Am I the weirdo?!

zuutroy

Ok, so I work from 8 to 4:30 in a place I dont particularly like. I try to get out as close to 4:30 as possible, and am rarely there after 4:40. The thing is, when I'm leaving, almost no-one else is even looking like they're getting ready to go. I regularly get mails from people at 5:30 and 6 from people, all of whom are getting no extra pay for after 4:30.
Now I know lots of them aren't that fond on the place at all, and they STILL stay late. What I'm wondering is why on earth they spend any longer in the place than they have to. It just doesn't register with me at all why someone would want to stay late doing something they do purely for the money, for nothing extra. Is it them that are slightly nuts, or am I in the wrong for wanting to have my time to myself!?

**Timbuk2**

No, I don't think you are wrong. You get paid to work until 4:30, so why bother working any longer. If you get payed to work to 6, then work to 6

Is the job flexitime by any chance??

What exactly is the job, what does be done in it?? Maybe people are finishing off some work to lessen their workload for the next day??

zuutroy

**Timbuk2** wrote:

No, I don't think you are wrong. You get paid to work until 4:30, so why bother working any longer. If you get payed to work to 6, then work to 6

Is the job flexitime by any chance??

What exactly is the job, what does be done in it?? Maybe people are finishing off some work to lessen their workload for the next day??

No not flexitime. It's process engineering in a 24/7 factory. Fair enough if once in a while you're lightening the load for the next day, but this is every day. It's a real live to work place....not my cup of tea.

monkeyfudge

If I was in the middle of working on something, there is no way I'd be able to just stop dead and leave.

For instance I should have been finished work 45 minutes ago, but I stayed back to write this post.

Ph3n0m

sounds like a couple of places I worked in - you were paid x amount for x amount of hours - but it was also "expected" that you would put in extra time.

I used to do that, but I only ever stay late when I really, really have too. Other then that I am out the door at my expected finishing time (which is now )

zuutroy

monkeyfudge wrote:

If I was in the middle of working on something, there is no way I'd be able to just stop dead and leave.

For instance I should have been finished work 45 minutes ago, but I stayed back to write this post.

I'm working on a good nights sleep but I stop dead and leave it 7 am for them, so I think I should be granted the same liberty at 4:30!

**Timbuk2**

zuutroy wrote:

I'm working on a good nights sleep but I stop dead and leave it 7 am for them, so I think I should be granted the same liberty at 4:30!

LOL!!! What a great way to put it

ferdi

its all about brown-nosing
your workmates think the powers that be are taking note of all the unpaid hours they clock up but in reality your boss in laughing his ass off at them.

i never stay late - its a job for which you get paid, thats it.

zuutroy

I suppose I'd be less bitter about it if I even slightly enjoyed the job, but I've no time for it, or my robotic corporate drone coworkers; and its the kind of place where people look at their watch and tut if you're in at 8:05, so to hell with em!

fightin irish

I think the fact you leave at 4.40 is quite good on your part. I'm a manager in the motor trade (unfortunatley) and if any of the lads stayed 'till 4.40 or 5.40 it would be condsidered quite highly. But its seems bolox to stay until six or whatever those other guys are staying until. Especially if 4.30 is finish time.

zuutroy

refreshing to hear we haven't all turned into ladder climbing yank types. Soon I'll return to academia (hopefully), where I come and go as I please....Truly the good life!

DOLEMAN

When you're an old man, will you regret leaving at 4.30?

HELL NO!

Don't be an old man with regrets

colincarnate

ferdi wrote:

its all about brown-nosing
your workmates think the powers that be are taking note of all the unpaid hours they clock up but in reality your boss in laughing his ass off at them.

i never stay late - its a job for which you get paid, thats it.

That's exactly it.

Sleipnir

I was told that I can only claim for overtime if it's weekend work or something agreed in advance so now at 16:00 I leave no matter what's happening. Feck that, if they ain't payin', I ain't stayin'!

Litcagral

ferdi wrote:

its all about brown-nosing
your workmates think the powers that be are taking note of all the unpaid hours they clock up but in reality your boss in laughing his ass off at them.

i never stay late - its a job for which you get paid, thats it.

