB could have been used as a stop-gap until a UK hi-def service starts with a card on each TV saying "Full HD service available from May XX"

Feeding a display of 14 inch portables from a set top aerial is unprofessional
Feeding a display of 48 and 60 inch HD ready plasmas in this way is grounds for hanging the person responsible and billing their family for the rope !

Zaphod

BBC HD on DVBViewer & filter graphs:
http://board.satbook.de/wbb/thread.php?postid=46750#post46750

Sparky

Anyone had any luck getting Discovery HD as its in the clear?

Ive scanned the transponder but nothing comes up

bk

watty wrote:

* The Xbox360 and the lower end Sony PS3 have no HDMI. It is likely that the HDDVD and BDVD respectively will downsample to standard definition for video and only do HD for games. Only the 60G PS£ with HDMI will definately output HD films from BDVD.

FYI most of the studios have announced that, at least initially, they won't be downsampling video.

That isn't to say that they won't at some future date, however given that there will be millions of PS3's without HDMI now, far more then actual HDDVD/BDVD players, it looks like it will be very hard for them to make an unpopular move of downsampling for many years to come.

watty

Zaphod wrote:

BBC HD on DVBViewer & filter graphs:
http://board.satbook.de/wbb/thread.php?postid=46750#post46750

Thanks..

Shortly I we will all collaborate on a ICDG article in the Wiki on HD FTA.

Zaphod

Sparky-s wrote:

Anyone had any luck getting Discovery HD as its in the clear?

Ive scanned the transponder but nothing comes up

It's in DVB-S2, not DVB-S!



For anyone who wants to try out the transport streams (.ts) in the links above, the mainconcept/elecard player and codec are the most straight forward method.
http://www.elecard.com/news/news_arch.php?nid=78

On my AMD2100 it's maxing out and the frame rate is still poor.
http://xs100.xs.to/xs100/06196/cpu.jpg

Headshot

iv a ftv card
if i get a hd free view box
will i get bbc hd

and if i can get it can any one recommand a hd box

Sparky

Zaphod wrote:

It's in DVB-S2, not DVB-S!

Ahh, I completely forgot.

watty

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote:

iv a ftv card
if i get a hd free view box
will i get bbc hd

and if i can get it can any one recommand a hd box

BBC HD is Free To Air...

There is yet no such box as a "hd free view box" for the UK.

("Freeview" is Digital terrestrial via an aerial and none of the boxes do even Terrestrial HD, except some the BBC giving out in London. Freesat the BBC/ITV box is not launching till 2007. Sky's "Free Sat From Sky" card only adds C4 and Five. For a Sky+ box or a SkyHD, you need a Sky+ sub to record, even with no sky package sub. For Sky HD, the output is only ordinary definition unless there is a SkyHD sub (on top of any or no package sub), the SkyHD sub is apparently needed to get actual HD output instead of SD output).

You don't need a card. Except for a SkyHD, for which a FTV card may be no use. Or maybe it will. It isn't clear. You may need a SkyHD sub for ANY HD output on a sKy HD box, even FTA HD geting downsampled otherwise.

If you can find a FTA non-Sky HD Receiver compatible with BBC HD, then no card or subscription is needed. However just right now the HD Receivers that work on Germand or Dutch TV seem to need an SW upgrade to work on BBC. Which is promissed really soon.

Maybe After the 22nd May we will know more.

It seems BBC cutting it a bit fine for World cup and Wimbleton for anyone other than UK Sky HD subscribers, due to lack of suitably configured receivers.

watty

Ask in a month or two and maybe someone can intelligently recommend a non-SkyHD box.

Headshot

thanks watty

its so ****ing frustrating

i would love to watch the world cup in hd


but i wouldnt pay an extra 15 euro no chance
by the way do sky sports have any world cup fixtures or is it just BBC again

watty ill look forward to your exact recipe on the right specs for a pc to get hd

Tony

Humax seem to first out of the blocks with a HD box with hard drive

Sparky

There is also a Pace on the go, that can get BBC HD.

I personally think I may get a DVB-S2 card, as I can watch BBC HD now (its just slighty choppy.
I made one core be the decoder and the other the viewer, its easier to see which uses alot of CPU power.

Im currently using the Cyberlink Codec as its really the best, but they have yet to make a codec that can take advantage of the nvidia hardware acceleration, they only do ATi at the moment. Hence my choppy video.

Headshot

Sparky-s wrote:

There is also a Pace on the go, that can get BBC HD.

.

you sure that can get bbc hd
i wouldnt think so


ill probly go down your road sparky and get my pc to pick up bbc hd

Sparky

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote:

you sure that can get bbc hd
i wouldnt think so

It should.
http://www.parabolic.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=241
http://www.quali-tv.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=48

Headshot

Sparky-s wrote:

It should.
http://www.parabolic.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=241
http://www.quali-tv.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=48

thanks sparky ill have to do some investigation before ill buy

can i have my fellow boards.ie members advice on this bbc box

watty

The pace DS810XE would appear to be the ONLY properly working solution for BBC HD FTA right now.

The Humax box is getting update firmware and then will be compatible and a better box.

THe BBC HD is ONLY a 1 year trail, so this time next year you might need a different receiver etc.. (probabily the ITV/BBC Freesat which will have EPG and interactive services).

See
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=370416