How much do you *really* care what other people think of your pictures?

elven

I may be making the mistake of being too honest in this post. But I'll just get on with it.

Someone left a comment on one of my pictures last night and it wasn't constructive, or positive in any way. (It wasn't a boardie, in case you're wondering, hehe...)

Anyway, I really had a difficult time not being annoyed about it, especially after I looked at the commenter's photos and they were all particularly dull, flat and bland. It make me think "What cheek!" and it made it even harder to shrug off.

How easy is it for everyone else to disregard negative comments (and by that I don't mean constructive criticism) and remain positive about your stuff? Can you happily put it down to taste and go on your merry way? And, does it make it better or worse if you consider their work to be particularly uninspiring?

Are you content in the knowledge that you are happy with your pictures, and it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say? If that's the case, then a) what's your motivation to post them online, and b) do you expect to improve without the input of others?

It's always nice when someone likes your stuff but I'd like to think that I can take some constructive criticism. Unfortunately a good critique is apparently beyond some people's inclinations and/or abilities. Is c&c a whole new art to be learned separately from the photography itself?

I've raised a few separate issues here. Hopefully it'll provoke some discussion, and I'll get some new views on the situation. Apologies if I've already missed a similar post from before I joined.

Any opinions?

Heinrich

Beauty in the eye of the beholder...

Opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one and they usually stink!

Why worry what strangers think?

ChityWest

Tell us who it was and we will all go and make negative comments on their page ! (joking)

If somone noticed something I missed or a way to improve something it shouldnt matter whether they have any impressive shots themselves.

Thats kind of in theory -thinking about it now and being honest I think comments people make can have more/less weight attached to them depending on whether you think that the person making the comments are good to begin with.

If it was the type of comment where somone was just trying to sound cool/snappy/condescending - I would just disregard it.

FreeAnd..

hey Elven, having seen your work I wouldn't worry about any comments that you dont think are fair criticism. If someone gives constructive advice then fair enough and you should be able to relate it to your work. You may agree or disagree with it but you should be able to understand where the person is coming from and this is where different tastes come through. If its just a load of b0llix then forget about it...and as i said having seen your work, it sounds like bullsh1t to me...

dalk

If you put your work in the public eye, then expect to encounter the full gamut of opinions (and critical ability) that an average cross section of people can hold. From the unreasonable, unfounded and deluded to the fair, reasoned and concise... And everything in between. As i have commented before on this forum, there is often little consensus on whats constitutes "good" art. It is subjective.

But really you answered your own question.

You really have to develop trust in your own opinion and judgement.

Accept that you are not going to be able to please everyone.

Accept that some people may not like your work.

Even worse, accept that some people may be completely indifferent to your work...:eek:

beans

Why worry what strangers think?

Because strangers aren't emotionally attached to your work, they come at it with a fresh opinion. It's very easy to see value in pictures you take yourself that may not be valid. Pics of a beautiful day might remind you of that beautiful day, but the pics themselves might be flat and uninteresting

You may get a lot of C&C saying "That's brilliant" or "That's rubbish", when the fact of the matter probably lies somewher between the two. I think we have to develop our sense of self-critique to be less masturbatory and more detatched, evaluating one's own picture for it's technical aspects. The emotional Whoomph that makes a picture stand out would be a very hard thing to measure oneself, I reckon. Thats when you have to start listening to the impressions of others I guess...

elven

I know my own feelings on this (well, sometimes anyway), but I wanted to find out yours

I can handle there being a huge range of taste and preference. After all, that's what makes the internet what it is. Indifference, expression of dislike and general apathy I can handle but if someone says something that's a technical judgement rather than a personal one, that is quite clearly incorrect, and missing the point entirely, I'm finding it difficult to not try and tell them how they are wrong. I know it's pointless because people with that attitude are always convinced they know better than everyone else. But before I go getting petty about it...

So anyway. Has everyone else managed to develop the trust in their own judgement? What do you use before you get to that stage? Who can you trust????

elven

Thanks Beans,

You've given me something else to think about...

dalk

elven wrote:

Has everyone else managed to develop the trust in their own judgement?

To an extent. I am usually certain that any pic i show (as opposed to taking) isn't bad, and that i like it. Beyond that... i am often surprised by the photos that people like, and which i wouldn't rate, so maybe i am not a good judge. But as the saying goes, i know what i like...

elven wrote:

What do you use before you get to that stage?

