whats the highest odds on 3 horses?

PTL

Hi ... say i got a feeling that i knew which horse was going to come in first second and third in the same race and knew the order etc....

What would be the highest odd's bet i could put on? I'm a complete beginner but was checking out trifecta and tricast bets and that isn't what im looking for cause that only pays out small odds.

I think you can do a accumulator on picking winners of different races but im looking for an accumulator on the same race picking first second and third.

Thanks very much to anyone who helps

Hobart

The only "1-2-3" order bet I have heard off is a trifecta or triactor and a tricast. Why do you believe that the bet would only payout small odds? Trifectas can produce huge payouts on occasion

Repli

Hi ... say i got a feeling that i knew which horse was going to come in first second and third in the same race and knew the order etc....

If you don't want to specify the order you can do a bet called a combination tricast (ctc) it is (3 x 2 x 1) = 6 times the price of a straight tricast though..

is_that_so

There is a thing called a reverse tricast which I used once for the National - one that got away . That sounds similar to what's been posted here and was expensive £12 for a £1 stake.

eirebhoy

PTL wrote:

What would be the highest odd's bet i could put on? I'm a complete beginner but was checking out trifecta and tricast bets and that isn't what im looking for cause that only pays out small odds.

It all depends on the race and odds of the individual horses. My mate had a measly €1 combination tricast (costs €6 as Repli explained) on the Grand national and he got almost €350 back. Considering the 2 joint favourites were in the the top 3 that doesn't seem low odds to me.

PTL

Well with a trifecta i thought you just got about 24/1 and that it doesnt matter what horses your picking and what odds they are ....

Ok so say i pick these

and i put 1 euro on this

first place - horse number 4 - odds 5/1
second place - horse number 2 - odds 10/1
third place - horse number 10 - odds 5/1

I picked what i thought would be nice round numbers

So you get 6 times the odds .... so costs 6euro to put on and what would be ROUGHLY the odds id get?

Im so LOST when it comes to betting and the websites use another language to explain odds

scargill

there is no magic forumula for working out what the odds of the tricast will be. the return is based on the TOTE payout for the tricast.

have a look at Mondays results from Windsor to see some examples.

In the case where no tricast amounts are shown - it means that there were no bets placed on that particular order of finishing, and as far as I know the likes of Paddy Power will revert your tricast bet to a forecast bet in this situation.

The money paid out for a tricast just depends on the betting pool available and the number of other punters that have chosen the same finishing order for their tricasts.

if I'm talking out my ass here someone can correct me but I think this is roughly right.

Crumbs

The Tote bet that scargill described is called a trifecta. A tricast is different in that it's calculated based on some big formula which mainly takes into account the starting prices of the horses among other factors. Eg. In your example, PTL, you'd need to give how many horses were in the race.

I don't know what this big formula is but anyway, the Tote bets (trifecta and exacta) generally have higher payouts on average than their bookmaking industry equivalents (the tricast and forecast).

PTL

Scargill you hit the nail on the head thats what i was after, examples thanks and thanks to everyone else ... ive alot to learn haha

OK so i picked one race below

1st 9 Wavertree Warrior (IRE) 14-1
2nd 10 First Show 11-2 CF
3rd 6 Blue Trojan (IRE) 25-1


Tote Win £16.10
Pl £5.60, £2.00, £9.80,
EX £128.10
SF £84.16
Tricast £1977.77
Winning Trainer N P Littmoden
Winning Jockey J Doyle
Distances nk, 1 3/4l
Unpl. Fav Prince Samos, Glad Big 11-2 co-fav
Runners 14 ran

So if i done a 1pound trifecta it would cost me 6 pound and i would of won 1977.77 pound once i picked exact first second third place ?

chump

Well

A trifecta/tricast is selecting who comes 1st, then who come 2nd, then who comes 3rd. And the bet is calculated by Tote rules.

6 pounds as you say is I'm guessing if you had each horse chosen comes in in either 1,2 or 3 it pays out

horses A, B and C, permutations below (3! factorial?)

A B C
A C B
B C A
B A C
C A B
C B A

Trifecta is a US term, and I believe bookies and with the Tote is just referred to as a tricast here and the UK...

Usually to get an idea of the odds you'll get (not a rule) you multiply out the odds, ie. below

15 * 5.5 * 25 = 2062.5 euro or thereabouts

beaker21

In the case where no tricast amounts are shown - it means that there were no bets placed on that particular order of finishing,


This just means that the race did not qualify as a tricast race ie.. A handicap race with 8 or more runners (occasionally with 7 when a late NR).

Healio

chump wrote:

Usually to get an idea of the odds you'll get (not a rule) you multiply out the odds, ie. below

15 * 5.5 * 25 = 2062.5 euro or thereabouts

Dont add the one because the dividend includes the stake :

14 * 5.5 * 25 = 1925

scargill

Crumbs wrote:

The Tote bet that scargill described is called a trifecta. A tricast is different in that it's calculated based on some big formula which mainly takes into account the starting prices of the horses among other factors. Eg. In your example, PTL, you'd need to give how many horses were in the race.

I don't know what this big formula is but anyway, the Tote bets (trifecta and exacta) generally have higher payouts on average than their bookmaking industry equivalents (the tricast and forecast).

is this the case ? are trifecta and tricast not the same thing ? (US calls then trifectas)

Got this from Paddy Power website...

