Government New Provisional Driving Licence Plan

swingking

I heard just there on the news that the Government is planning to change the law regarding provisional licence holders

If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

mike65

Moving to Humour!

Mike.

garthv

About time!

Pherekydes

If that takes 20% of the drivers off the roads, I'm all for it.:D

mike65

Won't the economy collapse if 400,000 drivers are not able to commute?

Mike.

prospect

It all boils down to a proper public transport system. This is the very first thing the government need to implement all over the country. If there is adequate, affordable, consistant and convenient public transport for everyone then:

1. They can remove people who fail their tests from the road, and they will have no excuses about 'needing' cars.
2. They will reduce traffic, as alot of people will use affordable convenient public transport if it is available
3. They can properly enforce the Provisional Driver must be Accompanied rule
4. Enforcement of road laws becomes easier as no of vehicles are reduced
5. Reduced drink driving
6. Less wear & tear on roads
7. As more people use public transport, low ratees are sustained by high volumes, this would also counteract loss of revenue if there is a drop in the levels of ownership of private vehicles
8. Easier national traffic & transport planning
9. Makes city centre conjestin charges a realistic option
10. Cant think of any more right now, but 10 points is a nice round number, oh yeah, More public transport = less cars = better for the enviornment.

unkel

Like in the rest of the world

Obviously it has to be phased in to give every provisional license holder one chance first at passing the test

swingking wrote:

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

Again, like in the rest of the world, with a professional instructor in a dual-control learner vehicle

Savman

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

Chris P Duck

That idea would fit perfectly into the rules of driving on a provisional licence.

First Provisional: Must drive accommpanied by a fully licensed driver
Second Provisional: Can drive alone
Third Provisional: Must drive accommpanied by a fully licensed driver
Take the driving test and fail: Banned from driving

All I reckon this will do is stop people applying for the test.

jhegarty

swingking wrote:

I heard just there on the news that the Government is planning to change the law regarding provisional licence holders

If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

that will sort out the que... no one will ever apply for a test again...

Wolverine_1999

Savman wrote:

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

These are probably the drivers who passed in the very old driving test system, which basically passed you if you could turn the ignition in the car..

I don't understand how anybody is allowed to drive on the roads without ANY kind of driving instruction. As soon as you pass the theory test, (which basically tests whether you can read and have half a brain), you are allowed to drive on the roads and crash into the next car that comes along. I did the Hibernian ignition course and don't understand why EVERYONE in Ireland shouldn't have to do the course. It is vital to survival as well as improved driving skill on the roads.

Big Nelly

Savman wrote:

Pick on us provisional drivers why don't ye :mad:

I currently drive two vehicles, both a car and a van and some of the driving by fully licensed "drivers" is shocking. Indicators, roundabouts, overtaking, I can go on. :eek:

Regardless of your views of L plate drivers, I take exception to the sterotype clueless provisional driver thank you very much.

Let he without sin....

Are you allowed drive on that license without a full license driver? if not do you drive without a full license driver?

My view on this is, they should change the law so that if someone is caught on a provisional license without a ful license driver they should automatically be banned from having any license for up to a year. End of story. Might get some of these provisional drivers off the road and improve road safety.

Savman

Wolverine_1999 wrote:

These are probably the drivers who passed in the very old driving test system, which basically passed you if you could turn the ignition in the car..

I don't understand how anybody is allowed to drive on the roads without ANY kind of driving instruction. As soon as you pass the theory test, (which basically tests whether you can read and have half a brain), you are allowed to drive on the roads and crash into the next car that comes along. I did the Hibernian ignition course and don't understand why EVERYONE in Ireland shouldn't have to do the course. It is vital to survival as well as improved driving skill on the roads.

I actually agree. However all I was required to do was sit the Theory Test before getting my prov. If the measures currently in place are lacklustre then point the finger of blame towards govt. cos they set the rules, prov. drivers only follow them. If they bothered enforcing the rules, people like me would have to adhere and travel everywhere with full licensed driver etc etc but at the moment it's not a big deal so I can't say it worries me that much :rolleyes:

Savman

Big Nelly wrote:

Might get some of these provisional drivers off the road and improve road safety.

