Imola GP

steviec

Well I really enjoyed that race. It featured something that really hasn't happened since 5 or 6 years ago - Schumacher dragging a package that really had no right to be there to victory. I've always been a Schumacher fan, and these sort of races made F1 for me back before Ferrari began dominating. It reminded me of the time he put his Benetton on the podium despite being stuck in fifth gear for much of the race, or Spain 96 when he dominated even with serious engine problems.

Renault were the team to beat this weekend, Ferrari certainly looked better on Friday and Saturday but it's clear that was down to their very very aggressive tactics that really pushed their tyres beyond their limit, yet Schumacher held it together and with some classic quick strategy adjustments they beat Alonso when the race should have been his. Yes, it's their own fault that the tyres they had for the race were used. But if they hadn't adopted that tactic they wouldn't have been where they were. They took a huge gamble and made it pay off. I don't think many other drivers could have kept Alonso behind them without making mistakes for that long on tyres in that state. Just look how often Alonso went offline once his tyres started to go - if Schumacher did that just once he'd have lost the race.

Very entertaining race, for quite a while now it's been a matter of whoever has the best car wins, both for Alonso last year and Schumacher the years previous. Nice to see a race won over the race weekend rather than over the previous weeks testing and in the tyre factory.

AdMMM

I don't think Alonso was going off because of bad tyres because he had dirty air and was breaking late often and just generally trying too hard.

Albers flip was quite vicious though. Don't often see F1 cars flip like that, glad he got out of it though!

steviec

Yea it was pretty nasty... I can't remember that happening in quite a view years. Good to see him walk away though, Formula 1 cars are very safe these days, although there's always the chance something could go wrong at the speeds they do.

Does anyone else find it wrong that the Lollipop man got blamed for Button's botched stop? He did raise it, but he put it back down immediately and we've often seen that happen and the car just jolts forward and stops, the mechanics readjust themselves and complete the stop. Button has to take at least 50% of the blame for driving straight through the lollipop stick after it came back down.

Running Bing

I thought that was a dreadful race(if you could call it that). Incredibly boring. In the whole itv show not one overtaking move was shown:eek: People complain that nowadays f1 is more about pitstop strategy then racing. While I always defend F1(and for the majority of races I disagree with this) yesterdays gp was nothing more than a glorified game of chess:( Not even the alonso schumacher battle was that interesting because it never looked like alonso was getting past and eventually it just got boring and even frustrating to watch. As for the button incident it was a mistake by the lollipop man as simple as that. The car accelerates so quickly you only have a split second to make a decsion and in this case button didnt react quickly enough, but to say it was 50% his fault is wrong imo.

I agree its nice to see a car winning thats not the best but lets face it this race was won on saturday and in the pits and not on the race track yesterday.

BFassassin

i missed the race and didnt see any highlights

Dcully

Absolutely rubbish race.
Alonso was clearly so much faster than Schumi but F1 as it is passing is non existent on narrow tracks like Imola.
Boring boring boring,i enjoyed all the other races this year but this was terrible.
Give me GT racing,ALMS or anything for that matter any day.
I went to Mondello Park after this to see real racing with BTCC.
Ok they dont sound anyway near as impressive or as fast but for real racing it was much better than Imola GP.
A real pity as the other F1 races this year were good.

steviec

Overtaking should be difficult. And I did see Webber overtake Raikkonen, and it's not like the Williams is vastly superior so it's by no means impossible. Saying F1 is rubbish because there's not enough overtaking is like saying soccer is rubbish compared to basketball cos much fewer points are scored. Personally I admire great defensive driving and brilliant strategy.

"Alonso was clearly so much faster than Schumi but F1 as it is passing is non existent on narrow tracks like Imola."

So Alonso should just have the race on a plate because he's quicker? That would make it more entertaining? The very fact that overtaking is difficult is what allowed Ferrari to be so aggressive on tyres and get themselves in a position they otherwise wouldn't, and the fact that strategy is so important allowed them to hold that position. If you want Alonso to win just because he's fastest why not just let everyone take turns to record a laptime and declare a winner after that? I prefer a sport where a team can use strategy to get themselves a victory without having to have the fastest car. Renault had the better car this weekend, but Ferrari outsmarted them.

Magown3

The only thing that made me stay tuned right to the end was the fact that Alonso DIDN'T overtake Schumacher. I said to myself at the time that if he got by Schumacher and pulled away, I was just gonna switch off an not bother watchin the rest.

It was more exciting knowing Alonso was faster but couldn't get by.

An did anyone see Flavio B. smiling an laughing toward the end of the race as if to suggest they were just playing with Ferrari and could/would get by whenever they wanted.... Smug Pr**k!! :mad: I'm glad they didn't get the win.

Dcully

So Alonso should just have the race on a plate because he's quicker

My point is In most other racing series the faster car WILL overtake,F1 Not so.

I prefer a sport where a team can use strategy to get themselves a victory without having to have the fastest car. Renault had the better car this weekend, but Ferrari outsmarted them.

You enjoy that? Maybe you enjoy chess also?
Fair play to ya but i find it boring.

OSiriS

I think the race we saw at imola is indicitive of why so many people have gone off F1. Listening to interviews with drivers, mechanics and team owners they were all resigned to the fact that you can't overtake at this circuit. It really baffles me as to why they leave it on the calender. It really is a sad day when a driver can be 4 seconds a lap faster than the guy in front of him, yet he can't pass because there is no-where to pass on the track. It's not like Schumacher had to drive defensively to keep Alonso behind him.

