Moshing = Assault???

killswitch

I heard a rumour about this. Apparrently you can now be arrested for moshing as it is considered physical assault. Anyone know if this is true?

( Mind you, I don't think that it will stop anyone from starting a pit )

Merrick

.... is that true?
True or not, it will never ever stop anyone from starting a pit.

Doctor J

*Puts on old man's hat*

Depends if the person on the end of it was a participant or not, I suppose. If someone not involved in the pit catches a fist in the face you've got to say they're entitled to retribution. The buggers who flail about with elbows up deserve everthing they've got coming to them tbh. A gig is for everyone to enjoy, not just the people who want to mosh and sometimes people lose the run of themselves and hurt people who aren't into moshing, who were just standing around watching the gig their own way.

ferdi

Doctor J wrote:

The buggers who flail about with elbows up deserve everthing they've got coming to them tbh.

:mad: god i hate those bastards, its always a few huge long-haired shirtless sweaty cvnts doing this. i find a few hard sly kicks to the spin sorts them out.

killswitch

This is true. Sure one little **** in a "Bullet for my Valentine" tshirt nearly dislocated my knee after he jumped in and kicked me in the side of the leg during "Slipknot's" gig in the RDS. Little ****er got what was coming to him though if you know what I mean

projectmayhem

killswitch wrote:

Little ****er got what was coming to him though if you know what I mean

an assault?

Ph3n0m

ferdi wrote:

:mad: god i hate those bastards, its always a few huge long-haired shirtless sweaty cvnts doing this. i find a few hard sly kicks to the spin sorts them out.

Normally it sweaty, skinheads that do that - atleast back in my day it was.

senordingdong

Yes, it is illeagal.

Mushy

Sometimes i like to mosh, but i never try and go into anyone who isnt joining in. I was kicked out of the pit at Foos in the Point for doing it. Fair nuf i suppose. But wouldnt do it at every gig! not really surprised its included as assault. make me think twice now. All depends on band though

killswitch

i can imagine whats goin to happen at metallica with a lineup like the one thats at that

trivium

its not assault,if someone gets injured its classed as accidental unless its proved there was recklessness involved which ultimately is too hard to prove at a gig:cool:

Mushy

Killswitch wrote:

i can imagine whats goin to happen at metallica with a lineup like the one thats at that

Personally, i intend for no moshing by me. I more intend to be crushed up at the barrier for a long while

Cactus Col

What do people class as moshing these days anyway?

Crucifix

Once my conduct in the pit got me thrown out, not just of the pit, but of the whole concert. Which sounds much cooler than it was, I wasn't really doing anything.
Ahem. I much prefer head banging, singing along, throwing up the horns, et cetera to moshing. I don't mind being bumped around a bit, but after a few punchs in the head I get pretty tired of it.

Drummo

Cactus Col wrote:

What do people class as moshing these days anyway?

For me, it's jumpin about,

Crucifix wrote:

head banging, singing along, throwing up the horns,

all in high spirits. As soon the elbows go up or you put all your body weight into launchin some dude half way across the pit - and probably into the elbows of the forementioned - you not moshing. You're being a d*ck!

Karl Hungus

Moshing isn't assault.
Assault is assault.

Moshing is one thing, it's some great fun to get into a pit and get some serious bangin' about, all in good fun. But there is a seriously large difference between moshing, and some scumbag who'll go into a pit with the sole intention of causing bodily harm. Scum like that deserve everything they get, because it's an extremely cowardly act to go into a pit with elbows firing, the mentality that you can get a few punches and elbows into someone and they mightn't be able to see who did in such a frantic situation, well... it's just scum.

I once had my nose ring torn out at a gig, so I grabbed the shirtless wonder who did it, and gave him a headbutt for his troubles. Stupid bastard was carried out of there bleeding. Another time, someone managed to give me a kick right into the chest, and bowl me over. Never caught who did it though.

Nevyn

Pits have gotten nastier over the last 5 years, I certainly do keep clear just for the sake of other peoples safety.

senordingdong

Though the satisfaction of seeing one of these types beign dragged out of the pit is very pleasing.

RedRaven

Thaedydal wrote:

Pits have gotten nastier over the last 5 years, I certainly do keep clear just for the sake of other peoples safety.