See, that's the typical silly argument that comes up. You could discuss driver error, speeding, dangerous overtaking or other such factors contributing to road safety. But instead you think, "ah well we'll just blame the newbies" cos obviously you're perfect in every way and god forbid it could never be you whose driving is imperfect in any way :mad:

Big Nelly

Savman wrote:

See, that's the typical silly argument that comes up. You could discuss driver error, speeding, dangerous overtaking or other such factors contributing to road safety. But instead you think, "ah well we'll just blame the newbies" cos obviously you're perfect in every way and god forbid it could never be you whose driving is imperfect in any way :mad:

Well I have a full license, never had an accident, dont have any penalty points etc. So in regards to that yes I am a good driver.

We discussed this on here numerous times, I have no problem with learner driver and having to learn etc but with a full license driver. Your atitude and its one I have seen with alot of provisional driver is, buy a car, get my provisional license and off I go driving. Hardly any lessons etc but of course your a great driver and its the fault of all the people that bothered to take lessons and get there full license.

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc? its great to fly around with your provisional license thinking your the world best driver but when something goes wrong this is where you notice that most provisional driver end up doing alot more damage.

Oh yeah if your such a great driver then why dont you do the test?

ninty9er

I would go so far as to say, being someone who has just passed my test 6 months ago, that there is a higher proportion of dangerous full licence holoders on our roads than provisional drivers. I think there should be a system whereby a ny driver who has a certified 7-8 lessons can drive on their own, a test is quite easy to fail on the day and does no necessarily represent the usual driving ability of the candidate

Carb

Big Nelly wrote:

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc?

Funny, I don't remeber any of this in my test:D

I think what's even more dangerous on the roads, is the amount of people who pass the test and suddenly think they're great drivers. (thats not aimed at you Big Nelly). The fact is the driving test is load of s**t and bears no resemblence to everday driving conditions or situations. I doubt many of the people who've been killed on our roads this year were reversing around a corner/doing a hill start, or driving in a housing estate on the outskirts of a town. I wonder how many people would fail a test for lack of prgress in a 100km/h zone. Or what would happen if you had to pass a slow moving vehicle on a rural road. At least these would be relevant to everyday situations.


Disclosure: I managed to drive for three years on a provisional licence and never had an accident/casued an accident/caught for any traffic offence. I passed my test first time last year.

RiderOnTheStorm

Big Nelly wrote:

Also in regards to the point above do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving? what to do is you hit ice etc?

thats interesting Big Nelly. I have full licence (for last 15 years) and no points, and I have hit ice once. I dont know if I would react properly. It takes pratice to become competent in any manoeuvre. Have you praticed this? in some advanced driving course on a skid pan? Dont assume that full licence holders are better than provo's, as afterall, some of the provos are driving longer than the full-licence! lol

Anyway, it has NEVER been shown that provo drivers cause (or are involved in) more accidents than the full licence holder, as the insurance companies do not give out this info.

But isnt it strange that you can fail your driving test, and then drive home! Ireland, eh?

Savman

Big Nelly wrote:

do you know the braking etc distance either of your cars you are driving?

Hard to understand the question by your use of language and as braking distance varies with road terrain but to answer you simply, in one vehicle I'm comfortable and can brake safely and in good time allowing for wet roads, the other vehicle is a van that I will freely admit not 100% comfortable driving yetbut I guess if I keep it under 80km/h, avoid tailgating and drive safely I should be ok (even with that full licensed driver beside me )

Big Nelly wrote:

what to do is you hit ice etc?

I presume you meant "if" I hit ice, in which case it's difficult to control the vehicle anyways, its happened before and it was scary stuff the first couple of time but I'm sure I'd know what to do in future. I think you may need to ask this question nationally to the thousands of other road users I see taking life threatening risks in dangerous conditions. Not me though, I like life.:D

Big Nelly wrote:

Oh yeah if your such a great driver then why dont you do the test?

Er, where did I pronounce that I am a "great driver". Read my post again ffs. Which test are you referring to? The actual Driving Test or the Ignition Test? I will admit failed my first driving test attempt last year, no big red marks against me on the test result sheet but "incorrect use of clutch" and "positioning when turning left" or something, relatively minor things I can work on for my next attempt (which incidentally I'm still waiting for, great system this is :rolleyes:). If you meant the Hibernian Ignition test, then you really have to be kidding. Why the hell would I do a test that is of no benefit to me? The mind boggles.