TRICASTS:
a. Tricast bets, in which selections must finish first, second and third in the correct order in specified races are accepted in single bets only. Stakes for any tricast double, treble, etc accepted in error will be divided equally to cover each tricast race in tricast singles only.

b. Horse and Greyhound (BAGS/BEGS) Tricasts are only accepted on races for which a Computer Tricast dividend is declared. Any tricasts accepted for races which no Tricast dividend is declared will be settled as computerised straight forecasts on the selections nominated to finish first and second, with the selection for third place discounted.

c. Any tricast which contains an unnamed favourite, that selection will be settled as a non-runner.

d. Tricasts will be settled in accordance with the official computerized return.

e. Should a tricast include a non-runner, the total stake will be invested as a computerised straight forecast on the remaining two selections in the order selected. In the case of combination tricasts the total stake will be invested as a reversed straight forecast on the remaining two selections.

f. Should a tricast include two non-runners, the stake will be void.

Examples for e. and f. above
i). Full cover (24 Bets) selections A,B,C,D, with D as a nonrunner is settled in the following manner: Full cover Tricast A,B,C = 6 Bets Full cover Forecast (3 x stake unit) A,B,C = 18 bets
ii). The same bet but with C and D as non-runners is settled as following: Full cover Forecast (6 x stake unit) A,B = 12 bets plus 12 Single bets void.
g. If less than three horses finish in a tricast race, a dividend will be declared on those that finish.

scargill

And under US Racing Rules

1. Unlike horse racing in Ireland & UK there are no prices from the racetrack. All bets are settled to the US pari-mutual returns. PaddyPower will pay track odds upon results as declared by the US Host Track. Only bet types offered by the US Host Track on races will be accepted by PaddyPower.......[chopped]


5. Trifecta (can also be called Triacta): You must select the first, second, and third finishers in a race, in their exact order. To finish in any order it involves 6 bets.

trifecta sounds the same to me as a tricast ?

And there is no mention of a 'formula' for calculating returns ?

anyone here working in a bookies than give a definitive answer on this ?

scargill

PTL wrote:

Scargill you hit the nail on the head thats what i was after, examples thanks and thanks to everyone else ... ive alot to learn haha

OK so i picked one race below

1st 9 Wavertree Warrior (IRE) 14-1
2nd 10 First Show 11-2 CF
3rd 6 Blue Trojan (IRE) 25-1


Tote Win £16.10
Pl £5.60, £2.00, £9.80,
EX £128.10
SF £84.16
Tricast £1977.77
Winning Trainer N P Littmoden
Winning Jockey J Doyle
Distances nk, 1 3/4l
Unpl. Fav Prince Samos, Glad Big 11-2 co-fav
Runners 14 ran

So if i done a 1pound trifecta it would cost me 6 pound and i would of won 1977.77 pound once i picked exact first second third place ?

yes - your 6 pound/euro bet would have covered all of these finishing scenarios.... (ie for your three horses to finish 1st,2nd and 3rd in any order).
If you were super confident and you knew!! the finishing order would be 9-10-6 you could just do one bet that would cost you €1.


9-10-6
9-6-10
10-6-9
10-9-6
6-9-10
6-10-9

chump

talking nonsense, ignore

PTL

So if i was super confidant what would the one bet be called? where i KNOW which horse is going to be first,second,third? Single tricast? or what do i say?

Id say id stick with the normal tricast/trifecta but just to know what the other one is called aswell

PTL

and chump if you did it manually you would have to put on about 113 euro(1euro, 15euro and 97.5euro) tho and only get an extra 500 euro(and your stakes bak) ... am i correct?

chump

yea sorry,

I forgot they were all running in the same race

A tricast/trifecta is 1 line, guessing who comes 1st then 2nd then 3rd

If you were to pay for the 6lines tricast/trifecta, that is actually a multiple tricast/trifecta or combination tricast/trifecta

Crumbs

scargill wrote:

are trifecta and tricast not the same thing ? (US calls then trifectas)

For the UK, Tricast returns are calculated by a formula which relates to the SPs. Trifectas are calculated by the Tote. They're different bets and likewise for forecasts and exactas.

See here for the result of today's 2:50 at Folkestone with the various returns at the bottom. In a 14-horse race, the first three were 6/1, 7/1 and 9/1. Multiplying these gives 378 which is very close to the tricast return of 380. The trifecta happened to be much lower than this but as I said in my previous post, on average, the trifecta gives higher returns.

For Irish racing, it's the same story except for the Irish Tote calling it's trifecta bet a Trio.

In the US, the only equivalent bet is called a trifecta. (They don't have a cartel-like bookmaking industry there which adjusts a formula as it sees fit in order to extract the most from punters).

I'll happily stand corrected on any of this but I think it's right.

Makaveli

is_that_so wrote:

There is a thing called a reverse tricast which I used once for the National - one that got away . That sounds similar to what's been posted here and was expensive £12 for a £1 stake.

There's no such thing as a reverse tricast. A reverse tricast doesn't even make sense if you think about it. It's a combination tricast which is the 6 different tricast combinations from the three selections. More than likely you staked €2 returning a total stake of €12.

Crumbs I think you pretty much have it right.

kincsem

There are Trifectas on English racing. The bet is picking the first three in the correct finishing order (tri + perfect).

They don't have it on every race on the card. It is usually only on the big field, big betting races. Much of the betting into the pool is from off-course.

I was successful in picking (1) High Chaparral (2) Hawk-Wing (3) Moon Ballad at Epsom in the English Derby about four years ago. It paid about £490 for a £2 bet. I bet £24 to cover a few combinations.

Twice I had the 1, 2, 4 in the Oaks. On each occasion there was only a neck between 3rd and 4th. One of the dividends was about 500/1.

It can be a good value bet because in the Derby there was a £20,000 guaranteed trifecta but with only about 2/3 of that put in by punters you were getting free money if you were lucky.