You are joking of course!!!

Pits are no longer what they used to be...Slayer...BodyCount...Sepultura...Carcass all of these pits were literally fights for survival...serious violence!!!

Doctor J

Fights for survival? Not as I recall. Back in the day (late 80's), if anyone went down everybody made room and made sure they got up alright. There was an awful lot of energy and friendly violence but there wasn't the sneaky sort of ****ehawkery I often see in pits today. They were not for the feint-hearted but if anybody got in trouble they were helped out.

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

Fights for survival? Not as I recall. Back in the day (late 80's), if anyone went down everybody made room and made sure they got up alright. There was an awful lot of energy and friendly violence but there wasn't the sneaky sort of ****ehawkery I often see in pits today. They were not for the feint-hearted but if anybody got in trouble they were helped out.

aye totally agree - this tosh about pits being violent is quite laughable. However nowadays they are more violent then what we old people used to do. Sure you came out with the odd bruise and maybe a missing shoe, but it was all in good fun. These days I see kids barrelling into the pit, throwing punches and kicks left right and center.

It like at Ozzfest, these idiots were doing their extreme violence bit during System of a Down - then they tried it again with the old schoolers during Slayer - needless to say this was "frowned upon" - with several fools being dumped out of the pit at high speed.

The pit was always about good friendly (not serious)violent fun - I've seen some injuries at recent gigs that make even me wince

munkeehaven

i'm usually able to handle the pit but when you wear glasses there is an extra liability...not much fun watching a band play half-blind

senordingdong

Ph3n0m wrote:

The pit was always about good friendly (not serious)violent fun - I've seen some injuries at recent gigs that make even me wince

It still can be in fairness...it's not right to generalise like that!

gline

nah, moshing is not assault
only if the idiot has an intent to seriously hurt someone else.

basically if u enter a pit you do at your own risk, you know there is a chance that you "might" get hurt but not too badly.... but it doesnt give sly bas***ds an excuse for a free dig. i have seen a few sly scumbags being "punished" in pits for what they did and it serves them right

also it depends on what band you are seeing on what type of behaviour goes on in pits... i do agre that the general crowd at bands that have been around awhile or most death/black metal bands know how to handle themselves properly without digging the head of others

Tar.Aldarion

If it is assault it is assault. That is not moshing to me. However, when I get the odd punch/ sent flying across the floor I would not call assault. I like it.

pbsuxok1znja4r

Karl Hungus wrote:

Another time, someone managed to give me a kick right into the chest, and bowl me over.

Wtf? That's some high-kickin' kung-fu shit to be pullin' off in the middle of a pit. I think harm caused in a pit should really only be assualt insofar as the victim would consider it to be, i.e. most people who engage in moshing in the first place would most likely consider it an "occupational hazard", as it were and shrug it off, or else exact retribution, like you did.
Bottom line, feint-hearted squealers should know not to enter pits in the first place. As well as that, the nasty variety of violent mosher should get what he gives.

Civilian_Target

Ph3n0m wrote:

These days I see kids barrelling into the pit, throwing punches and kicks left right and center.

It like at Ozzfest, these idiots were doing their extreme violence bit during System of a Down

To be fair - I rarely see this, but it is more prevalent in Ireland than on the continent, and it's sadly the norm in America

I would be a big fan of bouncing people about, but I'm big enough that I don't need elbows. If someone falls down, I'll help pick them up, and I've always been picked up, but at the end of the day, moshing's violent, people are going to get hurt!

Patricide

To be honest the problem is theese scumbags getting the wrong idea bout pits in the first place i mean theres moshing, and then theres dudes throwing random puches and kicks at head height, There was this one retard at slipknot and he killed a perfecly good pit, he went into the middle of it and started flaling his arms around.when the pit died down a bit though a freind of mine gave him some kidney punch and told him to calm the **** down needless to say he didnt do it again.

c - 13

I think more people are going to metal gigs simply to try and get the chance to get in a few sly digs in the pit.

For example at In Flames there recently I was wathcing a pit start up slightly behind me and I saw people dragged in who obviously wanted nothing to do with it, shortly afterwards I saw some fella out of the pit squaring up to a french lad I had been talking to earlier. I see no reason for this sort of crap.