The point I'm making is that no prov drivers go around acting like the best drivers in the world, we know we're provisional so we're not fookin stupid. It's a learning process and in cae you forget everyone has to go thru it. What doesn't help is attitudes like yours, if its not prov drivers its foreigners or women drivers. All the bleedin excuses in the world but yet nobody accepts any kind of responsibility for the awful driving stats in this country, thats true from govt level right thru gardai and onto motorists. I've yet to see an L plate perform a crazy overtaking manoeuvre, I see other drivers doing it all the time in high spec cars you'd never actually need on an irish road. Blaming prov drivers or any one particular group is easy but also pointless, we're all equally to blame.

mike65

Big Nelly don't wind up customers!

Mike.

Big Nelly

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

thats interesting Big Nelly. I have full licence (for last 15 years) and no points, and I have hit ice once. I dont know if I would react properly. It takes pratice to become competent in any manoeuvre. Have you praticed this? in some advanced driving course on a skid pan? Dont assume that full licence holders are better than provo's, as afterall, some of the provos are driving longer than the full-licence!

I did practise this, when there was heavy snow a few years back me and my brother in cavan hoped into my old Primera and went over to a private laneway of ours. We then did a few hours of test to see how to handle the car the best way when skidding. Was good practise.

Squirrel

I'm just after coming back from my second lesson, and some people are assholes on the roads. I was doing 51 in a 50 zone, and I had a guy in a Merc C Class trying to over take, despite the fact there were plenty of cars ahead of me doing the same speed as I was. A full licence doesn't mean a good driver in real world terms.

Kinetic^

Just wondering if a time frame was mentioned on this?

Big Nelly

Squirrel wrote:

I'm just after coming back from my second lesson, and some people are assholes on the roads. I was doing 51 in a 50 zone, and I had a guy in a Merc C Class trying to over take, despite the fact there were plenty of cars ahead of me doing the same speed as I was. A full licence doesn't mean a good driver in real world terms.

You where breaking the speed limit, test is failed:p

swingking

I think a system whereby a driver can only drive on a provisional licence on their own if he/she proves that they are getting lessons.

I driver is able to drive on his/her own on their second provisional driving licence, but I have a friend who has never driven in his life and yet he is on his second provisional driving licence and can drive on his own. What is the story with that!

commited

I'd love to see Provisional drivers confined to using official driving schools only.

If people moaned about the cost, then they cant afford to drive.

jhegarty

does anyone have a source for these plans ?

Squirrel

Big Nelly wrote:

You where breaking the speed limit, test is failed:p

That's what I thought, but the instructor said better to go 51/52 instead of 48/49 because people behind would get pissed off at going slightly below. True the guy behind was getting pissed off going slightly above

Jamax

Hi,

I am from Spain and living here for 2 years and counting.

I was so surprised when I heard about all this provisional drivers system ruling here. I guess is one of the Irish things...

What should be done is get rid of this provisional licence in full. Of course the actual provisional will be valid and they will have to pass the test.

Just copy the system of any other EU country, is not so difficult. You can drive when you get your driving tests done, both theory and practice. It's insane to allow driving to people who haven't been properly taught how to do it.

In Spain you have to pass first a Theory test which is far more difficult and complex than the one here. To do that you go to the driving school for some time until you feel like passing the test or, depending on your school, your teacher thinks you are prepared enough.

Once you have passed the theory test, you start to take driving lessons with an instructor from your driving school in a dual pedals car. When your instructor recomends or when you feel comfortable enough driving, you can try and go to the practical test.

If you fail your practical test, you take more lessons and try the test again. (Here is the main failure in Ireland. In Spain you can take another test in 2 weeks time). Of course you can't drive on your own at this point.

When you finally pass your practical test, you have your driving licence. But you are in the status of 'Learner driver' which means during the first year you must show a green L in your vehicle, can't drive more than 80km/h in motorways, have the lowest limits in alcohool allowed in blood. But this is REALLY enforced by the police, not like here where the gardai seem to don't care about the provisionals breaking their limitations.


I think Ireland needs a system like this, at least to ensure the people who drive at least at some point drove properly and were taught to.

The main problem is the waiting list for the test, that's amazing!! 1 year or more to the next test. The government must hire new testers and then the list will be reduced.

This will bring some sanity to the system, reduce road accidents, stop the insurers ripoff, etc...

It's a crazy system now. You can even get an international driving licence if you are provisional, which means you can drive abroad without passing a practical driving test!!!!!

mike65

I agree.

