HUGE fold,was i right?

connie147

Kilkenny cup,2nd day of the event.14 players left in the tournament.Ive the 2nd biggest stack at the table(68000),CL has just been moved to my table,he has approx 140000.we are 1 hour into the second days play(already lost 3 from the 17 who survived overnite).average stack in the tourney is 48000.I havent really been involved in any hand yet today when I pick up QQ UTG
Blinds are 1000-2000 and I raise to 6000,everyone folds except CL who makes it 16000 to go.His reraise is suspiciously small but I call to see the flop which brings 4-5-6.Now Im in two minds,either check raise all-in or bet out to see if I can get more information as to where I am.(I'm putting him on one of 3 hands,A-A,K-K or A-K).So I bet out 15000 and he quickly reraises another 30,000.I take a long time agonising over my decision,theres no doubt being so close to the money is playing a part in my thoughts, if I now reraise all-in he's obviously calling as its only another 10k to him.I eventually folded ,mainly because, of the 3 possible starting hands I put him on, 2 of them beat me.(I eventually finished 7th and got €3000 but im still thinking back to that hand.thoughts please.

Lafortezza

He could probably do this with a wider range of hands than just AA/KK/AK.
That flop isn't the scariest for TT or JJ or AQ so he might be testing you with a hand like that. It is a tricky decision though. I'd be tempted to re-raise preflop again, stick it all-in.

Benglian

I am no Hold'em expert, but if you ask me QQ is a very dangerous hand. It should be treated as 99 or something. I DON'T see it as a big pair. Back in the days when i did.....
The first hand of the Fitz 270, months ago. I get dealt QQ UTG+1. UTG raises to something like 200, I re-raise I think, to around 600. He (might even have been lafortezza....back before I knew who he was) calls I think. Flop is something like 664. He bets out about the size of the pot and I raise just more than double. He thinks for a tiny while and moves all-in.
Muppet me high on 'doubling up the first hand' possibilities calls like a shot after square-peg-into-round-holing his holding into JJ.
He's says 'oh ****' or something similar and turns over.....KK.

I have been limp-re-raised whilst holding QQ three times in the first hand of a freezout comp, and after going out to AA the first time I called, folded the other two times, and was shown AA both times.

I don't like lafortezzas stick-it-all-in mentality here. You're not short stacked. I fold QQ to pot-committed size aggression every time, when I am not under pressure....

But then I suck at hold'em.

De Deraco

that was me benglian and i dwelt up cause i had nearly putt you on aces. in the above situation it was a big fold and the right move in the 100 game in the fitz i had a very similar situation and folded face up on a rag flop the opponent was nice enough to show KK.
right move imo

Hectorjelly

In most tournaments if you have QQ and someone has AA/KK you should just treat it like a cold deck (unless there is some serious preflop action!), because players in tournaments are very aggressive with 99/TT/JJ/AK and there isnt anyway to tell. I dont really like the fold in the OP for the folowing reasons, 1 because of the size of the pot /you are now getting great odds and are only behind 2 possible hands. 2 If you think you are against AA KK AK then just fold preflop, by calling preflop you are committing yourself on a no AK flop. 3 Its the chip leader and he is probably in aggro mode, therefor you cant rule out any PP or even AK.

Treating QQ like 99 is madness.

cardshark202

I agree with HJ here, I try to get it in here as often as possible.

Ollieboy

1. This guy could be and I guess is, playing bigstack poker against you, for you to call him, you would have to have AA/KK and he knows that.

The laydown is fine if you just want to make the money, but with so much in the pot, I think you really have to call. I had a similiar hand 2 weeks ago against a very aggressive bigstack player, I'm pretty sure I was ahead, but I couldn't afford to take the chance. I think you made the right choice if making the money was your target. If you want to win, you should have called. I think he would have had you on AK/AQ here and force you out of the pot.

By the way, did he go on to win it. If its the guy that won it, I can nearly guess you were way ahead, as he's a very aggressive player on the flop.

connie147

No Ollie,he went on to be second.I just felt his reraise pre flop was only enough to keep me involved.Maybe I should have jammed em in after the flop.Im still argueing with myself.

Daithio

I think it's either a fold preflop or you go all the way with it. I prefer to fold preflop here.

a-k-47

I think it's either a fold preflop or you go all the way with it. I prefer to fold preflop here.

without a read on the cl this is a tough play and im inclined to agree with daithios play. CL has got to give credit for your UTG raise and also you being 2nd cl, aa kk is his range , if he is a good player he will flat call ak with position.. I do think you played this hand ok though, but having played the way u did i would have preferred a check on the flop to see how much he was going to commit post... well done though on FT place.

Hectorjelly

a-k-47 wrote:

CL has got to give credit for your UTG raise and also you being 2nd cl, aa kk is his range , if he is a good player he will flat call ak with position..

why do you say that? I think flat calling with AK there is bad

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

why do you say that? I think flat calling with AK there is bad

Me too. Re-raising is far superior especially if you fold QQ to a 3 bet.

nicnicnic

connie when you asked me this saturday i called but that was without any consideration to the money so this may change things. now i know the opponent i call without hesitation, he could well of having AA kk but believe me he is capable of making the preflop raise with any A rag or any two face cards or any middle pair and putting in the post flop raise if he hit the rag or had any middle pair. I will see him this weekend and find out for you

connie147

nicnicnic wrote:

connie when you asked me this saturday i called but that was without any consideration to the money so this may change things. now i know the opponent i call without hesitation, he could well of having AA kk but believe me he is capable of making the preflop raise with any A rag or any two face cards or any middle pair and putting in the post flop raise if he hit the rag or had any middle pair. I will see him this weekend and find out for you

hey nicky,
dont really know if I want to find oiut his holding.my main reason for posting is that I still cant make up my mind if I done the right thing or not.If he was holding A-K(which is probably the most likely holding)then im leaning towards ive made a bad decision.I had absolutely no info on the player having never played before with him and he had only just joined my table.But if there were 25 players left at the time,I would have gone all-in after the flop so being virtually on the bubble had a huge influence on the decision.

nicnicnic

I would say 80% of the decent players i know would probably make the same decision as you connie related to the bubble and with no info on the player. DO YOU REALLY REALLY REALLY NOT WANT TO FIND OUT HIS HOLDING. also wheres that other hand you were posting, expect some stick for that play:)