*Regarding Charleville Investigation 15th April

6th

I am sorry to be in the situation i find myself in tonight. I apologise in advance for the long post.

It has been brought to my attention that a member of the investigation team was responsible for the knocks on the stable doors. Immediately I'm sure alarm bells are going off in many heads here.

Seeing as I was one of the people responsible for organising this trip, and choosing the people who came along, I feel personally responsible for this.

All I have when it comes to this forum is my reputation. It means alot to me but if i bring people along who purposely fake incidents and mislead people my rep aint worth cack! All i can do is post this on here and be as open and honest as possible.

This person also admitted, though not to myself, that they had claimed to have seen things that they did not.

Ultimately i can only take responsibility for myself and any material i.e. photos etc that I produce. I hope that each person there on the night can hold onto anything that they themselves experienced in light of this very damaging news. Though I am sure information like this will make most of us question the vadility of the nights events.

Personally though I know what i have experienced both in my life and at this location but am none the less hit hard by the actions of this person.

Because of this I am seriously questioning being involved with, or organising, future investigations. Infact because it happened on a trip I organised I feel that even my posts here are in question as i feel responsible for the actions of evryone there that night.

I'll play this out for now but may be left with no choice but to step away from the Paranormal Forum altogether. I could be faced with having the fact that i brought a person on an investigation who faked incidents thrown in may face with every post i make. Like i said my reputation is everyhting to me, I try to be honest, open and accepting but I have no illusions that I am anything but a stranger to people here and none of you have any reason to take me at my word.

Though I have not been in touch with the person in question I have no choice but to believe that it is possible this person purposely mislead us all. Obviously I can not name this person but feel free to spet up everyone who knows it wasnt them and comment.

I expect alot of backlash from some people on here that were just waiting for something like this to brush aside and anything which they chose to question.

I'd also like to thank those responsible for bringing this to my attention and trusting me enough to know i was not involved in anyway.

6th

stormkeeper

I'm deeply disturbed this happened myself, and am, understandably not very happy about the proceedings that were brought to my attention. All I can do is, like 6th, apoligising profusely, and taking responsibility as one of the organisers of the event. It's a terrible shame that something like this had happened. I feel that I won't be able to apoligise enough for the actions of someone I thought I was able to trust, seeing as this person seemingly never did something like this before, but now I'm left to question their motives for this...

GuanYin

Hi 6th.

First of all, thanks for the post, I think anyone reading this will totally understand your point of view.

I find it very distasteful that someone would be so petty and dishonest as to go along with such a trip with the purpose of undermining it and betraying your trust.

From my point of view, I'll look very harshly upon this individual, especially in light of claims made in posts.

What they did on the trip has nothing to do with the forum alas, so from my point of view their actions, while personally disgusting to me, doesn't disqualify them from the forum.

However, posting about their exploits does. Let me clarify, as far as I'm concerned such posts detailing fabricated events are dishonest trolls and basically mocking the forum and those involved in the investigation. I'd like to give them an opportunity to make a statement before I decide how to deal with them from the forum point of view.

Again 6th, I hope people will view your honesty in the light it deserves and that the distaste you have doesn't move you away from the forum nor will stop you organising another investigation.

6th

Thanks for the words PSi, I am glad to be able to say that this peron is not a poster on these forums and i must say that I have only had good expereinces with people from here. PAranormal Forum is, in my opinion, unquestionable one of the most baluable resorces on the net for irish people with an interest in the are.

6th

stevenmu

Tbh, I think you're making too big a deal out of this, no need for all this melodrama. There's only so much vetting we can do of people prior to an investigation (practically none in fact), and no one can be held responsible for their actions except themselves. In particular this applies if it was who I think it was, no one could have expected him/her to do something like this, and iirc we even talked about something similar regarding this person and a different incident the following day and thought it would have been totally out of character for them to fake something.