Here's the crazy thing, the fatality rate here is no worse then in Spain so I guess that backs up what Savman and other say about learners.

On this particular announcment and why it was made now, I'm guessing Cullen is seeking to put the pressure on the Testers union. After all there is no way the system will cope unless we have a big increase in testers and they can't exactly say 'we its not our fault the waiting lists are so long' as everyone knows it is.

Mike.

halkar

Passing a test doesn't make anyone a better driver than others here. You drive for an half an hour like an old granny and if you are lukcy on the day you pass your test. You hardly ever go over 50kmh. What about 80kmh or motorway testing. How many of the drivers who past their tests ever driven on the motorways or at night? Blaming everything on the provisional drivers is easy but one should also look around and realise that there are thousands of drivers who never had to do their tests. Unless government brings the waiting list down to 2-3 weeks max, I do not see them doing anything weird like this

All the best to whom that are waiting for their tests.:)

antodeco

The testing system is a joke. I failed my first test because there was a kid standing in the middle of the road in front of me, and I stopped. Apparently Im meant to keep going, but slow down while beeping? I passed it the second time though. Didnt do anything different, just had no people standing in front of me.

Another riduclous thing in the system is that you have to pay for a theory test, each subsequent licence, and then the test. Surely this means, fail test = more money for a 3rd licence, and more money for resitting the test. This shows that it is mainly a money making scheme. Also, having such a long waiting time for a test means, provisional drive= higher insurance, which again means more money for the government (they do get a percentage of all insurance premiums).

i think if the government REALLY wanted to solve this issue, they couldve done a long time ago. Its funny how they plan these things when general elections will be coming up

unkel

Savman wrote:

If the measures currently in place are lacklustre then point the finger of blame towards govt. cos they set the rules, prov. drivers only follow them. If they bothered enforcing the rules, people like me would have to adhere and travel everywhere with full licensed driver etc etc but at the moment it's not a big deal so I can't say it worries me that much :rolleyes:

Absolutely! A point not made here very often unfortunately. People are calculating, it's in most people's nature. It's the role of the government to set the boundaries and enforce them. It is not the fault of the L-driver. Neither is it his / her fault they have to wait so ridiculously long for a test

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

Anyway, it has NEVER been shown that provo drivers cause (or are involved in) more accidents than the full licence holder, as the insurance companies do not give out this info

The insurance companies sure do give out the info that provisional drivers have an average annual claim that is higher than the same age, etc. person with a full license. Isn't the latter's premium lower?

mike65 wrote:

the fatality rate here is no worse then in Spain so I guess that backs up what Savman and other say about learners

That logic is a bit flawed, Mike. Did you take into account that the average speed in Spain is about 4 times that of the average speed in Ireland?

Stark

jamax wrote:

When you finally pass your practical test, you have your driving licence. But you are in the status of 'Learner driver' which means during the first year you must show a green L in your vehicle, can't drive more than 80km/h in motorways, have the lowest limits in alcohool allowed in blood. But this is REALLY enforced by the police, not like here where the gardai seem to don't care about the provisionals breaking their limitations.

In Ireland, provisional drivers are not allowed drive at all on the motorways. It may not be strictly enforced, but when you have draconian laws in a society, it's up to the law enforcement to make judgement calls.

Also, we're not allowed drive drunk after we pass our tests :rolleyes:

jamax wrote:

In Spain you have to pass first a Theory test which is far more difficult and complex than the one here. To do that you go to the driving school for some time until you feel like passing the test or, depending on your school, your teacher thinks you are prepared enough.

Once you have passed the theory test, you start to take driving lessons with an instructor from your driving school in a dual pedals car. When your instructor recomends or when you feel comfortable enough driving, you can try and go to the practical test.

What's the point in having an exceedingly complex theory test? It's driving a car, not "University challenge".

If you fail your practical test, you take more lessons and try the test again. (Here is the main failure in Ireland. In Spain you can take another test in 2 weeks time). Of course you can't drive on your own at this point.

The thing is, I really can't see how you could gain considerable driving skills by only doing lessons in an instructor's car. For practically everything in life, you need practice between sessions of tuition in my opinion.

swingking wrote:

I think a system whereby a driver can only drive on a provisional licence on their own if he/she proves that they are getting lessons.

That would make sense actually.