Spent (and still do) a good bit of time looking at other peoples photos. Looking at all the great photos from the past 100+ years gives me a good idea as to what a photo can be/express (not mine though unfortunately:o). You'll get a lot of interesting ideas just looking at others work.

elven wrote:

Who can you trust?

I don't trust people i know, because i think they are just being polite. I don't trust people on the internet because i think they are just trying to get you to look at (and praise) their pics in return... But isn't that a typically Irish thing anyway. SO i dont know the answer to that.

FinoBlad

elven wrote:

Are you content in the knowledge that you are happy with your pictures, and it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say? If that's the case, then a) what's your motivation to post them online, and b) do you expect to improve without the input of others?

I dont care at all.

(a)I dont post photos for critique.

(b)My missus and some close friends give the best critique from prints not 72dpi jpegs where every monitor is calibrated differently. In my mind there are no good or bad photographs, but some photographs make an impact on the viewer, others dont.

If you make it your priority to see as many exhibitions and flick through as many high quality books as you can, you'll develop your own critique skills and thats mostly all you need. Theres some good books on critique you can read also.

ChityWest

I do post them for critique. I think an independent persons take on them can be useful - they can see things that I dont notice for whatever reason.

I agree with you that monitors are calibrated differently - and prints are better - but thats not always possible and its quicker to just put them on the web. Sometimes you cant beat a fresh pair of eyes.

Seeing other peoples work is an excellent way to improve. Especially when you can ask them how they did this - or why they did something one way instead of another etc.

I think the whole point behind people posting their work here (for some people at least) is that they want to improve their technique and skills - and I think that this is helped by getting other peoples opinions and also trying to evaluate their work from a critical standpoint. It's all good

jaqian

Elven don't worry about those so called critiques. Your photos are outstanding.

I do understand though how a comment that is unbalanced can get under your skin no matter how silly it might be.

Just shrug it off don't waste your time thinking about it. A day or two and it'll fade.

Debbio69

i have to say i take it really really personally...

some rnadom guy insinuated that i copied a pic ot ouf a magazine!!!

i think you dont have anything contructive to say dont say anything at all...

im willing to get barred for the nxt person that disses my pics!!!

pokypoky

i think this is probably the most mature way of dealing with unfair criticism.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNIp-AKt16M&search=punch

Debbio69

well put. i know most ppl would think its immature to shout abuse at other ppl... but in all honestey i find it extremley calming and i tell you, if you ever have pent up agrression...just scream as loud as you can
it will make you feel soo much better!!! or do what i do and type obsenities!!
:cool:

Ruu_Old

I try not to get bothered by what people say about my pictures but yeah sometimes it annoys me when people arent constructive about it. I hate the whole "crap..NEXT PLEASE!" thing.

peepingtom

Debbio69 wrote:

i have to say i take it really really personally...

some rnadom guy insinuated that i copied a pic ot ouf a magazine!!!

i think you dont have anything contructive to say dont say anything at all...

im willing to get barred for the nxt person that disses my pics!!!

I remember that ..... the night picture one "Heineken"?

I think you took that a little too personally ... i actually think what he said was paying you a compliment by saying that it looked similar to a pic in a magazine.

which leads me on to my main point .... taking critisism on a forum is probably not the best way to go about it, as a persons tone might not come across as it would if face to face. I posted some pics up here last month for the first time, from my first digital slr outing ... i got a great reception from everyone, and a lot of encouragement .... however .... if someone came on and was less than encouraging, i am the type of person to take it to heart.

I really think if you are happy with a photo, and you have a decent grasp of what makes a good photo, then it will more than likely be a good photo if you decide to post it.

I think thats what i think anyway

Flipflip

If you display your work publicly then you have to be able to accept whatever people throw your way, everyone has the right to an opinion, sometimes unfortunately!

joolsveer

I have to say in all honesty that if I like a particular photo or if it has a meaning for me that I care if someone comes along and thrashes it particularly if their work doesn't inspire me. So it all depends if they know what they are talking about and can prove it by showing better examples. I have learned something useful at times though from people who have come down on my "snapshots" so it may not have been an entirely negative experience. By the way elven I think that the advice that you offer is very positive and helpful so I'm certainly not including you in the "threshers".