A good boss will not be impressed by staff staying on late. It sends out the wrong signals i.e. "I am inefficient and poor controller of my time and therefore I have to work later to make it up". A manager is probably more likely to be impressed if you leave early. Some managers have a policy of never promoting anyone who works late.

TempestSabre

Litcagral wrote:

A good boss will not be impressed by staff staying on late. It sends out the wrong signals i.e. "I am inefficient and poor controller of my time and therefore I have to work later to make it up". A manager is probably more likely to be impressed if you leave early. Some managers have a policy of never promoting anyone who works late.

I agree with that. Its ok to do it to help over a crisis but if its all the time its bad practise. Bad managers encourage it, unfortunately, or at least don't dis-encourage it. However in some industries its common place IT, Creative, Design industry etc. It doesn't make sense, burning the candle at both ends, for free. You're robbing yourself. In my experience where you see this happening you'll find a whole load of other badly managed processes. I've been in places where they all worked 8am-8/10pm 5-6 days a week all the time.

Eoin

Maybe it's just a case of some people being interested in their work, and don't mind putting in a couple of extra hours. Calling it brown nosing is a bit of a blanket statement.

And I agree with monkeyfudge, some people can't just drop what they're on as soon as the 5 O'Clock whistle blows, like in the Simpson's opening credits. If I'm in the middle of a piece of coding, I would prefer just to get it finished - if only for the reason it could take much longer to get back into the mindset the next morning.

TempestSabre

eoin_s wrote:

Maybe it's just a case of some people being interested in their work, and don't mind putting in a couple of extra hours. ....

Thats fair enough. But it creates an unfair enviroment for people who have other commitments outside of work. Especially if the people working for free get promotions and such.

Eoin

TempestSabre wrote:

Thats fair enough. But it creates an unfair enviroment for people who have other commitments outside of work. Especially if the people working for free get promotions and such.

But they are not working for "free" if it gives them the chance of promotions and such, they are working to improve their career prospects. I can certainly understand that people have other commitments, but that can't hold back people who choose to do a little extra at work.

sioda

I work for a crowd who wont pay overtime but still expect u to stay but finaly got pissed and said stuff yee so now i keep to the clock 8 hours in and out and if i clock off early one day is the only reason I'll stay late another.

PPL who stay late in a job they dont like need their heads read

azezil

TempestSabre wrote:

Thats fair enough. But it creates an unfair enviroment for people who have other commitments outside of work. Especially if the people working for free get promotions and such.

How is it unfair? if you're willing to put in the extra time and effort you're showing your commitment to the job so you deserve to be promoted imo.

Back to the topic, I work in IT, generally, about once a week I do some over time I don't claim for, usually because I've told someone I'll get a job done before morning, I don't have to do that (co-works encourage me not too infact) but I like to give people some kind of time scale for when I'm going to complete the work, and I do my best to stick to it, sometimes unexpected problems pop up, so if I'm not finished by 5:30, I stay late. Of course the reason I don't claim for it is, if there is no work to be done, I leave early

zuutroy

Some interesting cases there. It seems my place differs greatly from most in that it runs 24 hours. Rather than being favoured for staying late, you're looked down on for leaving on time. I'd estimate less than 10% are gone 30 mins after quitting time.
I understand people with project work wanting to get certain things sewn up before going home, but this is work that rolls from one day into the next and so on. In fact, people regularly continue to work from home, during evenings and weekends. I've seen mails from people at 9pm on weeknight, and 10 am on a Sunday morning. I'm sorry, but thats just bananas if you ask me.
It's all well and good breaking your back to get a promotion, but its ridiculous when simply meeting the requirements of your job aren't enough for them.

cargrouch

I work for a company where the clock-in system takes 15 mins off you if you're 1 minute past the quarter-hour, and even if you've done 45 hours monday to thursday to make a deadline for thursday afternoon you will be expected to show up on friday even though
a)it's a half-day anyway.
b)there is nothing productive to be gained from it as the next job you need to do won't be ready until next week.