Seth Brundle

Bring in the German system of testing.
Also restrict drivers to a max 80kmph for their first year after passing the test like in Norn Iron!

Capt'n Midnight

swingking wrote:

If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test

Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

You can get your license renewed once you have applied for a test. You can then cancel or postpone the test.

You can't fail a test if you never do it


http://talk-ireland.com/article.php?sid=2295

According to Department figures released to Deputy Shortall, there are a total of 410,602 unqualified drivers on our roads at the moment. These include:

*29,044 on their 5th or more provisional licence
*31,455 on their 4th provisional licence
*39,676 on their 3rd provisional licence
*100,780 on their 2nd provisional licence
*209,647 on their 1st provisional licence
...
“The single biggest contributing factor is the fact that the number of driving tests carried out over recent years has been dropping. 16,000 fewer driving tests were conducted in 2005 compared to 2004 (137,350 as opposed to 153,983).

Less than 1 in 4 provisional drivers are allowed drive on their own, with odds like that guards should be doing license checks ?

Oh and as I posted over here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51263818&postcount=68 the number of driving tests per year is actually going down, so excuse me for being cynical about noises in the lead up to an election from the government that have ignored the carnage for almost all of the last two decades.

But as we've seen consistently road traffic laws are ignored if they aren't enforced.

Esel

swingking wrote:

..If a provisional driving licence fails his test, he can't drive till he passes his test...Interesting idea, but how do people practice:rolleyes:

Take driving lessons - they obviously need them if they failed!

Pherekydes

Stark wrote:

What's the point in having an exceedingly complex theory test? It's driving a car, not "University challenge".

The Spaniard said "more difficult and complex than here", and not "exceedingly complex".

The Spanish system sounds good. Something like it should be adopted here. I had no lessons, no theory test, no pre-test and still passed first time. It shouldn't be allowed!:eek:

As regards accident rates, Ireland's is lower than Spain's but nearly twice that of our nearest neighbour, whose Road Traffic Laws we tend to copy.

If it was up to me..

* Out source the the driver test
* Purge the current driver testers who are living in the 1960s with regards to work practices, working hours and over unionisation (along with half the civil service I might add)
* Retests every 5 or so years
* Ban new + inexperienced drvers from driving at peak death times ( fri night, sat night)
* Fail means fail for provisional drivers

jhegarty

ronoc wrote:

* Retests every 5 or so years

that would cause choas... one silly mistake on your 5 year retest and you loose your job that requires a car....

Seth Brundle

jhegarty wrote:

that would cause choas... one silly mistake on your 5 year retest and you loose your job that requires a car....

Why not just do a re-test?
Also, would you rather have numpties who can't drive on the road purely to keep them in work?

miju

Big Nelly wrote:

My view on this is, they should change the law so that if someone is caught on a provisional license without a ful license driver they should automatically be banned from having any license for up to a year. End of story. Might get some of these provisional drivers off the road and improve road safety.

sorry nelly but to be blunt get yer head out of yer arse, there's just as many dangerous / stupid fully licensed drivers out there as provisional holders you only have to hop onto the M50 for 1 minute to see it

jhegarty

kbannon wrote:

Why not just do a re-test?
Also, would you rather have numpties who can't drive on the road purely to keep them in work?

anyone can fail a test , someone runs out on the road in front of you... you fail , no matter how your react....then you are off the road for a year waiting for a re-test ?

Big Nelly

miju wrote:

sorry nelly but to be blunt get yer head out of yer arse, there's just as many dangerous / stupid fully licensed drivers out there as provisional holders you only have to hop onto the M50 for 1 minute to see it

Did I say there wasn't, but its against the law and until the road laws are started to be implemented seriously then people will continue to flout them!

miju

unkel wrote:

The insurance companies sure do give out the info that provisional drivers have an average annual claim that is higher than the same age, etc. person with a full license. Isn't the latter's premium lower?

any linkies to that gem cos I'd sure like to see where they do

miju

Big Nelly wrote:

Did I say there wasn't, but its against the law and until the road laws are started to be implemented seriously then people will continue to flout them!

no but you did say that taking provisionals off the road should sort out road safety

prospect

Lads you have to start somewhere.

Also, if you fail your test, (as simple as it is), you should not be on the road, and it is quite right to ban these drivers.

