Which car would you buy?

WhatsGoingOn

Hi,

I am looking to buy a Diesel Saloon and have about 20k to spend. I want a car that will hold it's value well. Based on that, which of these would you choose?

Citroen C5

Ford Mondeo

mazda 6

Opel Vectra

Peugeot 407

VW Passat

Thanks.

greglo23

Definitely not the C5 as you cant give away older ones. either the Passat or the Mazda 6 would be first choice and then the Mondeo.

knifey_spoonie

The c5, vectra, mondeo, 407 will all lose buckets.

As for build quality there all iffy except the 6 and mondeo.Id say sacrafice the reg plate and you should be able to get a new shape avensis d4d (03).

Id say the avensis is the best bet, it will hold its value and if you want you could run it till its knackered (500,000MLS).


My two cents

WhatsGoingOn

knife_fighter wrote:

The c5, vectra, mondeo, 407 will all lose buckets.

As for build quality there all iffy except the 6 and mondeo.Id say sacrafice the reg plate and you should be able to get a new shape avensis d4d (03).

Id say the avensis is the best bet, it will hold its value and if you want you could run it till its knackered (500,000MLS).


My two cents

Cheers.
The reg plate doesn't bother me.
I just don't want to spend 20k on a car now that will only be worth only 10k in 2 or 3 years. I have also looked at the Golf TDi, I just think they are very overpriced.

crosstownk

Personally I would go for the Passat - best all rounder, reliable, good resale value, solid car, good safety features, nice drive and very comfortable.

Avensis would be my second choice.

Duiske

Although its not on the list, I would go with the lads and say the Avensis. Very reliable and a lovely drive. The quality on your list would definately be the Passat

WhatsGoingOn

Duiske_Lad wrote:

Although its not on the list, I would go with the lads and say the Avensis. Very reliable and a lovely drive. The quality on your list would definately be the Passat

Cheers.
I never even thought of an Avensis. I'll look into it.

ninty9er

I'm gonna go with the res and say Avensis D4-D. Even the Passat is devaluing faster than it these days.

Cheapest not always = Best

bazz26

WhatsGoingOn wrote:

Hi,

I am looking to buy a Diesel Saloon and have about 20k to spend. I want a car that will hold it's value well. Based on that, which of these would you choose?

Citroen C5

Ford Mondeo

mazda 6

Opel Vectra

Peugeot 407

VW Passat

Thanks.

The C5 diesel will not hold it's value well even though the HDi engine is generally a good all rounder. Not a big seller for Citroen in Ireland.

The 407 diesel seems to be holding it's value ok at the moment especially the 1.6 as it is very cheap to run. 2 year old ones are still fetching just around the €20k mark. It is hard to tell though if this can be sustained in 2 years time.

The Mondeo Zetec diesel (TDCi) is again a very good car but the Mondeo is one of the heaviest depreciators in this class of car. Great when your buying but painful when selling.

The Mazda 6 in diesel form is bit of a rarity but again a very good car and excellent to drive. Available in 120bhp and 136bhp, the latter being the one to go for. Not sure about long term resale value though.

The Opel Vectra 2.0 and 2.2 DTH diesels were made in house by GM and generally was not rated very well by the motoring world. Frugal but not very refined. The newer 1.9 from 2005 is made by Fiat and far superior in every way. Again generally the Vectra is a heavy depreciator.

The VW Passat TDi is probably the most popular diesel in this market segment. It is available in both 100bhp and 130bhp, the latter the one to get. Depreciation is low but now that the new model is well established the old one is starting to get cheaper. The only real downsides are that the car was designed about 9 years ago so the interior looks a bit dated now and main VW dealer servicing is expensive.

As others mentioned the Toyota Avensis is also available in 2.0 D4-D diesel and has 116bhp. You should be able to pick up a 2003 new shape D4-D model for around €20k. Their resale value is also very good.

knifey_spoonie

Where does the impression that vw are quality, they were 7-10 years ago but now they cant even match skoda for build quality.There not quality bit of the interior comes off in your hand.

maidhc

Buy a mondeo at the right price and you can't really go wrong. There are plenty about, and you should be able to bargain hard even for a TDCi 115.

The Avensis isn't a bad idea. The D4D is dead enough when the revs are low, but very good for overtaking. An old shape one should be a good bit cheaper than the new one, but is a much smaller car.

colm_mcm

maidhc wrote:

Buy a mondeo at the right price and you can't really go wrong. There are plenty about, and you should be able to bargain hard even for a TDCi 115.

