Contractors - Allowed to use Cash and Carries

trotter_inc

Might be the wrong forum but here goes...

Im in IT contracting atm, setup under an umbrella company. The company has a VAT number and Registration number.

My question is... can I buy stuff from cash and carries? How does it operate? Do I just give them a VAT number? Would the sale be registered for tax or what!?

Was in Musgraves a while back and their goods are obviously a lot cheaper than retailers. I just bought a house and was thinking about getting some stuff from them, TV for example, garden furniture, etc....

Thanks

eth0_

Yeah you can. There's one near me in Camden Row, I keep meaning to register.

eth0_

Yeah you can. There's one near me in Camden Row, I keep meaning to register.

DOLEMAN

I cannot think of any reason why not! A VAT number is a VAT number...

I think you need to register with them and get a special card or something like that?

trotter_inc

DOLEMAN wrote:

I cannot think of any reason why not! A VAT number is a VAT number...

I think you need to register with them and get a special card or something like that?

Nice one! I wont get caught for a big VAT bill or anything would I?

There's no catch is there? They just need the VAT number to prove Im a registered company?

yop

Yip, that is all you neeed, I used to do it and never heard anything about VAT!

trotter_inc

yop wrote:

Yip, that is all you neeed, I used to do it and never heard anything about VAT!

Ah right - nice one - will stock up on some beer too when Im in there

ballooba

What's to stop you buying from any company using your VAT number.

Electrical wholesaler's would be a lot better than Cash & Carry for TV/whatever.

trotter_inc

ballooba wrote:

What's to stop you buying from any company using your VAT number.

Electrical wholesaler's would be a lot better than Cash & Carry for TV/whatever.

True, just thought that if you buy using your VAT number that you might get charged extra tax or something! Sorry - havent a clue about tax or anything like that....

trotter_inc

ballooba wrote:

Electrical wholesaler's would be a lot better than Cash & Carry for TV/whatever.

Know any of these ballooba?

Did a Google on it and cant find much!

Cheers

Bluetonic

trotter_inc wrote:

Might be the wrong forum but here goes...

Im in IT contracting atm, setup under an umbrella company. The company has a VAT number and Registration number.

My question is... can I buy stuff from cash and carries? How does it operate? Do I just give them a VAT number? Would the sale be registered for tax or what!?

Was in Musgraves a while back and their goods are obviously a lot cheaper than retailers. I just bought a house and was thinking about getting some stuff from them, TV for example, garden furniture, etc....

Thanks

How are you going justify a TV, garden furnitnite, beer, etc, as a business related purchase to revenue?

trotter_inc wrote:

havent a clue about tax or anything like that....

Says it all really. Ring the Revenue and see what they advise.

trotter_inc

Bluetonic wrote:

Says it all really.

Why do you think I posted the question!? If I had known the answer to my question I wouldnt have posted it on Boards!!

jhegarty

Bluetonic wrote:

How are you going justify a TV, garden furnitnite, beer, etc, as a business related purchase to revenue?


Says it all really. Ring the Revenue and see what they advise.

you don't have to , as long as you are paying the vat yourself... the only problems is if you where to try and claim the vat back, which would be fraud....

trotter_inc

jhegarty wrote:

you don't have to , as long as you are paying the vat yourself... the only problems is if you where to try and claim the vat back, which would be fraud....

That what I was thinking wrt tax, I wouldnt want to be claiming it back...

DublinWriter

trotter_inc wrote:

Im in IT contracting atm, setup under an umbrella company. The company has a VAT number and Registration number.

My question is... can I buy stuff from cash and carries?

Don't forget - you're trading under an umbrella company which I presume isn't 'yours' and that you're not a director of.

I doubt the umbrella company would be best pleased if you go around setting up accounts with suppliers without their consent.

trotter_inc

DublinWriter wrote:

Don't forget - you're trading under an umbrella company which I presume isn't 'yours' and that you're not a director of.

I am a director of the company.

Buttony

I remember once shopping in musgraves with a friend and the tax is added when you get to the counter so if you are going around pricing things don't forget to factor this in.

DublinWriter

trotter_inc wrote:

I am a director of the company.

Kewl. Let us know how you get on, I have my own VAT-Registered Ltd. company too and never thought that I could qualify for a C&C card.

DublinWriter

jhegarty wrote:

you don't have to , as long as you are paying the vat yourself... the only problems is if you where to try and claim the vat back, which would be fraud....

Only if the items weren't related to business activity.

I wouldn't go putting your Musgraves purchases through the company books and/or treating them as expenses unless they were business related.

Bluetonic

trotter_inc wrote:

Why do you think I posted the question!? If I had known the answer to my question I wouldnt have posted it on Boards!!

A little knoweldge is dangerous.

For the only definitive answer you'll have to ring Revenue.

MrPudding

Bluetonic wrote:

A little knoweldge is dangerous.