On a seperate note, slayer in ozzfest was one of the best pits I have ever been in IMHO, it was great, I was only about 16 at the time mind you but being in there with all these big biker types was an experience in itself.

Looking back at it they knew how to mosh, no flailing arms, no elbows, and always stopped to drag someone back up. Thats how it should be.

Ph3n0m

c - 13 wrote:

On a seperate note, slayer in ozzfest was one of the best pits I have ever been in IMHO, it was great, I was only about 16 at the time mind you but being in there with all these big biker types was an experience in itself.

exactly

c - 13

Actually another incident worth of mention was at Hatebreed last year, there was a guy standing in the middle of the pit drinking from a glass pint glass and moshing, i mean WTF ?

Glass pint glass probably the stupidest phrase in the world

Hellrazer

IMO I do think moshes have gotten more violent.

Back in my day if you went down you were dragged back up by the crowd--now its just fooked up.

Last gig I was at I went down and got a few kicks in the ribs for my troubles by what Karl Hungus describes as 2 "scumbags" who were just out to cause a row.
Another mate of mine got a kick in the face when he fell and lost 2 teeth.

Then again maybes its the age thing--Im not able to keep up with these young uns anymore.

super_furry

Moshes have definately got more violent. I remember being a 15/16 year old kid going to the Sunstrokes and jumping into moshes with huge hairy lads twice my age, I got knocked on my arse a lot and everytime I did, someone helped me back up. People looked after each other and there was none of this elbowing/punching crap going on.

I was rabbit punched by this one dickhead during System of a Down at Ozzfest, I confronted him and he legged it. Ten minutes later he shoved some girl into a developing pit who wanted nothing to do with it a mate and I had a quite 'word' with him and that was the last I saw of him.

Patricide

super_furry wrote:

Moshes have definately got more violent. I remember being a 15/16 year old kid going to the Sunstrokes and jumping into moshes with huge hairy lads twice my age, I got knocked on my arse a lot and everytime I did, someone helped me back up. People looked after each other and there was none of this elbowing/punching crap going on.

I was rabbit punched by this one dickhead during System of a Down at Ozzfest, I confronted him and he legged it. Ten minutes later he shoved some girl into a developing pit who wanted nothing to do with it a mate and I had a quite 'word' with him and that was the last I saw of him.

Yea, Exactly.My first pit was at ozzfest and i was only 12 or 13, I was more scared than i had ever been in my life and in my second or third pit of the day i fell straight down. I thought i was ****ed but dudes lifted me straight up.Someone should deffinatly teach people pit Etequate.

Numina

Seems worthy of mentioning this, at Iron Maiden last year, During MM's set, there was a 15/16 years "goth" girl, she was one of the people at who made up the circle that makes the pit, a non-participant. she was standing there, and anybody in the pit who came in close enough contact, she would punch them, she was just going mental laying it into people, and don't say she was pissed because people were ju,ping into her, because this girl was just laying it into people for no reason.

Blowfish

I really hate the people that just shove random people into the pit. I'm quite often in the pit, but it's happened to me where I stop for a minute at the edge and some idiot shoves me back in again. Once when that happened though, I just turned around and shoulder charged the guy. Needless to say, he moved away from the pit after that.

Matthewthebig

Some díck in the pit at Dragonforce started doing cartwheels through the pit. He was just a twat out to cause damage to anyone who came near.

Mushy

How can people not stop to pick others up after falling? Thats insane! Id just feel really guilty if i walked past someone who was down on the ground. And as for punching and elbowing people...thats ridiculous. just run around into people using the shoulder at most. then its enjoyable for everyone. not that we can stop people usin elbows or fist, but a bit of common sense should come into it

It wasn't me!

Matthewthebig wrote:

Some díck in the pit at Dragonforce started doing cartwheels through the pit. He was just a twat out to cause damage to anyone who came near.

