Some minraise questions

fuzzbox

Ok - here are some situations from last night involving a minraise preflop.

Stacks - I have 10k, villain has 6.5k
Blinds 100/200
I am chip lead in the tourney.

Folded to MP - who minraises. He has minraised a few times. I have never seen his hand when he has done it.

I have 88 on the button ... your move?

---

Same tourney -
Same villain
Stacks - me : 9.5k, villain 5.5k

Blinds still 100/200

Folded to villain in the CO who minraises, folded to me in the BB ... I have KdTc ... your move?

Waylander

Call every time with a small \ medium pair here.

charlesanto

call the first one - min raise mid-pos shows strenght

raise the second (x6BB)- min raise late position weak attempt to steal

brianmc

fuzzbox wrote:

Ok - here are some situations from last night involving a minraise preflop.

Stacks - I have 10k, villain has 6.5k
Blinds 100/200
I am chip lead in the tourney.

Folded to MP - who minraises. He has minraised a few times. I have never seen his hand when he has done it.

I have 88 on the button ... your move?

---

Same tourney -
Same villain
Stacks - me : 9.5k, villain 5.5k

Blinds still 100/200

Folded to villain in the CO who minraises, folded to me in the BB ... I have KdTc ... your move?

Hand 1:

I'm expecting small to mid pair. He'll probably call a raise (ego) and fold when there's an overcard on the flop. On a low flop tread with caution. He probably won't drop his overpair and now you have to figure out whose got the biggest pair.

Hand 2:

He knows he should raise here but he's afraid he won't get any action. Call and try really hard to hit two pair, trips or a straight. There's definitely no point in trying to hit a ten high flop.

ianmc38

Hand 1 - Call
Hand 2 - Why bother? Fold.

Number 2 will also depend on whether you saw the hand he minraised with in number 1.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Hand 2 - Why bother? Fold.

Because he minraises a lot, I have 3.5:1 odds, and if he wants to get my blinds then I want him to work hard.

fuzzbox

I called both - heads up to the flop

Hand 1 ----
Pot (900)
K62r -
He bets 300 .... ? I call (???) with 88. Turn K, he checks and folds when I bet half the pot.

Hand 2 ----
Pot (900)
KcTd7d
I lead 450, he minraises again, I push, he calls with AA hahaha - until the A hits the river ... boooo

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

Because he minraises a lot, I have 3.5:1 odds, and if he wants to get my blinds then I want him to work hard.

Well don't forget to type in the chat box "Stop min-raising me you **** donk"

Didn't realise you were BB, i'll call and see a flop but min-raise from CO will often be a biggy, though perhaps not from a serial minraiser.

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

he calls with AA hahaha

Not surprising. I would say a big hand will be seen a large % of the time in this situation.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

Not surprising. I would say a big hand will be seen a large % of the time in this situation.

How come - when he raises from MP -every1 says "he has a crappy hand", but if he raises from CO - he has a monster?

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

How come - when he raises from MP -every1 says "he has a crappy hand", but if he raises from CO - he has a monster?

Well I don't agree with the general consensus of a small-medium pocket pair. A min-raise from MP-LP from Joe Donkey is nearly always AA or KK.

Same is true in many ring games.

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

Well I don't agree with the general consensus of a small-medium pocket pair. A min-raise from MP-LP from Joe Donkey is nearly always AA or KK.

Same is true in many ring games.

I completely disagree, do you routinely fold your BB to a min raise from MP-LP

EDIT: Nor do I agree that a min raise nearly always means a small to mid PP, I'd give them a much much wider range than this.

ianmc38

Out of 10000 donkey minraises i've seen, precisely 9999 of them have been AA or KK. But i will call knowing that they'll go to the felt with their big pair no matter what the texture of the board is.

5starpool

ianmc38 wrote:

Out of 10000 donkey minraises i've seen, precisely 9999 of them have been AA or KK. But i will call knowing that they'll go to the felt with their big pair no matter what the texture of the board is.

This certainly is not something I agree with. This is probably true for a certain type of minraiser, but not for all of them.

As pointed out above there are people that minraise 'for value' in case they hit a set with a medium pair. There are people that minraise with suited connectors cause some book told them they were valuable cards in certain situations. There are people that minraise with any two picture cards or suited ace because they might hit a flop. There are people who might minraise with all of the above. Occasionally these people like to 'mix it up' by going all in preflop for nine million times the BB with either 22 or AA.

Then there are decent players. The only time I can ever recall open min-raising preflop was just to confuse/amuse people at a table where I knew several of the players well and wasn't really playing as serious as I should have.

ianmc38

Maybe i need to start using my sarcasm tags again. Of course various donks will min-raise with a variety of hands be it TJs, a PP or any two broadways.

The donks that do it with AA/KK are often the same that do it with a flopped set.

I'm considering adding the min-raise bluff to my repertoire. I think there's a lot of scope for using it against good opponents.

5starpool

I thought my sarcasmometer had passed the NST recently. I must get it serviced again. I might even look on Buy and Sell for one.

I must admit it was 'extremely' well disguised sarcasm however. Kudos.

brianmc

fuzzbox wrote:

How come - when he raises from MP -every1 says "he has a crappy hand", but if he raises from CO - he has a monster?

As far as I can tell (and I seemed to get it right this time! ). In EP the min raise is prompted by the fact that they aren't confident about putting much money in the pot with their holding since whether they actively know it or not - they are out of position with a vulnerable hand. The hand though tends to be good enough to make them feel that they are supposed to raise with it, such as a mid or even a low PP, maybe (but not often in my experience) AT, KJ, QJ.

In LP the villains tend to be more confident about putting chips in the pot (again, whether or not they consciously realise that they have position) so the motivation for the min raise is a fear that they won't get action. Hence the big hands shown-down.

They see a raise as a raise but don't understand the significance of the odds they are giving with their bet sizing. Their bet size is SOLELY based on a compromise between how much action they think they want and how strong they think their hand is.

Waylander

brianmc wrote:

In LP the villains tend to be more confident about putting chips in the pot (again, whether or not they consciously realise that they have position) so the motivation for the min raise is a fear that they won't get action. Hence the big hands shown-down.

.

Then when they do get action, and get outdrawn, they hang around biatching and whinging about the awful player who called a raise with 7 9 o.