While this does cast a bit of doubt over the night as a whole, it's just one of the risks you have to take to do something like this with people that you don't nessecarily know very well. And we agreed after that night that it worked well having people down that we didn't know and who didn't usually go for this kind of thing, and that's something I still believe. All that can really be done is to 'out' this kind of behaviour whenever it happens, and carry on.

Personally it doesn't really affect how I view that night or any of the experiences I had, well maybe one but I was pretty unsure about that one anyway. Like many other things from that night, it's just another learning experience, something we'll have to try and take into account in the future. It's possibly something we could eliminate totally if we only took small groups of people we know well and all stuck to each other like glue the whole night, looking over each others shoulders, but that'd totally spoil the fun and probably the whole investigation too.

I say just forget about it and start looking forward to next time. It doesn't really damage the credibility of anyone, except the person themselves, as long as it's exposed when it's discovered.

Rachelann

I'd just like to say that I'm surprised that someone would go to the trouble of doing that. 6th, I'd like you to know, even though I'm a skeptic, the investigation at Charleville was an eye opener for me, and despite that trip being my first time on a paranormal investigation so to speak, those stunts certainly haven't put me off, and I would look forward to another trip that you are organising. Dont let it put you off.

Riamfada

Lads...

Im sorry to hear that there were such goings on at the event however the organisers cannot be held responsible for the actions of one member in a group of 13. In my opinion both Mark and Andy did a bang up job and created a friendly and accomdating atmosphere which made the night very enjoyable,paranormal experiences or not. Such revalations would never put me off attending another investigation in Charleville in fact Ive great trust in the experience of Mark (and Andy) and would favour another trip lead by the same team. I would hope Mark, that recent news wouldn't put you off either posting on this forum or leading another investigation to Charleville as the night was great fun and kindled the "spirit" of paranormal investigation in four young (previous) sceptics.

stormkeeper

Mark isn't around at the moment, but thank you you two for your kind words anyway

I played a game of some sort so I'm pretty much calmed myself up/down, whatever, lol

Thanks again

Edit - PS: If there wasn't something you particularly liked, or feel that things could be improved somewhere, let us know and we'll see what we can do in the future

shinners007

sure its ireland....... we love tayto.............................

so

THERES ALWAYS ONE



joke!!!!!

Gillo

6TH: I wasn't there, I'd love to go on one of the investigations but time is always hard to get, from the others investigations I've heard off, I've no reason to doubt that they were genuine. You simply organised the investigation, which everyone here I am sure appreciates, takes time and effort, I don't think anyone here would blame you for someone else's actions.

Everyone else: Just in case anyone is doubting the credibility of other investigations which 6th organised, having met 6TH at a previous "greet & grub", my opinion of him was that he is genuinely interested in paranormal investigation and would never do anything to call into question the credibility of an investigation, and it would definetly be unfar to blame this on 6TH.

To the person who caused the knocks: SLAP

6th

Thanks Gillo, Steven, Grimes, Rachel, PSi, Shinners, Kennett.

Am feeling a bit better about this after a bit of sleep last night. Am still pissed at the person responsible but will take that up with them. Its a real dissapointment as this person has been doing investigations for years and runs his own site - I have to question anything i've ever heard from this guy as he is actually talking about the knocking as a valid paranormal occurance on his site.

For now i can only say that until this matter is sorted this person will not be involved with anything I do.

Thanks again for the support,

6th

terbo

Hi All,

I feel i must point out that from some posts above the "they and them" wasnt anyone in Soulsearchers. As it happens i am the one who brought this to Marks attention for the sake of his reputation which i my opinion is above question.
For me this individual ruined my nite and i felt sorry for the poor introduction to the paranormal for Grimes m8 , sorry cant remember the chaps name just now.
I am not a medium but i can tell when something is around, i dont know where or who but i can tell.With this individual there was spirits moving everywhere and every noise was paranormal.
Although i didnt expect this to come out in the open, maybe it is the best way for the organisers future integirity.
After the three bangs followed by a large bang, i checked what it may have been to find 3 palm sized stones on the outside of the stable doors along with one larger one, with all quite out of place in the surrounding ground level. This was admitted the following morning along with the 4 spirits in the main room was earthly done and dreamed up.Circumstances on the nite were not perfect, but this was beyond anyones control.
Was still a good nite, and now that its said lets move on:)