Fionn

honesty works i suppose, but a lot of inference and meaning can be lost in a few characters of text.
No one told me to sell the camera yet!!! but i hope i'm big enough to take the rough with the good stuff,
generally i don't let things get me down, perspective ya know?
main thing for me is that, even tho i'm new to it - I enjoy it, i'm not doing this for anyone else or for plaudits etc. or whatever. i'm doing this coz i like it and enjoy doing it.
To those who have offered advice and encouragement thank you

some of my stuff is here

to the rest: bring it on!

L31mr0d

Fionn wrote:

honesty works i suppose...

some of my stuff is here

yeah had a look, its rubbish. Not my kinda stuff at all.

EireRoadUser

I've loads of work to do ,to be comfortable actually using the camera in such a way that my shots will be ok.
critique is important to me because I'm only starting off at the moment .

Fajitas told me he liked one of my photos ,I liked it best myself but wasn't sure if it was the right track to take.

Fajitas!

I can honestly say that I do post up photos to show them off, but also for critique. In college, any work we do, whether it be photos, paintings, sculptures etc are presented up on a wall. I enjoy the interaction of discussing a piece, but what I dislike is "That's crap". Explain why it's crap, don't just say it is. Point out whats wrong with it so that the artist/photographer can learn from their mistakes. Even if it's good, I'd still like feedback about it.

To answer the question in the title, if a person dosn't like it, fair enough, why?

And I do feel the input of others can help your work.

Fionn

L31mr0d wrote:

yeah had a look, its rubbish. Not my kinda stuff at all.

lol........lol

i'm being entirely honest here.honest!!!

Fionn

Fajitas! wrote:

I can honestly say that I do post up photos to show them off, QUOTE]

i suppose everyone does, we all have egos, it's a human condition, i don't apologise for mine; it's nice to be recognised, applauded, vindicated and that.
i suppose any acknowledgement of our presence is welcomed
i think

then i've had a load of beer!!!

:rolleyes:

Zombrex

elven wrote:

Anyway, I really had a difficult time not being annoyed about it, especially after I looked at the commenter's photos and they were all particularly dull, flat and bland.

THe way to deal with that is be your own harshest critic. I think most of my photos should stay in a locked box. I only frame are display a small handful of the over all ones I've shot, and I can spot a lot of problems with them.

It does get slightly annoying when people post up shots that they obviously haven't self-criticed themselves at all. Its like the bad singers on Pop Idiol, you think "seriously, do you really think that is a good photo?" I think people sometimes feel that by the very fact they took a photo at all it is some how worthy of consideration by others, no matter how dull or boring it is.

I do always try and give helpful criticism though because, unlike singing, photography is a skill that can be improved by simple practice. Simply saying "nah thats crap" is rather pointless I think

Metacortex

I personally, don't care about critisism. I used to but not anymore. Its the reason i've started disbaling the comments on new images i upload to DevArt.

Someone might look at my images and see something they think could be changed but to me if i have posted the image up, its finished. Theres nothing more that can be done.

Fajitas!

But would you think about their comment next time it might bare relevance?

Metacortex

Fajitas! wrote:

But would you think about their comment next time it might bare relevance?

It depends. Personally, im making pictures for me not for anyone else so if i think a certain image is done, it is.
If someone else is looking for ways to improve they could take comments on board, this is what i used to do when i started taking pictures and it helped alot in the long run but its not something i really take on board anymore but then again it has been a while since i've had anything in the way of constructive comments

EireRoadUser

I've had a few drinks ,but I think comments are good even if they are bad ,maybe in venting your anger you might think of something that was dormant in the bruce wayne.

kcphoto

Hi Elven

I think everyone has a different feeling about criticism.
My own feeling is that some feedback is necessary, however some criticism will pick up on obvious things and miss the point completely so I really wouldn't take it too seriously.
The most important thing for me would be to feel that I'm getting close to taking the types of photo's I'm happy with (and I'm nowhere near yet!)
I had a look at your photos and I honestly thought they were very impressive, atmospheric and interesting.
I read a lot of the photo magazines and given that they have pages of photos, I find it is very rare to see something that is more than technically perfect and boring.
I really need to stop buying those magazines.

And yes I know beauty is in the eye... and all that, but for me, like I said, I really liked your photos.

Of course you now have to ignore this opinion and not take it too seriously !!