bitchcraft

joseph dawton

To my dismay I see infighting going on in the Druid community at present which is not only a shame but laughable.

There seems to be a lot of that and Ego clashes in Wicca also. It's all a bit bizarre and makes me wonder if some of the so called enlightened are bit like polititians - if you want to be one you're not suited to the job. All the conflict does is show these 'gurus' up as self-important, intolerant and lacking in self-control.

Perhaps instead of bickering over minute points of practice/doctrine we should be doing what's really important and concentrating on the spiritual journey? It reminds me of the bit in Life of Brian where the PFJ and JPF meet in the sewer under Pilate's palace and do each other in. Ahhh, was it not ever thus?

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Nevyn

I am certainly not aware of anything currently going on in those circles.
People are people where there are people there is politics and conflicting ideas,
few people are that enlightened

akari no ryu

I must say, I am equally confused.
I attend the moots fairly regularly these days and I've seen a lot of ego stroking from all quarters. That's to be expected when you get a group of people with different world views and stick them in a room together for a few hours.

Personally, I think Joseph's claim falls under a "positive assertion" placing him distinctly under "Burden of Proof". I'd, personally, love to see this proof as if this were GaiaOnline.com and not boards.ie I'd instantly assume he was trolling and the rules there stipulate that logical fallacies are prohibited.

Nevyn

There are many and there are old old personal disagreements between people
in both the wiccan and druidic and the pagan community at large.

These disagreement tend to be arising from interpersonal matters and I certianly do not want
old gossip or dirty laundry air here; but there is room for the a dissucion about how the community may hopefull grow and learn.

akari no ryu there are many who simply choose to absent themselves from the moots
rather then end up head to head in heated arguements that get personal.
I remember when the moots were a lot better attended and being more of a lively active debate
with many rescources sited and quoted rather then a gentle disscussion.

joseph dawton

I don't want to name people but there is conflict involving 3 groups that's all I want to divulge,I would imagine that unless you are involved in Druidry you are unlikely to know about it. The specific details are not important.

My point is that it is shame that inflated egos and self-importance get in the way of community and shared spiritual experience. Of course people have disagreements but hopefully when problems arise they can be resolved or people can agree to disagree in a civilised manner. I feel that it is huge egos that usually prevents this from happening.

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scorplett

Joseph,
There are often disputes within and amongst various differing pagan circles. This is and always has been, because unfortunatley this is not a make believe role-play world (as much as we often wish it would be). The real world is full of real people where even the elders you respect the most can make mistakes and, get personal.
These disputes seem most prominant within 'grouping' traditions, such as druid groves and wiccan covens. Usually within these traditions there is a local established hirearchey (such as a HPs and HP in wicca or Arch Druid/ess in groves) These traditions weren't really meant to be out in the wider community, they evolved in nuclear communities and the structures that hold the traditions togeather fall to peices outside of the group.
Yes there is always ego involved in these things. But dont be too quick to see ego out of context. Without ego there is no morality, without ego no one to lead, no one to teach, no one to push the boundries and do something new. Without ego you would not be posting this and none of us would have posted replys. Ego is not a bad thing, it takes a lot to balance it and keep it balanced, but its not bad... These bitchey sessions often serve a higher purpose, that is that those who witness such happening can see what they dont want to be involved with (which is often easier to see that the things you do want to be involved with)
What you do in reaction to it is entireley up to you as it is funnily enough, part of your journey and not an ignorance of it.
Best of luck

joseph dawton

Thanks, I see your point and what you say is right. Difficulties can present a valuable lesson. Keeping the ego balanced is the difficult bit, but isn't that true of all things in life! If we could all live in perfect balance the world would be without problems.

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Nevyn

If we could all live in perfect balance the world would be without problems.

Tis a nice idea but I really can't say I would like for that to happen,
there would be no progress.

joseph dawton

I guess the world would be stagnant without shifts in equilibrium from one pole to another, all of life seems to be like that - male/female, light/dark, life/death etc. That's something Taoism and western esoteric mysteries have in common.

The big problem for western people I think is that we have gone too far done the road of individualism and become very detached from the natural world. I think most people today live within the illusion created by human social patterns and hence are out of balance with the real world and their inner selves, something that takes a lot of work to correct.

I think it's ironic that other cultures that have historically been more balanced are rapidly adopting our way of life and so automatically inherit the same imbalance, just at the very time when many in western culture are attempting to shift towards a more holistic way of living.

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Nevyn

That certainly is one way at looking at it, I think that many people strive to conform
and to make themselve and thier lifes seem to run a certain way even down to fooling themselves
about the mental, emotional and spiritual well being.

Yes we strive to walk the middle path but there are times you have to go to the extremes of either side
to learns lessons about yourself and how you cope with things and why certain things are not a good idea.

I would tend to think as those who are striving towards enlightenment as looking out for those lessons
when they happend and taking time out to evauluate them and learn from them.
This can take a very long time from months to year to several life times.
Just because someone is an elder or noted communtiy memeber or leader does not mean they are prefect or they don't still have thier own lessons on thier path and in this life time.