The Avensis isn't a bad idea. The D4D is dead enough when the revs are low, but very good for overtaking. An old shape one should be a good bit cheaper than the new one, but is a much smaller car.

You're not gonna get much of a new shape Avensis D-4D for 20k

knifey_spoonie

colm_mcm wrote:

You're not gonna get much of a new shape Avensis D-4D for 20k

You might not get one from ye theiving yokes but ya should just manage to get an aura model which still gets a/c and cd ect.

Or if you wanted to save loads of €'s go for the old model avensis.Still wont break on ya.

Happy Hunting

boomshackala

03 diesel Avensis = 20 K?
Bought a 03 Diesel Vectra 11 K

Even if it devalues double you get the same depreciation and half the outlay. I don't understand this fatuation with depreciation when you take the initial cost into account

knifey_spoonie

The prices are decided by the market, In al honesty you would be pushing to get a avensis for €20k.

As to the 03 vectra for 11k it comes back to the old saying you get what you pay for.

ninty9er

knife_fighter wrote:

The prices are decided by the market, In al honesty you would be pushing to get a avensis for €20k.

As to the 03 vectra for 11k it comes back to the old saying you get what you pay for.

Must agree. Dad had a 1990 Carina up to 2001 and sold it within a week at asking price.
Bought a 1995 Vectra GLS with s/r, e/w, r/c/l for £1500 more. We couldn't shift the thing for love nor money 3 years later as nice as it was there's no market there and the Toyota was in all ways superior except for the small e/w c/l things.

Had to let it go for €1300 which is basically a base for cars these days (£1000). You'd pay more for a Micra or Starlet

colm_mcm

If I was getting an Avensis, it's have to be a Strata or Luna. Stratas will be just eyond the €20k mark.

You get what you pay for

ninty9er

Yeah go strata. The Luna didn't come in D4-D till 05 though. and it's 2.2 now also for the Luna for some reason

My religion teacher bought one in 04 and was gonna go for the Aura but I advised otherwise, thankfully he opted for the strata. He didn't take my advice on the colour. Does that "sea of platinum Avevsii" everywhere annoy anybody else.

The Tundra Grey is a beaut

maidhc

knife_fighter wrote:

As to the 03 vectra for 11k it comes back to the old saying you get what you pay for.

The Avensis isn't a particularly reliable car to be honest, and it has far worse roadholding than even the Mk1 mondeo. I'd agree with boomshackala, if you can buy a car at the right price secondhand it will offset the depreciation.

I don't know much about vectras, but I cant imagine there is much wrong with them.

colm_mcm

You don't seem to know much about Avensis's either....

unkel

maidhc wrote:

The Avensis isn't a particularly reliable car to be honest, and it has far worse roadholding than even the Mk1 mondeo

It's not a great car by any measure compared to its rivals, but reliable it sure is. As most Toyotas in Ireland, it is very expensive second hand. If I were in the market for a Toyota, I'd consider buying a brand new one

bazz26

maidhc wrote:

The Avensis isn't a particularly reliable car to be honest, and it has far worse roadholding than even the Mk1 mondeo. I'd agree with boomshackala, if you can buy a car at the right price secondhand it will offset the depreciation.

I don't know much about vectras, but I cant imagine there is much wrong with them.

Well I'm on my 2nd Avensis (had a 2001 old shape and now a 2003 new shape from new). Have put alot of mileage on them and never had any issues with them especially reliability wise. Yes they had an issue with the fly wheel on the early D4-D models and even that was only reported after 100k miles. If that is the only issue you have after 100k miles then you really haven't much to complain about to be honest.

As for poor road holding, yes the old model was a bit light on the road but hardly all over the place, the newer model is more refined, has tidy handling and very comfortable on long journeys. I still manage to get a good trade-in value on them even with above average mileage on the clock.

As for the Vectra, I bought a new one in 1999 and it was total rubish, numerous electrical problems, slugish, muppet aftersales service from Opel and terrible depreciation come selling time. Not my cup of tea from experience.

junkyard

I'd buy a Mondeo tbh, they're a great car, good spec etc., fairly good resale and I haven't come across any major problems so far. If I wasn't into cars in a big way I'd probably own one. Passat's are rubbish, unreliable, poor build quality and just bland. Toyota Avensis would be my second choice from a reliability and build quality point of view. Opel Vectra....what a horrible car in every respect, say no more. Peugeot 407 ugly looking DIY kit car. Citroen C6 a comfortable place to sit and wait for the AA in. The Mazda 6 is an O.K. car but parts are scandalous and they change models too often which directly affects resale values.

maidhc

colm_mcm wrote:

You don't seem to know much about Avensis's either....