(No paid overtime, contract includes extra effort to make deadlines, which I don't mind if I can take the friday off TBH)

rubadub

I worked in a place 9-5, used to leave about 5.15-5.30 most days (or later), and my most similar colleague would work till ALL hours, like 9pm!, he loved work and was foreign and had no real mates here. It made me look bad, and I even heard some managers commenting on me leaving "early"! even though I never once did, I always left later than I should! I remember one girl always saying "1/2 day again?" sort of joking, I would say "eh its 5.30? I am meant to finish at 5!?", really got to me since the bitch was always out on mondays and fridays with hangovers, and only worked late since she was in bits every morning.

I stay later now, mostly to finish work I didnt get done since I am typing crap like this on boards! I have no internet at home so if I did I would be doing the same anyways.

Stephen

I leave pretty much on the dot most days. The odd day i might get stuck 30-60 mins late doing something or other and I don't have a problem with that.
My employers don't have an attitude with people leaving when they're supposed to either. They don't pay any overtime for people who work late.
(working in IT here too)

Sleipnir

You really are niave if you think staying late will get you promoted sooner. I wouldn't care how late you stay; if you're crap or lazy, you're still crap or lazy after 5 o'clock.

Eoin

Sleipnir wrote:

You really are niave if you think staying late will get you promoted sooner. I wouldn't care how late you stay; if you're crap or lazy, you're still crap or lazy after 5 o'clock.

And it will be made even more obvious if you are putting in longer hours with the same poor results. Working more hours a week, and turning up for more hours a week are two very different things. I was referring to the former.

TempestSabre

azezil wrote:

How is it unfair? if you're willing to put in the extra time and effort you're showing your commitment to the job so you deserve to be promoted imo....

If I gave €300 a week into the dept budget in the interest of showing "commitment" would that be ok? Because by working for free thats basically what you are doing. Like others have said its a sign of poor time management. From both the manager and the employee. Generally if they do that, then usually such unprofessionalisim will be carried through to other areas of the business/work.

leeroybrown

Typically I will end up working some unpaid overtime most weeks. The main reason for this is that we short staff at the moment and any problems that occur tend to push the time over. I'm in a position where I am generally in control of my own time management and workload and I typically decide that it's better not to fall behind. For example I've worked a couple of very long days this week due to the failure of an important data backup system. I have been paid for this kind of overtime in the past where there has been a long term problem that required a lot of extra work.

I don't really have much of a problem doing it as I enjoy my job and it has a lot of flexibility whereby I can grab large chunks of time back when I need them. If I were in a strict 9 - 5 job without any flexibility I'd be a lot less likely to help my employer this way. Thankfully, we should have another body coming on board shortly which will smooth this out.

I agree with TempestSabre that quite often poor time management is to blame for those extra hours some people actually spend working. You could argue that what I do with my time constitutes doing this knowingly but when I weight things up...

TempestSabre

The usual flexibility is to work 2 weeks extra and get 2 days off in return.

the_syco

Whilst doing a job in SDCC, making a database, I used to work an extra hour every day. Dunno, but during the day I couldn't much done, as it was very warm in the office, but in the final hour, I'd turn all fans on full, and have a freezing productive hour:cool:

Also, cos it was flexi, after a few weeks, I was told:D to take a day off, or come in late, or something, to "work-off" the flexi time I'd built up. T'was a 3 month contract, and I got the project finished, so I was happy.

ntlbell

I used to work in a place where people seemed to be doing this alot, when I first started i thought how odd! then after a day or two I did a little investigating so after looking at some logs they weren't working at all, most of them were doing things they couldn't do during the day mailing "friends" reading boards etc while waiting for the traffic to die off.

So I asked a few of them what the story was and that's exactly what was up, just waiting for the traffic to die down.

TempestSabre

Wait till you work somewhere with a timeclock and time cards and proper flexitime. Where every minute you work up is counted. Every late is recorded and subtracts from your hours worked. Strict but very fair.

Eoin

TempestSabre wrote:

Wait till you work somewhere with a timeclock and time cards and proper flexitime. Where every minute you work up is counted. Every late is recorded and subtracts from your hours worked. Strict but very fair.

But according to most the people here, that will reward the people who turn up for longer, but apparently don't do any more work.