Big Nelly

miju wrote:

no but you did say that taking provisionals off the road should sort out road safety

Yeah it will cut down on the number of people buying a car and then heading straight out onto the road without a clue how to drive

MrPudding

So many comments I would like to address but I don't have time to do the quote stuff so I will try to address as much as I can.

With regards to provos being more or less likely to have accidents. Do insurance companies charge more money to insure a provisional driver? If they do why? Could it be that they find provo drivers are more likely to be involved in accident?

TBH I find it crazy that provo drivers are allowed to drive unaccompanied. I would like to see that little gem stopped but I am a realist and recognise that it cannot be done given the current state of the testing system. What I find more crazy is that there are people on this board saying that if a person sits a test of competency and fails that test he or she should still be allowed to drive. Are you guys serious?

In another post someone said that the test was rubbish and all you have to do is "act" like a good driver for 20 minutes. Well folks nearly 50% of the people taking driving tests in this country can't even pretend to be good drivers for 20 minutes. Does that not scare any of you?

Savman, you are one of the many brilliant and safe drivers that for one reason or another have not sat a test. I do not know you and I will not judge you. I will take you at you word that you are a good driver I will go further and say that you may well have a valid reason for not having sat a test. I will go even further and say that taking you off the road may be unfair as you might be a good driver. The problm is, is it the same for the other 400K provo drivers on our roads? Can you say that they are all safe?

You see this is the problem. There has to be a way for us to decide who is fit to drive and who isn't. Now, I agree that the current test might not be the best method but it is all we have. We should not let people onto our roads willy nilly. Some people on provisional licenses may be fantastic drivers, they may be very safe and considerate. The problem is how do we separate them form the provo drivers that aren't? Any suggestions?

Several people have mentioned that they feel full license holders are more dangerous and more like to be involved in accidents. I have a couple of thing to say about that. First of all, that is a subjective opinion and whilst I have heard it a number of times I have yet to see any evidence to back it up. In fact the evidence points to the contrary, the insurance companies charge provos more not full license holders. I fully except that there may be more incidents involving full license holders. In fact I fully expect there to be more. There are more full license holder on the road and therefore statistically they are more likely to be involved. But I think if you had access to the data you would find that provos, whilst involved in less incidents overall, would be more statistically more like to be involved. Finally, I also accept that there are full license holders that are not good drivers. Or perhaps they could act for 20 minutes or perhaps they got their license in their cornflakes box from Mr Haughey. Perhaps over the years they have simply gotten lazy.

Having passed a test is not a 100% guarentee of a drivers skill but it is something and it is much better than nothing.

MrP

b3t4

I've read these three pages and to be honest I'm quite shocked that the following has not been mentioned.

Ok, so everyone here is like get lessons, get lessons, get lessons but ANYONE with a full license can set themselves up as a driving instructor.

If I was to start anywhere with this whole thing I'd sort out the situation with driving instructors. People want to take lessons and people will take lessons but if the person teaching them isn't the best then it's going to make a bad situation worse. Also parents are extremely keen to have their kids take lessons.

From www.racsom.ie

"In order to bring Ireland more into line with its European partners the Irish Government has committed itself to establishing a national register of instructors.

Originally 1st January 2002 was set as the date for the implementation of a register. However currently it still not been implemented.

Legislation is currently in the Oireachtas and will hopefully result in a resolution to the issue."

A.

Kimbot

One point I would like to make about this!! Don't all test centres have their Fail rate that they have to fail in anyway??

I sat 2 tests in the last while!!
First test I done the tester was looking out the passenger side window for the entire test, gave me a late command to take a right turn and marked me for it, told me to park my car on front of a gateway (to which I refused becuase the rules of a road state you can't be blocking a gateway) to do my 3 point turn!! Was pure arrogant when I was asked questions, when I asked him to repeat any command he sighed then repeated!!

On my second test all the fails were a carbon copy of my first test (2 right turns and one left was marked under the progress header) and I done all my right turns correct ( I can't drive through cars now can I??) and yet I failed!! Also in my second test about 12-15 car lenghts a head of me in an industrial estate a man opened his jeep door and stepped out onto the road!! When I was approx 8 car lenghts away the man was off the road and his door closed and my sheet got marked as failure to react to hazzard ( now how did I fail to react to something that was not there??)
The testers are not up to the standard in this country and another thing, when you fail why is it against their rules to tell you where you failed?? Because if they were to list it then they would be caught out!!