Riamfada

Upwards and Onwards. We still have images such as 6th's staircase photograph and individual experiences in the dungeon. I say we go back an investigate the sh*t outta the place . If anything it makes me more inclined to go back and try again.

solas

shinners wrote:

THERES ALWAYS ONE

my sentiments exactly
I wouldn't take it personally 6th, you can hardly hold yourself responsible for someone elses actions.
As it stands I'm really not clued up about which paranormal group is which but I'm very much aware that in the past there have been issues with the integrity of some, just in the knowing of that I would be wary of extending a group to incorporate the ideaologies of another, seems like an illogical thing to do.

I've got to agree with Steven if you keep the groups small it would make it easier to manage and lesson the chances of others creeping out of sight.

Riamfada

There is a certain ammount of trust when we all go in a group. We are all adults and its completly implausable to have to supervise those who come the enitre night neither should there be the need to supervise adults like children.

solas

No, but it is a paranormal investigation and if your taking it as seriously as you claim you will take all precautions neccessry to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

stormkeeper

solas wrote:

No, but it is a paranormal investigation and if your taking it as seriously as you claim you will take all precautions neccessry to maintain the integrity of the investigation.

Which is prolly the main reason why if anything goes wrong, as organisers, we would have to take a degree of blame.

solas

well, I understand 6th does take it very seriously and is concerned about his own integrity and the integrity of his organisation, but he has some nice pics from charleville and surely the evidence speaks for itself.
I doubt the disruption that night will overshadow the legit work being done, so 6th shouldn't really worry too much about how he or his work is perceived.
Would be no harm to take from the experience and just keep to smaller groups.

stevenmu

solas wrote:

I've got to agree with Steven if you keep the groups small it would make it easier to manage and lesson the chances of others creeping out of sight.

Just to be clear, what I was trying to get at was that to improve the chances of integrity we 'could' keep to small groups of people we know well and trust, and be all paranoid about who's where and doing what at any particular time, but I don't think that's the right thing to do. I think all the suspicion and mistrust would kill all the fun, and if it's not going to be any fun then there's absolutly no point in carrying on. We could start handing out uniforms, and giving people trigonomotry tests (which apparantly I can't even spell right) to make sure they're suitable, but I don't think we want to go down that road. We shouldn't let the minority of troublemakers define what we do and how we do it, the same way we don't get rid of banks in case people rob them, or ban all cars because some people drink and drive. I think it's a good thing that the investigations so far have been very relaxed and informal. It's good to let people roam around free to do their,altough there is a certain responsibility on the part of the organisers with regards the castle and safety, but that's a seperate issue entirely. (also, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable peeing in a haunted castle surrounded by 4/5 people with nightvision cameras and audio recorders watching every move I make)


Having as many people as is reasonably possible is a good thing, it increases the diversity of points of view, and the skill set of the group as a whole and increases the thouroughness of the investigation as a whole. Having new people along that we don't already know contributes to this as well, you never know what they can bring to the mix.

Even with all that aside, I don't think a 'small' 'trustworthy' group would have done us any good this time. I think if we were making up a list of people who'd take it seriously and wouldn't do this kind of thing, this individual would have been on the list. I'm still pretty surprised by it, as terbo pointed out this person would take every noise or draught as a sign of a spirit, but I always felt they were being genuinely mistaken about it, not activley dishonest. I still do actually, and think this incident was out of character. Maybe I'm wrong, but other faked incidents that I've heard of seemed to be done as a way of getting at someone in a group, and I feel this may have been the case here too.

solas

Y'know, I haven't been on any investigations so I don't really know how it works but over the duration of my time reading about it here I've gathered an amount of info about the process.
In my understanding there are a variety of groups who would be considered "private" (closed) paranormal investigative research groups.
Now I could be mistaken but for the most part I figure that if the intention of these orgs is for research purposes then a certain amount of procedure has to take place.
If for instance your using sensitive equipment it only makes sense that people are aware of what areas are no go and to be aware of each others wherabouts at all times so as not to amount to any exterior interferance.
It would be logical to limit the amount within the group to satisfy the methods being used.