I think it is a bit cynical to assume that most people who work more hours are poor at managing their time or are brown nosing. In my department, we tend to work long hours but because we have an interest in our work. As a result, we complete projects very quickly.

zuutroy

Its getting to the stage now where I'm getting abuse for leaving on time! At lunch today someone mentioned that things were quiet and we might get out a bit early and some smart ass quips 'thats nothing new for you' at me. I've had it up to here with them now.

tk123

Are you packing your stuff up or something five mins before you leave etc? My newbie does that and it gives me the impression that he can't wait to get out of the place - tbh I don't really like it..Maybe just slip out when you're finished or tell them you're just going to the loo and they'll get bored of making comments..I've found as a girl if one of the guys asks me where i'm going(say they're looking for somebody to pick something up) and I tell them I'm just off to the loo they assume i'm off to do 'girls things' and nearly faint! :rolleyes:

Buttony

It happens in here all the time. I come in at 8 and when I go home at 5 the place is still nearly full. Its funny its always the ones that drift in about 10 who are make the smart remarks and watch everyone elses time. I doubt very much if most of them are still here at 7. I used to work late some times when I was busy but when I was 7mths pregnant I started doing my 8 hours and my boss actually had the cheek to tell me I needed to go the extra mile and work longer, he later retracted it but I have to say I am a lot less likely now to work the free hours. I know loads of people here just stay to look good. Others stay because of traffic. I don't mind the odd time having to work late but when it becomes expected it really annoys me. Company has recently brought in a policy where team leads are to ensure people are not working routinely extra hours.

minikin

http://www.kalashnikov-usa.com/
sounds like time you invested in one of these bad boys

zuutroy

tk123 wrote:

Are you packing your stuff up or something five mins before you leave etc? My newbie does that and it gives me the impression that he can't wait to get out of the place

I dont make any sign of movement til after 4:30....like I said earlier...I'm often here 10 mins later than that. I think it's perfectly acceptable is someone's eager to get out of the place....a lot of people like their lives outside work more than inside, so once they do a good job, and fit in well it shouldnt matter. I've worked jobs that I didnt mind before, and I always legged it on the dot and no one batted an eyelid.

I'm really on the verge of quitting and putting my PSV into use. The money's just so good though that I'm gonna hang on by my fingernails until I go postal altogether.
I really want to get back to scientific research, and when I'm stuck here, I never seem to have a clear head in applying for stuff, writing letters etc.
Do you think it's acceptable to leave an industry job I hate to focus my attention on getting a good research position that I really want, or will I just look like a quitter to potential universities/research institutes?

tk123

Nah I think it would like look like you're serious about the postition if you're willing to give up a good salary etc..

TempestSabre

eoin_s wrote:

...we tend to work long hours but because we have an interest in our work. As a result, we complete projects very quickly.

Projects should be completed to schedule.

isolde

does it depend on whether you view it as a career and if you are working for a company which you would like to continue working for in the long-term, or whether it is just a job that pays the rent?

where i work people generally work about an hour later each day. even then there's still loads to do that you end up having to leave til the next day. think we are a bit understaffed...

but if you are getting paid well to do something, what's wrong with making sure you do a good job of it? don't think it's to do with time management, i would guess that most people work late to keep on top of their workload.

Eoin

TempestSabre wrote:

Projects should be completed to schedule.

Did I say they weren't? No, I said that we complete them quickly - i.e. we get stuff done quickly. In case you missed the entire point of my post, it was that not all people who work longer hours are bad at time management, or are arse-licking. It may be simply out of an interest in the work we carry out.

TempestSabre

The point is a project plan shouldn't require working for free or outside normal working hours. Unless there are extraordinary circumstances. If it becomes normal then theres a problem.

Also you shouldn't be made to feel bad if you are doing your hours and doing your work. If you aren't happy with your staff doing normal hours, then change their contracts so they work hours for less money.

Sleepy

I tend to do quite a bit of unpaid overtime. Some things I just find easier to get stuck into when the office is quiet. Overtime isn't really 'expected' here but plenty of us do it anyway. I like my job, don't have a long commute (10 minute walk) and it does get taken into account in my performance appraisals that I put in the extra hours when they're required so I've no real problem with it...

whippet

the amount of blanket statements made here is crazy.

