Anyone with experience......

Freedomfighter

Hi all,
I am not looking for legal advice just has anyone got experience with this problem.
Im living in a huge apartment complex and there is designated parking. Now i live in a two bedroom apartment but have only one space. When i signed the lease the letting agency said " you have a securied spot underground and one on ground level ". Signed the lease but after two days could not find the ground level parking spot. Called the landlord and he said " you only have one designated spot thats underground and you can park in the visitors spots no problem ". So my wife parked in the visitor spots but there are a limited number and was not always guaranteed a spot. She was clamped in a visitor spot twice as they were designated visitors spots.
Its a messy situation but has cost us both around 400 euro in clamping fines. Its that bad that i came home to collect something and was gone 10 minutes and was clamped when i came out to my car. The residence committee have meetings without telling all the residence and make these decisions without our knowledge. Its making life hell where i live. Has anyone any advice other then moving. Im at my wits end here.

FF

Eru

By no means an expert in this area however it would help clarify if you explained the parking more.

Do you require a key/buzzer/code/etc to access the parking lot or is it accessible without passing any secured points such as gates?

I know someone who had a similar problem but the underground was behind secure gates but some of the above parking was not. They could clamp inside the gates but felt pressure when clamping outside (A public place and road in my opinion).

Having said that, if its in your contract......

Freedomfighter

Its an open area as such. There are security gates but they are not for the apartments but the businesses around the area. Underground parking is not a problem its secured with a remote to open the gate. Its ground level parking thats the problem. The complex is run by a private managment company and is watched by a private clamping company. This is no exageration but if you park in a spot for five minutes you will be caught and clamped. Even in an emergency they dont care.
Now the managment people say we must rent a parking spot off them and its not cheap. Is there anything i can do here other then move out.
Any help will be amazing.
FF

Eru

OK, I thought I was clear but I obviously wasnt, allow me to rephrase.

Can you drive straight from the public roads into your apartment complex and park in a visitors space?

(Out of curiosity, if they are visitors spaces why clamped after 5 minutes?)

Freedomfighter

My apologies,
Yes you can drive straight from public roads into the complex. Thats actually the start of the problem. People were parking there and heading to the airport which is only five minutes up the road and heading off on holidays.
You are clamped after 5 minutes because they know your car and you being a resident in a visitors spot.

Eru

Access without restrictions is a public road and under the state authorities such as Garda, clampers, corporation, council, etc.

Management agencies will be getting a firm kick up the arse soon as well.

I presume Swords? Im thinking of the estate near the golf course? If so the parking around the Tesco express is a public road regardless of what any private company tries to say.

Lplated

My symptathies to FreedomFighter.

In the spirit of not giving advice, legal or otherwise, the following refers to a hypothetically similar situation.
If, when one signed a lease, the letting agent gave certain commitments with regard to parking, one is entitled to rely on them, whether or not they are expressly written into the contract.
My first recourse, were I in this situation, would be to go back to the letting agent and explain my problem. I would expect the letting agent to arrange the return to me the monies paid to release my clamped car.

My next recourse would be my landlord. The letting agent acts on his behalf. Any problems in relation to the management company, or changes by the management company/residents association, are not my problem, my contract is with my landlord. If there has been a change in the rules which necessitates a change in my contract, it is for the landlord to come and negotiate such change with me (assuming there isn't a clause in the contract that my lease is automatically subject to changes in the rules by the man co or res assoc).

In either case, my view would be strongly that I was being denied the full benefit of the contract that I had entered, to my severe financial detriment, and I would want to be restored to the position I should have been in immediately.

P.S. with reference to Karlito's view that 'access without restrictions is a public road' - this is incorrect - the division between public and private space is a matter of legal title (i.e. division of property on ownership documents), not the placing of restrictions.

padser

True, legally no difference in title and rights to clamp between place with a gate and without one afaik.

Being honest, if I was in the position described Id confront the landlord on it, request that he pay the two fines and supply you with a parking space above the ground.

Assuming you get nowhere with him the only course of action I can see would be to get a solicitor. It would appear to be a reasonable strong case for damages (specific performance probably not a possibility since it would appear the landlord is unable to provide you with a second parking space.)

On a more practical note put up a sign advertings to rent a second underground space. If you went to the small claims court or even the district court you could probably re coup the costs of that.

Bottom line unless your going to get co operation from landlord you have little alternitive but to get a solicitor.

Victor

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Access without restrictions is a public road and under the state authorities such as Garda, clampers, corporation, council, etc. Management agencies will be getting a firm kick up the arse soon as well.

Many new semi-Ds just have a driveway with no gate. Surely these aren't public roads?

Remember there are different definitions of "public", the relevant one being whether the road has been taken in charge and is maintained by the council.

While I suspect the Garda could do someone there for drunk / dangerous driving in this case, it is for the management company to manage the parking.

maidhc

The landlord (and letting agent as his agent) seem an obvious target for misrepresentation. The small claims court is no longer an option though; you must instead use the PRTB arbitration mechanism. (www.prtb.ie)

The Gardaí have no powers whatsoever to dictate how private land is used, that is the owners prerogative. If they choose to clamp there, provided they put up adequate notice they are entitled to do clamp all they want.

Eru

With all respect people, I enforce road traffic all the time and any place with free access is a public place under the legislation. In that case whats too stop a private clamper heading into an estate and declaring it private? Sorry but it doesnt work that way. For that matter, is you declare private then I presume you would accept your neighbours smashing their parents cars into yours without insurance? Remember, insurance is only required in public. For that matter, am I tresspassing when I enter an estate without someones permission? Of course not.

Can you please state legislation to back up your points instead of simple telling me I am wrong


Victor,
Thats the curtilage of your property and covered in the lease and/or deeds of the house.

Also, management companies have no legal basis and the SWP are actively talking about making them illegal.

maidhc

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

In that case whats too stop a private clamper heading into an estate and declaring it private?

The private clamper will be hired by the registered owners of the estate. This is often a managment company who will hold the common areas in trust for the residents. It is private by virtue of the piece of land being registered at the Land Registry Ofice or the registry of deeds, not by a company staking its claim.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Sorry but it doesnt work that way. For that matter, is you declare private then I presume you would accept your neighbours smashing their parents cars into yours without insurance? Remember, insurance is only required in public.

Insurance is only required yes, but it extends to private property also. If your car is damaged by a car without insurance on private property then you still have an action against the car owner, just no rich insurance company to rely upon.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

For that matter, am I tresspassing when I enter an estate without someones permission? Of course not.

You normally have implied consent, or alternatively there is a public right of way to pass and repass. The latter is the more likely.

I understand for the purposes of the RTA "public place" can extend into what is ostensibly private property in limited circumstances, but this does not have any application to the broader issue of property ownership, only to the places in which the gardaí can use their power. Thus for the purposes of the RTA a housing estate may be a public place yet be private property!