Mother has gone through had two old shape, still has an 02D4D with 90k up that I drive a fair bit.

The 02 D4D got a new flywheel (at 60k), and 2x clutches (60k and 80k), the 99 2.0TD got a new head (50k or so), and suspenions all round (20k). Both have had a lot of niggly problems (e.g. rattles, oddments doors falling off). A friend has a 1.6 VVTi, that got a new engine at 20k.

They are very poor on back roads in comparison to the old mondeo (I got a hand me down 95 model from my mother when she bought the first avensis, I presume the new mondeos are even better). After driving a focus the Avensis feels like a barge, complete with an oversized steering wheel (its f-ing massive!). The gearbox is also a hit and miss affair, it has gone back to toyota a few times for adjustment and I know it isn't still right.

In the past few days the D4D has started making an omonious rattling noise on idle that suggests the flywheel may once again be on its way out, although it probably is just something loose in the engine bay.

The D4D also struggles to better 43mpg; and this is typical enough it seems.

They do hold their value though, no question about that. I would consider buying one new in light of Toyotas good customer care, but wouldnt be as pushed about a s/h one unless the price was in mondeo territory.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

and 2x clutches (60k and 80k), the 99 2.0TD got a new head (50k or so), and suspenions all round (20k). Both have had a lot of niggly problems (e.g. rattles, oddments doors falling off). A friend has a 1.6 VVTi, that got a new engine at 20k

OMFG - that's shocking :eek:

Are the people around you just extremely unlucky, or is there something else? I know there are a lot of people out there still that reckon that if you buy a '06 VW or Mercedes, you'll get the best build quality in the world. Unfortunately this is not the case. I never imagined Toyota would be on the same path?

boomshackala

agreed the mondeo is a better car than the vectra....but boring tho...in fact all cars mentioned here are!

Big Nelly

Im here again and yes again I would say the Passat, great car...reliable, good engines etc. Had a baseline 90Bhp which I had bought last year and loved the thing but wanted a comfortline. So this year got my a 02 130Bhp model with all the extras. Can be seen at link below. They are mental fast compared to the 90Bhp models and if you get english import like me get 10 times more extra than a Irish model. Heated seats etc. Also they hold there value. I sold my 00 Model and lost 500 quid on it over the year and put 20k onto it. Not bad going if you ask me.

Oh yeah the milage on these are great!!!

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=363095

Older car: http://www.vkmotorsonline.com/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=405695

maidhc

unkel wrote:

OMFG - that's shocking :eek:

Are the people around you just extremely unlucky, or is there something else?

The 99 car is still being used locally as a cab, so I suspect it stopped giving problems at some stage. Toyota paid for both clutches in the D4D, even though it at 80k it was out of warranty; they accepted it shouldn't have happened and it wasnt due to driver error.

I think we have probably been unlucky, and managed to be hit by every possible "common" problem that an Avensis can have. Strange when you consider the last time my mother had a problem with a car it was a fiat 126 bambino!

mkdon05

I think you shoul ditch all these ideas, and treat yourself to a nice 02 BMW 316, they hold there value better than them all, and you get a fantastic drive!, i bought one about a month ago, and ill never drive anything else now! Here's a nice one, http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=367791

Big Nelly

mkdon05 wrote:

I think you shoul ditch all these ideas, and treat yourself to a nice 02 BMW 316, they hold there value better than them all, and you get a fantastic drive!, i bought one about a month ago, and ill never drive anything else now! Here's a nice one, http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=367791

1.9 Petrol and the price of petrol these days?

mkdon05

The price of petrol doesn't compare to the amazing drive you get!! You can still pick up a nice 1.6 beemer too though!

WhatsGoingOn

boomshackala wrote:

agreed the mondeo is a better car than the vectra....but boring tho...in fact all cars mentioned here are!

Thanks for all the replies. Agreeing with boomshackla about the boring part though, so looking into a new SEAT Leon TDi. Bit above budget and not a saloon as I mentioned above, but I'm hoping to get a demo model which should knock a bit off the list price.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=407759

mkdon05

Seat are one of the worst for holding their value, serious depreciation on them, be warned. Purely for resale value, you can only chose, mercedes, bmw, toyota, or vw.

Big Nelly

WhatsGoingOn wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Agreeing with boomshackla about the boring part though, so looking into a new SEAT Leon TDi. Bit above budget and not a saloon as I mentioned above, but I'm hoping to get a demo model which should knock a bit off the list price.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=407759

The Seat is a poor mans Passat, they take all the good stuff off the Passat and shove everything else into Seats and Octavia's

michaelanthony

BMW 530d

maidhc

Big Nelly wrote:

The Seat is a poor mans Passat, they take all the good stuff off the Passat and shove everything else into Seats and Octavia's

Good stuff? I'd say about 80% of Passats in this country as as low specced or lower than their Seat and Skoda counterparts.