For the only definitive answer you'll have to ring Revenue.

You are perfectly entitled to do it. You can buy whatever you want. However, you can only claim VAT back on items purchased for the ooperation of your business.

For example, you could go in there tomorrow and buy a case of beer and some envelopes. You can claim the VAT back on the envelopes as they are a reasonable expense for any business but you could n ot claim the VAT back on the beer as it is not something you need to buy as an IT consultant.

When you go to a cash and carry you still pay the VAT it is not like you automatically are getting off ith paying it. The advantage is, as far as I know, some prices *may* be cheaper (I checked out Musgraves the other day and found several items where the ex VAT price was greater the the retail price in Dunnes in Cornellscourt) and you get a nice receipt detailing the VAT which makes iot easier to claim back where applicable.

MrP

galway008

Musgraves and others will usually require you to prove that you are a legitamate retailer, and will require evidence, i.e. invoices from other suppliers.

Revenue make Cash and Carry's register with them and report goods bought from them for each retailer. However, Revenue may or may not use this data, usually they will use it in an audit of a Retailers business.

Our man in Havana

In my local C&C they don't giving a flying f**k what your company does or doesn't do so long as you have a Company number and a VAT number.

I buys all my beer and soft drinks from there. Its amazing the mark up on a 2ltr coke.

MrPudding

Bond-007 wrote:

In my local C&C they don't giving a flying f**k what your company does or doesn't do so long as you have a Company number and a VAT number.

I buys all my beer and soft drinks from there. Its amazing the mark up on a 2ltr coke.

Exactly. It is no skin off the revenue's nose unless you actually claim the VAT back.

MrP

ambasite

working on IT contract under a managed company, through cXc Exchange, was told that i could claim back 100% cost buying PC/Laptop Is this for real?

DublinWriter

galway008 wrote:

Musgraves and others will usually require you to prove that you are a legitamate retailer, and will require evidence, i.e. invoices from other suppliers.

True, a fellow IT contractor I know tried to set up with Musgraves before Xmas and he was told that there needs to be a minimum number of 4 employes on the company payroll.

DublinWriter

ambasite wrote:

working on IT contract under a managed company, through cXc Exchange, was told that i could claim back 100% cost buying PC/Laptop Is this for real?

Yup, as long as the managed company you work for are agreeable.

You basically subtract the cost of the laptop against your earnings for the year and work your tax on the difference.

You should be also able to claim tax free subsistance and milage at current Civil Service rates.

Our man in Havana

DublinWriter wrote:

True, a fellow IT contractor I know tried to set up with Musgraves before Xmas and he was told that there needs to be a minimum number of 4 employes on the company payroll.

That can be faked. How are they going to check?

gerrycollins

musgraves require company number,vat number and a small reason why and what you will be buying there,you can excuse the beer for a few office drinks to celebrate a deal etc there are loads of excuses which all could be legit with revenue so they dont investigate everthing unless major audit by CAB lol only messin,the vat thing is your own choice musgraves just put it seperate on the docket to make life easy for you

ambasite

DublinWriter wrote:

Yup, as long as the managed company you work for are agreeable.

You basically subtract the cost of the laptop against your earnings for the year and work your tax on the difference.

You should be also able to claim tax free subsistance and milage at current Civil Service rates.

Thanks. Other expenses that i have claimed have been added to my net salary at the end of every month, such as milage, business meetings, technical books, equipment, etc, would it not work the same for the purchase of a PC? i.e. cost of PC added to net salary at the end of the month?

DublinWriter

gerrycollins wrote:

musgraves require company number,vat number and a small reason why and what you will be buying there,you can excuse the beer for a few office drinks to celebrate a deal etc there are loads of excuses which all could be legit with revenue so they dont investigate everthing unless major audit by CAB lol only messin,the vat thing is your own choice musgraves just put it seperate on the docket to make life easy for you

Where did you do sit your certified accounting exam? Smurfland?

I was VAT audited about this time last year. They'll come out to your place for the day at least and sit on your books.

A friend of mine is up for a VAT audit himself soon.

The scariest bit is when then give you the official spiel at the start that they have to proceed all audits with, outlining the various penalites and sanctions which they can impose on you.

Anyway, only business related items can be offset against earnings. There is a tax provision for 'client entertaining' but I wouldn't go expensing trays of beer through the company books.

If you are going to be buying stuff like beer/food through your company from a C&C, pay via company cheque, but pay back your own company through a Director's Loan A/C in your accounts.

That way you can seperated the business related stuff from the beer-related stuff that you purchased in a single transaction.

From what I hear anyway, it's cheaper to go up to Newry for provisions and vittles than use ROI C&Cs.

DublinWriter

ambasite wrote:

Thanks. Other expenses that i have claimed have been added to my net salary at the end of every month, such as milage, business meetings, technical books, equipment, etc, would it not work the same for the purchase of a PC? i.e. cost of PC added to net salary at the end of the month?