That said I understand there are as many people who just enjoy ghost hunting for the adventure a night in a haunted castle might hold. (prefer a cup of tea and a good movie meself) and there are "public" (open) investigations which offer these services. Mysteria advertised a weekender that might fall within those paramteres recently and I'm sure it's something that many people would be welcome to join up with.

But for the dedicated reasearchers out there, the scientific process requires strict team methods for accurate results. As a "closed" group a "small trsutworthy team" only seems appropriate. Something to think about when planning future investigations maybe.

p.s. from the thread above it sounds like an "open" night and everyone had a good time anyway. It might be a point of interest to just discuss what occured with the individual personally and to clarify what actually happened.

stevenmu

I do see where you're coming from and in a way you're right. I think though that we can take the best from both types of investigation and let our own style of investigation evolve over the course of a few investigations. I know Kenneth has been on lots of investigations, but from me and 6th's point of view, Charleville last year was our first and it was a great learning experience. Going down the last time we had a much better idea of what to expect and we (well when I say we, 6th and Kenneth did all the actual work) had a good plan in place. This was kind of thrown out by the situation at the castle that night, but it was a good plan, and we can add to it with the stuff we learnt last time, and over upcoming investigations, evolve a set of best practices.

solas wrote:

If for instance your using sensitive equipment it only makes sense that people are aware of what areas are no go and to be aware of each others wherabouts at all times so as not to amount to any exterior interferance.

I think I may have been overstating how relaxed and informal we took everything. One example was with the "sleeper" experiment where 2 volunteers tried to sleep in one of the rooms and there was a camera and audio recorder setup to capture any activity. Everyone else stayed away from the room for the duration of the experiment, some people went down to the dungeons, a few others went to other rooms and a few even went for a cup of tea (no movie though ). What I'm trying to say is we can take the investigating parts seriously while still being flexible and having a laugh when appropriate. If you come along some time I'm sure you'll be very impressed by our very professional approach and scientific methodology.


edit: we really need a 'snigger' emoticon

solas

steven wrote:

If you come along some time I'm sure you'll be very impressed by our very professional approach and scientific methodology.

no, thats ok, I'm quite happy to let you folks do the investigating.

One example was with the "sleeper" experiment where 2 volunteers tried to sleep in one of the rooms and there was a camera and audio recorder setup to capture any activity. Everyone else stayed away from the room for the duration of the experiment, some people went down to the dungeons,

you should know that I still sleep with a night light on

stormkeeper

solas wrote:

In my understanding there are a variety of groups who would be considered "private" (closed) paranormal investigative research groups.
Now I could be mistaken but for the most part I figure that if the intention of these orgs is for research purposes then a certain amount of procedure has to take place.

Thing is though, while we shall have closed investigations, it's also important to have open ones, so people who don't normally get a chance to get involved in the paranormal can do so. It's also a good way of raising money for a charity. One of the reasons why IP was founded was so that in addition to closed investigations (eventually private ones too), I wanted to introduce more people to the idea of paranormal investigation, as well as forming contacts with other groups, though that might be mostly handled elsewhere now, depending on circumstances.

Either way though, while there may be some research involved, it's also a good way of meeting like-minded people, who you wouldn't be able to meet under normal circumstances. We don't mind people having a bit of fun on investigations as we don't want to seem strict, stuck up, etc, but at the same time, we'd want to be sure that the "fun" wasn't a severe disruption to the investigation. As a result of the above issue, whatever the motivations were, two people no longer want to work with this particular individual. As I've mentioned before, in addition to Steven and Mark, this person was the last person we expected to do such a thing, but what's done is done, and it's in the past, so all we can do now is deal with the present, whatever that entails.