No two working enviorments are the same. Depending on the company 'going the extra mile' and getting the job done after hours might very well increase promotional ambitions, in others it might not.

Just because someone is staying late does not mean a thing unless there is other productivity evidence to back it up. For example we had a hero working here for a year or so .. emailling at 9pm, sundays and coming into the office on saturday's. Eventually it was discovered that she just wasn't capable of doing the work and ended up working all hours god gave her to try.

On the other hand I have always been available, stayed late when something had to be done ..etc ... even though I don't get paid over time I get to take half days when I want at short notice which don't come out of annual leave. It is called give and take. One thing that does get on my wick is 'clock watchers', who are starting to log out about 30mins before quitting time and spend the last half hour counting the seconds until the run out the door. You can be certian that every half day is taken out of their annual leave.

For career development, in my opinion you must show some degree of flexability and commitment to the cause of the organisation, however this flexability and commitment swings both ways and for an employee to feel that he/she should 'go that extra mile' the company must make it rewarding for them.

In the end of the day, you can work you 8 hours a day, not a minute more or not a minute less, take your pay packet and be happy with that. It is you right, but remember work is all about personalities and differences. Just don't be suprised if you are overlooked when promotion crops up or that little favour you need suddenly isn't granted.

TempestSabre

Different jobs different styles. Thats fair enough. Flexibilty is not the norm in my experience. However from a project managment point of view, its usually ("usually ") a bad thing. You burn up people, and its not sustainable over the long term.

elvis2002

I was in a job before where it was expected that I was be in at 9 and stay until after 6 everyday, monday to friday with unpaid overtime. I could also be away working from times like 9 to 11 at night including travelling around. Lets just say I wasnt happy with this situation and started coming in at 11 everyday since in the job nothing happens in the morning time ever. I do some work until 1 and then I used to take a 2 hour break in steven's green asleep, back to work at 3, leave at 5 and nobody even knew what was going on since I found the work so easy and they thought I was working like a guru there all day. ahah. ejits.

I totally dont understand people who work like mad men for hours upon hours and sometimes they go on about how the job is killing them. They work the overtime so regularly that management expects it and puts on more work. I worked with this girl in at the same time as above. She'd be in at 7 every morning and could work to 10. Although she'd spend time like most people (ie women) do in work achieving nothing but talking alot. She'd be in saturday, sunday all the time. She'd regularly go on about not having a life. I counted 70 hours worked one week. I happen to see her pay check one day. I thought she was on over a grand a week or something but then I was shocked to see just 670. I nearly collapsed laughing considering I was only doing half days work.

TempestSabre

Some jobs actually require you to work though...:D

Litcagral

isolde wrote:

does it depend on whether you view it as a career and if you are working for a company which you would like to continue working for in the long-term, or whether it is just a job that pays the rent?

where i work people generally work about an hour later each day. even then there's still loads to do that you end up having to leave til the next day. think we are a bit understaffed...

but if you are getting paid well to do something, what's wrong with making sure you do a good job of it? don't think it's to do with time management, i would guess that most people work late to keep on top of their workload.

If you think your workplace is understaffed you should do less work than normal, thereby highlighting the lack of staff. That's what I do. Then your employer will appreciate and respect you more. It is also an ideal time for bargaining. I would not work an extra minute without overtime pay or double time back (for unsanctioned overtime). My boss would be very suspicious of me if I said I was working late because I loved the job. He would prefer employees with a healthy work-life balance.

About ten years ago I was begged to work Christmas Day. After many refusals I said, half heartedly, that I would only come in on condition that I work a standard 8 hour day (instead of normal 13) and that I get £50 per hour. I thought I'd be told to get lost but they agreed. £50 per hour was a lot of money in the mid-1990s. Never miss an opportunity to sell yourself.

Naked Lepper

I work for symantec and four times a year - for the last two weeks of the quarter you are basicially forced to work insane hours... the last day of quarter is midnight finish... and thats starting your shift at eight am!!
And the days leading up to that are just as bad, 8-10pm for the last two weeks is normal.

And everyone says its illegal etc and they cannot force you to stay back. But they do! - btw this is finance and accounting depts,

I.T and Localisation etc etc obviously dont have the same pressure during quarter end.