Ah, the satisfying crunch or high-speed elbow and twat-nose...

crazy angel

usually doesnt help when the moshers are clad in studded belts, spiky wristbands, pint glasses and the likes! god, some of the mohawks could take an eye out!!

senordingdong

I blame Pantera.

mp3guy

http://www.coalitionagainsthardcoredancing.com/

nosmo

I'm not as pessimistic about pits these days as some, but I will admit things are getting pretty stupid. I'm not saying anything like "damn emo kids", but a lot of the younger attendees of gigs need to learn the proper etiquette for these things.
For one, if there's no pit at the gig, you can be the one to start it, but that doesn't mean "start hitting people at the back of the crowd". Anyone who was at Cryptopsy knows what I'm talking about, glad to see this particular individual got his comeuppance.
There's no set rule about what you do in a pit, but when you're looking to punch someone without getting aggro beforehand, you're being a ****wit.
Hell, most of this is personal taste I guess, but I'll continue. I can't ****ing stand people who grab someone in the pit and launch them into other people who clearly don't want anything to do with the gig, especially if people have their backs turned, that's particularly unpleasant.
And above all, the most frequently mentioned factor in moshing: if they go down, pick them up. It doesn't matter who you were going after, making sure other people are able to enjoy things the same way you are is the most important thing

As for comments about the dangers of ye olde Carcass pits, watching the grindcrusher live show I can see.... hmm.. One person headbanging with little other movement from the crowd. How did you ever survive?

senordingdong

nosmo wrote:

a lot of the younger attendees of gigs need to learn the proper etiquette for these things.

It's possible the same was said about you and yoiur mates at the time.

It wasn't me!

Possible, but unlikely.

Ph3n0m

senordingdong wrote:

It's possible the same was said about you and yoiur mates at the time.

extremely unlikely - simply because the amount of injuries that I have personally witnessed at gigs past and present - well lets say the present is seriously outweighing the past at the moment - and thats not just a generalisation - just gigs I have been to.

As for us learning proper etiquette - er most of us older crowd started the whole toxic waltz

Nevyn

There is a big difference between moshing/bouncing moving to the same rythms of those arround you becoming one with the crowd, a mass of heaving bodies and enjoying the push and pull of it all;
and the blatant utter disreguard for people and going into the pit to start a punch up and agressivly batter against people.

I have been in pits and ended up clocking people when head banging and you check the other person is ok and say sorry people were polite and there for the experience of it and not out to get people.

I have a wrenched neck that plays up from time to time from all the pit action over the years but I would not get into the pit these days, not to do with being older but that I would not have the tolerance for the carry on these days.

Attitude towards females in the pit has gotten worse as well, just cos you are in there does not give guys the right to grope you up.
Like I said I steer clear becuase I would lose it and laying out an idtiot and dealing with what can follow after is not worth ruining a gig no matter who much I would like to be in the pit.

nosmo

senordingdong wrote:

It's possible the same was said about you and yoiur mates at the time.

Heh, I tried to refrain from using age-reliant comments, but I had to say something along the lines. Just because someone saw something in a Trivium video (yes, I am insulting them, I'm not beating around the bush) doesn't mean it's OK in real life. I'm only 19 as it is, but I've seen enough to know how things can work sustainably

LightofDarkness

Agreed, that ****er at Cryptopsy got his alright. No one would mosh with me for Grave though...

But still,I don't want to sound like some typical metal elitist or anything but it's always the same culprits : emo kids/tough guy hXc fans out to prove how awesome they are at punching/kicking air and occasionally faces. I've been round housed, that's right, these kids think that re-enacting power rangers whilst wearing their school bag is mosh pit etiquette and shows their inner struggle/despair, I've been head butted many a time (usually an accident but the skin head variety usually snake away laughing, at least until me and my friends "have words" after the gig :mad: )

But alot of these kids have an air of arrogance sometimes when they do it too. Like they're somehow above us mere pit goers who are in it for fun, like it's somehow a serious struggle that determines the alpha male whose final crowning achievement is being tossed out violently by security. It's like any attempt to educate results in a prick-ish retort. Any retaliation results in WTFs all round too.

Ph3n0m

What worries me is why this idiots also think its cool to strip to the waist - sounds a bit strange (never felt the need to strip in the pit myself) - touching sweaty flesh, sliding up and down....er I think I better go watch some pr0n

senordingdong

Well I think it's worth noting that metal music has gotten alot more aggressive too.