It really depends on the relationship you have with your umbrella company.

However, a PC purchased through your umbrella company would remain the property of the umbrella company. It would be their capital purchase.

Under my own Ltd. company, not only can I purchase a PC, get the VAT back, offset the cost against earnings to lower my tax, but I can also get tax relief on the depreication of the PC for the next 5 years!

You'll find specifics on all this at www.revenue.ie.

For me, I have much greater flexibility operating my own Ltd. company. Yes the paperwork is a pain, but on the whole, it's well worth doing.

tred

trotter_inc wrote:

Might be the wrong forum but here goes...

Im in IT contracting atm, setup under an umbrella company. The company has a VAT number and Registration number.

My question is... can I buy stuff from cash and carries? How does it operate? Do I just give them a VAT number? Would the sale be registered for tax or what!?

Was in Musgraves a while back and their goods are obviously a lot cheaper than retailers. I just bought a house and was thinking about getting some stuff from them, TV for example, garden furniture, etc....

Thanks

youll need the VAT number when you apply for your cash and carry card, just to say your in business. You can buy what u like then for personal use, but you can only claim the VAT back if its business related. who is currently looking after your VAT returns? are you allowed to buy say a PC and claim VAT back against your umbrella company?

trotter_inc

tred wrote:

who is currently looking after your VAT returns? are you allowed to buy say a PC and claim VAT back against your umbrella company?

I am set up under an umbrella company, they do all my invoicing and VAT returns every month. I have bought stuff like a PC and office furniture and they have claimed the VAT back for me before.

Rang my local Musgraves and they said they've no problem opening an account for me, so happy days Will buy what I want and just pay for the VAT when buying the goods.

tred

trotter_inc wrote:

I am set up under an umbrella company, they do all my invoicing and VAT returns every month. I have bought stuff like a PC and office furniture and they have claimed the VAT back for me before.

Rang my local Musgraves and they said they've no problem opening an account for me, so happy days Will buy what I want and just pay for the VAT when buying the goods.

Exactly. There can be some good deals in there

JackieChan

Guys, can you give a link or list where Musgraves are in the country. I've tried their website and googling and can't seem to find a list.
Is there one in Portlaoise?

trotter_inc

JackieChan wrote:

Guys, can you give a link or list where Musgraves are in the country. I've tried their website and googling and can't seem to find a list.
Is there one in Portlaoise?

I couldnt find a list on their site either JackieChan, I just know there was one in my locality. Best bet would be to ring them, or 11850, they'd tell you if there was one in Portlaoise.

Im sure there are other cash and carries in Portlaoise either way.

MrPudding

DublinWriter wrote:

True, a fellow IT contractor I know tried to set up with Musgraves before Xmas and he was told that there needs to be a minimum number of 4 employes on the company payroll.

I was in Musgrave last week and all they want is the applicatio form filled in and copies of 2 invoices I have received.

MrP

JackieChan

Checking the web(goldenpages is a f*cking joke) I found 4Acres/Better Deal cash and carries.
I tried to give them a buzz but no answer so sent them an email.
Does anyone know of these?

SouperComputer

Trotter Inc wrote:

Will buy what I want and just pay for the VAT when buying the goods.

You'll have to pay the VAT anyway!

There is no such thing as VAT free, with the exception of some charities. Instead you get a credit for your VAT purchases that is taken off your VAT owed for sales.

Musgraves just need 2 invoices from other companies that are invoiced out to your company. Easy peasy, job done.

Crea

Hi,
I'm a director of a software contracting company and queried this with Musgraves. My brothers friend was a manager there and said that ususally they'll only give a card to company's with a number of employees. He was going to swing something for me but left before I got off my ass and signed up.

gerrycollins

DublinWriter wrote:

Where did you do sit your certified accounting exam? Smurfland?

I was VAT audited about this time last year. They'll come out to your place for the day at least and sit on your books.

A friend of mine is up for a VAT audit himself soon.

The scariest bit is when then give you the official spiel at the start that they have to proceed all audits with, outlining the various penalites and sanctions which they can impose on you.

Anyway, only business related items can be offset against earnings. There is a tax provision for 'client entertaining' but I wouldn't go expensing trays of beer through the company books.

If you are going to be buying stuff like beer/food through your company from a C&C, pay via company cheque, but pay back your own company through a Director's Loan A/C in your accounts.

That way you can seperated the business related stuff from the beer-related stuff that you purchased in a single transaction.

From what I hear anyway, it's cheaper to go up to Newry for provisions and vittles than use ROI C&Cs.

i didnt sit any accounting exam im just using experience as i shop in musgraves about once a month my accountant takes care of the rest.I know that VAT audits are a pain got done last year everything good so far and I know about taking it too far with expensing thing through the books and this has to be managed carefully so you dont overstep the mark