Sorry if this seems all over the place... it kind of resembles how my head feels at the moment...

stormkeeper

solas wrote:

no, thats ok, I'm quite happy to let you folks do the investigating.

Where's the fun in that though? lol

Riamfada

Kennett, I know its only coming into may but lets hear more about the next investigation.

solas

kennett wrote:

Where's the fun in that though? lol

well, it should be fun couldn't see the point in it if it wasn't
For my own part, I never really had to go looking for spiritual experiences, there are somethings I do my best to avoid, seriously, cuppa tea in front of the tv is good for me.

stormkeeper

Grimes wrote:

Kennett, I know its only coming into may but lets hear more about the next investigation.

Emm... I haven't anything to say at the moment, but poke me again in a few days or so, and we'll see if I have anything to report then. I believe the next planned investigation is 6th's baby anyway so I can't tell you a lot at the moment...

solas wrote:

well, it should be fun couldn't see the point in it if it wasn't
For my own part, I never really had to go looking for spiritual experiences, there are somethings I do my best to avoid, seriously, cuppa tea in front of the tv is good for me.

That's understandable. If you ever do want to come along on an investigation though, you're always welcome to

stevenmu

solas wrote:

you should know that I still sleep with a night light on

I'd be tempted to make fun, but I know that if I do I'll wake up half-way through the night with sleep paralysis and not sleep for a week ...

Grimes wrote:

Kennett, I know its only coming into may but lets hear more about the next investigation.

I think there's some whispers of one early in June, but it's very undecided at the moment.

Zillah

Don't worry 6th, I don't think anyone here would let it reflect on you. To be honest, I had my doubts about him from the start (I think we're talking about the same guy).

Good job on being so forward about everything.

stormkeeper

Zillah wrote:

Don't worry 6th, I don't think anyone here would let it reflect on you. To be honest, I had my doubts about him from the start (I think we're talking about the same guy).

If who you think it is, is who I know it is, in honesty, I didn;t expect this from him...

Good job on being so forward about everything.

We/he couldn't not be forward about it; it would be a serious issue if we didn't say anything...

Zillah

Kennett wrote:

If who you think it is, is who I know it is, in honesty, I didn;t expect this from him...

One of the benefits of a sceptical mind...

stormkeeper

I suppose, but considering the person I have in mind and I have done multiple investigations together...

Oryx

Just catching up on this thread, not sure who did what to whom, but 6th, Kennett, this in no way reflects on ye. Youre both part of the fabric of this forum, and your motives always come across as above reproach. The very fact youve started this thread shows how shocked you are to have been messed about like this. Please keep up the good work, and telling us all about it, (cos Ill never get to go) Dont let the bast'ds get you down

Ziycon

lads, you cant hold it againest yourselves, the person from day one must of had the intention of doing it, like its a lot of hassle to go on the trip and them fake incidents! Now one there had any idea someone woudl go as low as that! All i'll say is karma! dont stress over it, if it wasn't for you two lads nothing would ever really happen round here! keep the heads on the goal, to find answers!

sussie

hi lads why are you all worried about who did what ? the person who did it should worrie because he lost other peoples thrust ,as i said before ,it takes a while to become a group where everyone is 100% comfortable with each other. and to undertake an investigation like Charleville i think it was a mistake to have first timers there .it was great to have met Andy[ nice guy] enjoyed the night and thanks for the invite .talk soon

Rachelann

sussie wrote:

and to undertake an investigation like Charleville i think it was a mistake to have first timers there

I think that's being a bit unfair to say that about first timers, especially when he was no stranger to these investigations.

6th wrote:

Its a real dissapointment as this person has been doing investigations for years and runs his own site - I have to question anything i've ever heard from this guy

6th

Riamfada

sussie wrote:

and to undertake an investigation like Charleville i think it was a mistake to have first timers there .

On every investigation you have there will be a need to have new people there.