Mc-BigE

Big Nelly wrote:

The Seat is a poor mans Passat, they take all the good stuff off the Passat and shove everything else into Seats and Octavia's

here we go again! the skoda bashers back!:)

tred

Mc-BigE wrote:

here we go again! the skoda bashers back!:)

I have a Mondeo TDCI 130 BHP GHIA X. I was seceptical a little at the start when I bought it, but i love this car. Its so comfortable. Leather seats electric everything. I have gotten 55MPG from galway to dublin on a regular basis. Getting 40MPg around town. Ill be changing selling her on this year and getting the same car again, it still has a years Ford warranty on it so keep an eye on Boards!!!...

phoenix_nights

Mc-BigE wrote:

here we go again! the skoda bashers back!:)

Or go for a Alfa 156. Great cars.

colm_mcm

Yeah a 156! no common problems at all!

Stastically Avensis is very reliable. and I rarely see them with the problems that are common on european cars.

knifey_spoonie

Big Nelly wrote:

The Seat is a poor mans Passat, they take all the good stuff off the Passat and shove everything else into Seats and Octavia's

Yeah and the skoda is a better built VW.

As to maidhc's avensis those problems are very unusual, ive just seen an avensis with 130K on it and it just got 2 services and the oil toped up.The car was still running fine, now try that in a mondeo or passat and you will end you with the remains of a car.

WhatsGoingOn

phoenix_nights wrote:

Or go for a Alfa 156. Great cars.

I already have one, I'm getting rid of it, heart would like a new one, but head says no.

colm_mcm

knife_fighter wrote:

ive just seen an avensis with 130K on it and it just got 2 services and the oil toped up.The car was still running fine, .

so, are ye going to retail it?

WhatsGoingOn

mkdon05 wrote:

Seat are one of the worst for holding their value, serious depreciation on them, be warned. Purely for resale value, you can only chose, mercedes, bmw, toyota, or vw.

This months 'Test Drive' magazine compares 9 hatchback diesels. Merc A180, Peugeot 307, Megane, Astra, C4, Focus, Civic, Golf and Leon. Of all of them, they say that the Leon will hold it's value best over 3 years. And it is definitely the sportiest looking of all of them.

colm_mcm

UK and Ireland are completely different markets.

knifey_spoonie

colm_mcm wrote:

so, are ye going to retail it?

Nah it was in for its 3rd service

colm_mcm

knife_fighter wrote:

Nah it was in for its 3rd service

3 out of 13 isn't bad!

ninty9er

colm_mcm wrote:

UK and Ireland are completely different markets.

I couldn't agree more. The Golf and Merc will hold more value here,

I think VWs are depreciating faster over the last 12 months though, the Polo being the exception

boomshackala

Here's a different way of looking at it... There is a better re-sale market for diesels than petrols especially in this segment, hence I would'nt be too bothered about brand rasther engine and which one was more frugal at that. To further reinforce that argument, the savings on fuel consumption on diesel will outweigh interbrand depreciation...

maidhc

ninty9er wrote:

I couldn't agree more. The Golf and Merc will hold more value here,

A merc won't hold its value better than an avensis or passat. It may retain a greater % of its value, but you will still loose more cash on it.

Big Nelly

knife_fighter wrote:

Yeah and the skoda is a better built VW.

Where did you hear that gem? seeing as VW build the Skoda why would you think they would build there own version of the Skoda worse? the Passat are better built with more expensive parts, more extras etc.

As to maidhc's avensis those problems are very unusual, ive just seen an avensis with 130K on it and it just got 2 services and the oil toped up.The car was still running fine, now try that in a mondeo or passat and you will end you with the remains of a car.

Another gem, dont think you have a clue what you are talking about to be honest, have seen alot of Passat over the last while, last year when I was buying first one and this year again, with all sorts of milage and any of them that was kept in proper order where running like a dream. I wonder why alot of taxi men use Passats? is that because after a few miles they fall apart? I dont think so, its because you can rely on the engine to do well over 150k miles and still not have a problem.

130K car and only 2 services? do you know how often that car should be serviced? it should average about 10k which is what I service all my cars at but with new oils some people leave it till 20k. So you think a car that has been serviced twice over 130k is running fine? it would have 2 services for the timing belt alone.