How to finish veneer - lacquer ?

franksm

Hi folks

I'm reveneering a wooden dashboard - have a sheet of walnut burr to lay down. I haven't had good results in the past with brushing varnish - no matter how good the brush, it's never perfect.

You can see here what I'm talking about:

http://mx5ireland.com/stag/DSC02867.JPG

(although maybe I should have tried thinning the varnish with white spirits ?)

So, is there a spray-lacquer available that's as hardy as marine/exterior varnish ?

Thanks

Frank

mad m

Im assuming you can take the dashboard off? Have you tried an airfix airbrush maybe? Its just an idea,I've never used one myself but something like the size of your dashboard it could be perfect.

I think you can get the airbrush as a kit with a can of air etc...The key thing also with using varnish is to lay down thin coats and build it up,never try and get away with a heavy coat.And always use fine sandpaper(Wet&dry sandpaper).

If it was me doing the dash I would use a two pack cellouse based lacquer,its fast drying so you can put on numerous coats in one day,but I think the recommended is three coats in one day and once you put the catalyst hardener in I think the whole gallon has a shelf life of 36hours...You can also get waterbased ready mixed lacquer in either Satin/gloss.

I would use very fine sandpaper inbetween coats also,start with P120 then work your way up to P200 for the finish coat.I would suggest using a Satin finish as if you make a mistake it wont show up as much as a gloss finish.

Last time I priced waterbased lacquer it was €60 a gallon whilst I think the celloused based lacquer is cheaper.

Just had a thought,have you considered to French polish the dashboard?,you need some French polish lacquer,some cotton balls to apply it and some very fine steel wool.You apply polish with cotton balls(its drys quickly)and sand it down lightly then do the whole process again building up the coats...Maybe do a sample on another piece of wood before you start anything..

Hope this helps...

franksm

Thanks ! That's a great help.

Yes, the dashboard comes off - seven pieces of wood in all, nothing bigger than 45cm x 16cm. Six of the pieces shown here:

http://mx5ireland.com/stag/DSC02565.JPG

So things to research:
- airfix airbrush
- two pack cellouse based lacquer
- or waterbased ready-mixed lacquer
- French polish - never considered this, don't know much about it but probably won't be able to make use of it as the car is a convertible, so the finish would need to be fairly hardy against the sun, dust etc.

Is there somwhere I can buy this gear ? I'd normally go to B&Q for such stuff, but if it were me being asked about where's good to buy car stuff, I'd be recommending somewhere like Tallaght Autoparts rather than Halfords - if you catch my drift.

antoinolachtnai

B+Q don't do the two-part laquer as far as I know. I think Atlantic, Chadwicks or Woodies do it though, as do the 'serious' paint places like MRCB. I have used it on floorboards, not on veneer!

You can buy a one-litre box, you don't have to buy a whole gallon. And you don't have to mix up the whole lot in one go.

Rustins is the main brand now.

Alun

Possibly another route, if you want a really good finish, would be to find a good antiques restorer or french polisher to do it for you. Might even work out cheaper in the long run after all.

kadman

Alun wrote:

Possibly another route, if you want a really good finish, would be to find a good antiques restorer or french polisher to do it for you. Might even work out cheaper in the long run after all.

Best option for you is an aerosol can of spray clear laquer. Its very user friendly , same as using a can of cellulose touch spray. Lots of thin coats , as opposed to heavy coats.

French polish is not the best choice for a number of reasons. Although in the hands of an expert ( i have polished for 20+ years ) it will give you an extremely lustrous finish. But it is not as durable as modern day finishes, and is not waterproof. So a small amount of moisture will damage the finish.

An air brush is an excellent tool, but is requires some experience to use it efficiently. Although it looks simple, its not, so beware.
kadman

Alun

I didn't necessarily mean that he should actually french polish it, but that someone experienced in such techniques might be able to make a better job of it, using whatever modern materials they deem fit, than an amateur. My grandad, who was a master antiques restorer, could always make a much better job of any kind of varnishing / painting / lacquering job than anyone I know of. The temptation to put on just that little bit extra with spray lacquers or paints is just too much for most people, including myself

As an aside, does anyone have an idea what they used in classic cars like Rolls-Royces, for example, before synthetic lacquers and such like were invented?