SouperComputer

Saying F1 is rubbish because there's not enough overtaking is like saying soccer is rubbish compared to basketball cos much fewer points are scored. Personally I admire great defensive driving and brilliant strategy.

Thats a poor analogy.

When you attempt an overtaking move it usually involves a much higher risk than shooting for a hoop in basketball or going for a goal in football. When was the last time a team was eliminated from a basketball game a for misjudged shoot? Or for that matter risked very possible injury\death in doing so? This is part of the specatcle of motor racing. Plenty of overtaking occurs in MotoGP, and it is far from boring.

I also admire defensive driving, I didnt see much on Sunday though!

It amazes me that tactics is almost all some people expect from the supposed pinnacle of Motorsport. Racing is about close competition and risk-taking resulting in a good spectacle.

Running Bing

steviec wrote:

Saying F1 is rubbish because there's not enough overtaking is like saying soccer is rubbish compared to basketball cos much fewer points are scored.

No its not! nothing like it. And I would never say f1 is rubbish(I love f1 and Im a massive fan as you will see from my previous posts on this forum) but imola is rubbish simple as that. OSiriS hit the nail on the head when he pointed out everyone knows you cant overtake at the track so why keep up the charade. Hungary is another example. This is all the more painful when you hear a track like suzuka are being ousted:mad:

steviec wrote:

I prefer a sport where a team can use strategy to get themselves a victory without having to have the fastest car. Renault had the better car this weekend, but Ferrari outsmarted them.

I dont think anybody would disagree that its good to see a a car winning that isnt the fastest but nobody wants to see a procession like that witnessed on sunday. Defensive driving is great to see and Schumacher is great at it but thats not what we saw on Sunday. Schumi didnt have to make one blocking move it was all about keeping your head and not making a mistake. Thats not defensive driving.

MrPudding

steviec wrote:

Does anyone else find it wrong that the Lollipop man got blamed for Button's botched stop?

No

steviec wrote:

He did raise it, but he put it back down immediately

Not quite immediately, the car was already accelerating with the pedal, I would imagine, stuck to the floor.

steviec wrote:

and we've often seen that happen and the car just jolts forward and stops, the mechanics readjust themselves and complete the stop. Button has to take at least 50% of the blame for driving straight through the lollipop stick after it came back down.

I don't think it can bo 50 / 50. Button is there waiting for it to lift. He knows nothing other than the lollipop. He is concentrating 100% on it's movement. Once it lifts he plants it and forgets about the lollipop. Now he is looking at the pit crew in the next garage, the pit lane and the pit exit.

These guys have lightning fast reflexes but to expect them to stop instantly when the lollipop come back down is, I think, a bit unfair.

MrP

OSiriS

how often do you see a trailing driver actually get close enough to force the guy in front of him to drive defensively?. Personally I love close racing and watching drivers desperately defend against a faster driver, but given modern aerodynamics we haven't seen this much in years. Cars are so dependent on aerodynamics these days that they can't cope with the turbulent air coming of a car ahead of them. This is why we don't see nose-to-tail battles anymore. to overtake someone you either need to outbrake them into a corner, or carry sufficient speed that you can avoid their turbulence around the side. The former is how most signifigant overtaking manoeuvres are achieved. The latter needs a decent performance gap.

steviec

OSiriS wrote:

how often do you see a trailing driver actually get close enough to force the guy in front of him to drive defensively?. Personally I love close racing and watching drivers desperately defend against a faster driver, but given modern aerodynamics we haven't seen this much in years. Cars are so dependent on aerodynamics these days that they can't cope with the turbulent air coming of a car ahead of them. This is why we don't see nose-to-tail battles anymore. to overtake someone you either need to outbrake them into a corner, or carry sufficient speed that you can avoid their turbulence around the side. The former is how most signifigant overtaking manoeuvres are achieved. The latter needs a decent performance gap.

Thats what the new wings are for, either next year or the year after I can't remember.

However I still thought it was a fantastic race, if Alonso just breezed past it would have been a hell of a lot more boring. And there's a difference between very hard to overtake and impossible, other people passed cars of similar performance to them on race day, it can be done. It was never certain Schumacher could hold him off until the mistakes Alonso made on the second last lap.

OSiriS

It was obvious from where I was sitting that he wouldn't get close to making an attempt to pass.

Kersh

Its not just the wings that supply downforce or prevent a following car from overtaking. Its the attachment of air over the whole car - once that is disrupted, the car doesnt do what its supposed to.
The new rules being referred to are for the rear wing, not the front wing, which is the most critical thing on the car as it supplies and directs the air to the bargeboards and bodywork and under to the diffuser.
As for the race - In all honesty, Schumacher light fuelled his car, wound down the revs in the middle stint, and then wound them back up again when Alonso came in, thats how his 'in lap' was so quick compared to his relative pace (3 secs iirc). MS knew the strategy would only work if he saved fuel in the middle stint (allowing him to run the car using less fuel than normal) - once he got out ahead of Alonso, he had it in the bag.
Ferrari outfoxed Renault, simple as that. Dont think the ferrari is THAT inferior to the Renault, MS was sandbagging to make the strategy work.

Ay Cee

First time I've missed an F1 race is 6 or 7 years
Because I was in of all places - ITALY!!!

The Italians were very pleased Ferrari won to say the least