Just out of interest why was it a bad idea to have the first timers in Charleville ?

stormkeeper

With regards to what was said about first timers, I have to admit, I do find the statement perplexing because first timers are such because it's their first time, both in terms of an opportunity to go and in terms of being able to go. The thing with it is that two years ago, I was a first timer myself, when I started out with the PRAI (one of the 3 initial members) and while I'm no veteran, I am still reasonably experienced with regards to the field. Also, as with any activity, you're always going to have some form of risk (including fakers and people considering this a laugh, etc), but for the most part, I do think the investigation turned out fairly well, given the circumstances, though if anyone was unasatisfied with any aspect of it (apart from the murder mystery crowd issue, which was out of my hands), I would like to hear about it, so I can improve things for the next investigation. I don't think i really saw any form of messing up results (prior to the admission by the individual), though I admit, I did hide on the top floor as a bit of a mess, but stopped doing that after I realised that people got lost!

The person concerned was by no means a first-timer, and as I have said before, it has shocked me that they have done such a thing. Myself and Mark would have no issues with sending someone home in a taxi if it was known to us that someone deliberately acted up because with regards to this, it takes just one admission that something was faked to have people question everything that the team did that night. I know it's totally unfair, but it's understandable too.

The stuff that this person claims to have experienced will unfortunately have to be declared as tainted and not mentioned in the report, though if anyone witnessed the same things that they did, it can be accepted still, because it's not experienced by just them.

It's very late here now, so I'm cutting it short, but if anyone has any concerns about anything, feel free to let myself or Mark know. Telling one of us means that we'll both know about it (if someone wants to remain anonymous, that can be arranged) and will discuss ways of dealing with the issue at hand, then get back to you as soon as possible on the issue.


I'd better stop rambling on now... I do this way too much, lol.

stormkeeper

I've already dealt with most of the three posts above what I just wrote, so I'll go back and polish off the remaining things discussed...

sussie wrote:

it was great to have met Andy[ nice guy] enjoyed the night and thanks for the invite .talk soon

It was great to meet you as well and it was good to have you aboard. Chat to you soon.

Rachelann wrote:

I think that's being a bit unfair to say that about first timers, especially when he was no stranger to these investigations.

It just goes to show that sometimes, you don't always completely know someone...

Grimes wrote:

On every investigation you have there will be a need to have new people there.

I agree with this. It can't really be closed off to people after all...

Just out of interest why was it a bad idea to have the first timers in Charleville ?

I personally don't think it's a bad idea, though I admit that there's generally a higher risk of messers coming from first timers, as opposed to people that have done this before. Now granted, I didn't see didn't see anything in that regard from the people that came along, but that isn't to say it doesn't happen though I really guess it depends on people's interest in it. I know that while I was in the PRAI, we had a few people that shall we say had questionable motives for coming along. Some seemed to think it was a laugh, and another person had other motives, which were unknown to me, but I didn't trust them.

I'm of the personal belief that everyone deserves at least one chance at trying something, so if you blow that chance, you may not get another one. I could go on and on about all this type of stuff to be honest, explaining my reasoning etc, but at the end of the day, I still will agree that it's good to have first timers aboard because it gives people that normally don't get a chance to do this thing a chance to do so, plus it validates previous experiences that have been reported, among other things.


Oh dear, I've rambled on again... lol

I find it terribly ironic that I can ramble on here till the cows come home, yet public speaking scares the bejaysus out of me... more so than ghosts!

Edit: I'll go back and respond to the other two messages a bit later on...

6th

I wont go into a big rant - Andy did that for all of us - but I have to say first timers are a must for me. They're almost like a little experiment in themselves, always good to get a fresh look at things and introduce new people to a fasinating area which most people ignore. And can i say again a big thanks to Grimes, Rachelann, QueenKala & Eoghan (which i still cant spell) as newbies they were great to have along.

6th

stormkeeper

6th wrote:

I wont go into a big rant - Andy did that for all of us - but I have to say first timers are a must for me. They're almost like a little experiment in themselves, always good to get a fresh look at things and introduce new people to a fasinating area which most people ignore.

Well, we all know I agree with this, so lets leave it at that, yes?