The Doktor

Do not even think of using a spray can! From my experience, it is far to easy to make a total mess of it. Also the airbrush route isnt a bad idea, but its a fair expenditure for one job. There is no point in buying a cheap one for it.
I would go the route that Alun is saying first.. and if you dont get where you want to go, then maybe Airbrush/laquer (let me know if you want to go airbrush, I have a fair collection of em, and am not too bad.. if i do say so meself.. )

mad m

Had a look on ebay and the Airbrushes can be expensive plus you need a compressor.Also you would want to know what your buying and not some cheap one.

Maybe goto one of the hireshops and check out a gravity feed spray gun,you will need a space like a garage and somewhere more or less dust free so you can spray your dashboard items,dont forget safety mask.Spray gun

Maybe this way is more expensive,but whatever route you go post back and let us see the finished job...

kadman

Original finishes on early Rolls Royces, would probably have been french polish. But french polish is not a durable finish suited for a high contact / traffic area, and there are more suitable finishes in todays market. It is not especially impact resistant, chips easily, and is not easily repairable.

On the other hand, two part lacquers, single pack, and epoxy plastic coatings are available that would fit the bill you need. Most are chemical resistant, scratch resistant, and impact proof to some degree.

Cost wise a coat of lacquer would be cheaper to get applied, than a french polish finish.

I'm not suggesting preferences towards on or the other, but just stating the benefits of one over the other. In short its your choice.

kadman

franksm

The Doktor wrote:

Do not even think of using a spray can!

Some great advice here...

In dust-free, warm conditions, would a spray-can not suffice ? Or is it still not uniform enough ? I know it's a compromise when using spraycans on bodywork, but on small items it tends to be "okay".

I've just shelled out a small bit on tools, and need to get a welding machine now too - so a compressor + airbrush to be added to the list

the other lads tend to send their wood items to the UK for reveneering, which is a pity. I'd say there's an opening in the market here for some enterprising individual

mad m

Well you could always give the aerosol a go,do a few testers first.I seen somewhere on tweaking&modding some bloke who took his laptop apart and prepared the main surfaces and sprayed them with a colour,then used a high gloss lacquer as a finish.

I have to say it looked great when he was finished,but he did say he had to be carefull with it over a few months because the coatings were vunerable to being easily scratched as the lacquers/paints takes a while to finally dry.

kadman

franksm wrote:

the other lads tend to send their wood items to the UK for reveneering, which is a pity. I'd say there's an opening in the market here for some enterprising individual

Tell me more, what sort of prices are they being charged, and what veneers.
Presumably burrl walnut, elm, and oak. I might be interested .

kadman:D

franksm

£175 STG is the going rate - exchange basis - but some companies (www.rimmerbros.co.uk) typically charge £350 upwards, exhange ! Walnut burr is the standard choice, and for most cars it's absolutely fine.

So you can see why I'm DIY'ing it Those prices are crazy - they got away with it in the past as classic cars were the mainstay of the upper middle-class, but now they're within reach of anyone.

Charge something reasonable, put some ads in the UK, and you'll have people coming to you.

A couple of companies have started up in the UK making pre-cut adhesive walnut veneer - in the same vein as the naff stuff that has been on the market for years but at much better quality. However, problem here is that it just sticks ontop of the existing wood, and being 2 mm or more thick, doesn't look the best - the edges look a bit amateurish. But, going rate for these is £70 STG and they advertise on Ebay now too.

Still, with that in mind, most people would pay more for a "proper" job.

(BTW it's the same with chroming - all that work goes to the UK; the only chromers we found in Ireland are those that do chroming for furniture - eg barstools. Such chrome doesn't last more than a year on bumpers and the like)

The Doktor

franksm wrote:

Some great advice here...

In dust-free, warm conditions, would a spray-can not suffice ? Or is it still not uniform enough ? I know it's a compromise when using spraycans on bodywork, but on small items it tends to be "okay".

With spray cans, it is very hard to get the really shiny finish that you would want on your dash. Also the amount of times I have had jobs ruined by bubbles in propellant...:mad: !! I`m sure you dont want bubbles on your dash. I find clear laquers worst for this.
What I do is actually take the paint out of the spray can, let the propellant evaporate, and use it through an airbrush.