And can i say again a big thanks to Grimes, Rachelann, QueenKala & Eoghan (which i still cant spell) as newbies they were great to have along.

Agreed, many thanks to them all.

6th

Ok well latest news is that the person in question denies it. He says that he did mention that the stones thrown at the gate livened things up but he did not claim to have thrown them nore did he throw them.


As you can see people who know him were very surprised by this and maybe thats coz it never happened? All i have is that Mr. X mailed me saying that Mr. Y told Mr. Z that he threw the stones and claimed to have made up seeing stuff.

I'm giving Mr. Y the benefit of the doubt on this one and putting it down to a misunderstanding - i suggest everyone does the same.

stormkeeper

6th wrote:

I'm giving Mr. Y the benefit of the doubt on this one and putting it down to a misunderstanding - i suggest everyone does the same.

Very much agreed.

Gillo

Admittedly I haven't gone on an investigation, it's a bummer trying to get the time.

What if you paired people off with the idea that they watch what each person is doing all night, that way if someone is doing stuff they shouldn't (wedgies included) they should be spotted.

satori

My dearest 6th and all others of the team,

Firstly I would like to say thank you for sharing, as these concerns could always have being concealed and discussed privately, and although this could keep a deeper sense of “face” it also has the ability to help erode your sense of honest progression and search for the truth.

I do hope you all look at this experience, not as a blemish or scar on your path, but a vital signpost and omen that can bring a deeper understanding.

Lets not judge the folly of their actions but seek out where they stem from, what fuels them and what was sought to be achieved.

The price of “proof” should not weight heavy on our hearts, for all things lay in the cradle of perception, and for those that seek the true veritas, illusion and deceit are not the bane of life, but a calling to recognise why we too seek to know what lays beyond and before us.

The lesson, which may leave a sense of distrust, has the opportunity for us all to recognise on a deeper level that as we explore the shadows, we too explore ourselves.

It is not the truth of others we should set to shake, but that of our own, in the end no law is unbounded, no perception untainted and no proof unflawed – except that of the honest heart seeking to divide in sake of union.

Veritas for us all my friends – Veritas.

Love and Light

Satori

6th

Nice poetic post Satori, but there's no bad feelings now. I take him at his word that it was all a misunderstanding - something which can happen easily at 8 in the morning after 2 hours sleep.

stormkeeper

Indeed, very nice and poetic (and a little cryptic in ways too!). Granted, the issue itself has passed, but it still gets you thinking about things...

Ziycon

Kennett wrote:

The stuff that this person claims to have experienced will unfortunately have to be declared as tainted and not mentioned in the report, though if anyone witnessed the same things that they did, it can be accepted still, because it's not experienced by just them.

Im not attacking anyones experiances but if this faker was the first to experiance certain things and then other people started to experiance it could be a case of collective/group hysteria.

For more on collective/group hysteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

Well said satori, maybe the faker commeted these incidents as they are afriad what it will mean or what may happen if the truth is uncovered.

stormkeeper

Ziycon wrote:

Im not attacking anyones experiances but if this faker was the first to experiance certain things and then other people started to experiance it could be a case of collective/group hysteria.

For more on collective/group hysteria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

That may be the case, but we have no way of knowing, so there's no point in chasing it up. I would rather things like this were reported sooner rather than later though, because it makes a mess of things the later it's left to report. Human memory is not the most reliable of things - at least for me it isn't! Also, there's less we can do, the later the incident is reported.

Well said satori, maybe the faker commeted these incidents as they are afriad what it will mean or what may happen if the truth is uncovered.

We had a discussion with the individual in question and both 6th and I felt that it was a misunderstanding; the words this person said could have been misinterpreted as something else entirely, so we're dropping it, suggesting everyone does the same, and putting it behind us, and suggest that everyone else do the same. In fairness though, this guy never faked information before which we mean we can give them the benefit of the doubt. No more needs to be said of this incident to be honest, though I would like to know about this so called "truth that would be uncovered"? I'm a little confused as to what this might be...