a tough laydown for me....

Ollieboy · 10-04-2006 10:53am #1

In the Irish Open qualifier last Saturday the following hand played out, I was a bit disappoint with my play after, as I could have saved myself 15k in chips, which would have made it easier for me to win my ticket.

We were 7 handed and I was about 2nd in chips with the chip leader on about 80k and me on about 60k, I was the BB and he was the button. My general read on the player was of an average player with an aggressive style of play if he hit top pair, kicker was not an issue to this player.

This was his first and only attempt on my blind on the final table and in hindsight I think this call put most players off attacking my blinds afterwards. I’m sure others did raise after this, but I just can’t remember.

Blinds were 1k/2k and he raised on the button to 7k, sb fold who was also well stacked at this stage, I look down and see A10 suit.

My thinking was the following, 5k to call was cheap enough to see a flop, I also felt I could out play him on the flop if it fell nicely, I also want to get information on this player and I felt he was at-it here.

After deciding to call, I made up my mind to bet the flop, if an Ace came I would bet about 10/15 k, if a 10 high flop came I would check/raise, if two pair or flush/straight draw I was going to check and anything else was going to get a bet.

Flop came down A rag rag rainbow, I thought for a moment and decide to bet 10k to see were I was, he immediately push all-in. Now the stakes were very high with 3 tickets up for grabs, I had enough chips left to fold and my gutted want to call as I felt he had A rag or KK/QQ etc. After a long time I decide to fold, it was the correct move and I still end up getting my ticket.

So I’m wondering what other players think, should I’ve called, was I ahead and do you think my read on him was correct. If I called and he turns over AJ I would have been sick, so I felt happier to fold.

In hindsight a fold preflop was the best play also, or a check on the flop.

I asked him after what he had and he gave me the impression that he didn’t have that much and refused to tell me, I think he was playing the man and not the cards.

Ollie

califano · 10-04-2006 11:11am

You were behind i reckon.
If you thought he was at it why didnt you re-raise his opening raise?. He'd be more likely to fold then with a weaker or similar ace. Because if he has an ace and when you call and the ace flops then by what you say about him that he doesnt worry about his kicker he's more likely to outplay you when the ace hits?.

smurph · 10-04-2006 11:12am

Well done on the Ticket Ollie, really enjoyed the tournament, and certainly got the experience on how to get through a tournament shortstacked. Good to eventually meet you, and play at the same table, if only for two hands. Glad to see my chips (as small as they were) went to good use.

The hand before I got knocked out when the small Blind raised to 7k and i was on big blind, looked down and saw AK I was delighted, pushed all my chips in and then it was folded around table another player, who was shortstacked aswell. He took a while to decide whether to play or not. Did you hear the comment from the Northern guy (who wasn't even in the pot) "Well in my opinion its an automatic call). J*sus i could have killed him. The guy eventually folded, showing A 10. SB had AJ, flop comes 2 5 10 so the guy who folded would have won. The northern guy didn't think he had said anything wrong at all.

I feel a fold here was correct, in the end you won your ticket. Depends on who the player was, there was one or two who felt picture card of any description was good. I was on a major rob early in tournament, had not bought in yet and was down to 1,500 in chips. On the button with blinds 1 and 200 i went all in with Kd5d.(I know, but it was a serious rob). BB called me immediately with Q9 offsuit!!!!!!. I got a k so took the money, but could not believe his call. He had a bit of money, but not that much. Worked out okay for me in the end.

That particular player made the final table, and started it chip leader. two players to the left of the dealer. Guy with black teeshirt, he had massive amount of chips, when I left.

myflipflops · 10-04-2006 12:20pm

Ollie, you made the right fold in the situation with the A 10 against that guy because of the prize structure with the tickets. If it was a normal MTT and you were picking up 1k or something if you went out there, i prob would have called. you were unfortunate based on the fact that you hadnt played with him earlier in the tourney so you didnt have the info some of us did (dave o'c had an almost identical situation earlier in the tournament in his first hand at a new table against the same guy, he had to fold but it turned out dave was miles ahead).

Smurph, that wasnt the worst comment the northern guy made. After you were gone, there was a hand with 3 players. i dont remember the exact specifics but i think it was ollie, dave o'c and the monster chip leader. anyway, it was checked to the river and there was 2 pair on the board. ollie stuck out a bet and then the northern guy goes "i bet ace high is winning here". i thought it was a shocking comment to make and if i had have been in the hand, he would have gotten an earful. I was the young guy with glasses who was sitting directly to your right when there were 2 tables left by the way.

That guy ur talking about got the ticket in the end (despite risking his chip lead at one point by coming over the top of someone pre flop with 9 10 off and then showing the bluff). he spent the last 2 hours of the tournament complaing about having to play for so long saying stuff like "2 and a hlf hours is ebough for me". i didnt tell him that if he wants to cash next weekend, he'll have to play about 12 hours a day for 3 days.

califano · 10-04-2006 12:40pm

pwhite587 wrote:

northern guy goes "i bet ace high is winning here". i thought it was a shocking comment to make and if i had have been in the hand, he would have gotten an earful.

Why?

myflipflops · 10-04-2006 12:54pm

well, a bet had been made and 2 people still had to act in the hand. comments like that from people not in the hand are not on in my opinion, maybe its just me tho.

Ollieboy · 10-04-2006 12:59pm

smurph wrote:

Well done on the Ticket Ollie, really enjoyed the tournament, and certainly got the experience on how to get through a tournament shortstacked. Good to eventually meet you, and play at the same table, if only for two hands. Glad to see my chips (as small as they were) went to good use.

The hand before I got knocked out when the small Blind raised to 7k and i was on big blind, looked down and saw AK I was delighted, pushed all my chips in and then it was folded around table another player, who was shortstacked aswell. He took a while to decide whether to play or not. Did you hear the comment from the Northern guy (who wasn't even in the pot) "Well in my opinion its an automatic call). J*sus i could have killed him. The guy eventually folded, showing A 10. SB had AJ, flop comes 2 5 10 so the guy who folded would have won. The northern guy didn't think he had said anything wrong at all.

I feel a fold here was correct, in the end you won your ticket. Depends on who the player was, there was one or two who felt picture card of any description was good. I was on a major rob early in tournament, had not bought in yet and was down to 1,500 in chips. On the button with blinds 1 and 200 i went all in with Kd5d.(I know, but it was a serious rob). BB called me immediately with Q9 offsuit!!!!!!. I got a k so took the money, but could not believe his call. He had a bit of money, but not that much. Worked out okay for me in the end.

That particular player made the final table, and started it chip leader. two players to the left of the dealer. Guy with black teeshirt, he had massive amount of chips, when I left.

It was the player I was up against to Smurph, the big chip leader and any face cards was good enough type of player. I'm nearly sure I was ahead here as he more as less indicated after. I really want to bust him badly as his attitude was terrible.

The northern guy was a bit naive, so I would cut him a bit of slack, but I agree with your point on him talking. Ul anyway, if your QQ had held up against me, you were in the top 3.

Will you be play next week Smurph?

califano · 10-04-2006 12:59pm

pwhite587 wrote:

comments like that from people not in the hand are not on in my opinion.

I dont mind you having that opinion. Im just looking for the reason?. Unlike smurphs example the person not in the hand wasnt giving instruction to any player in the hand. So what harm in this comment?.

Ollieboy · 10-04-2006 1:01pm

pwhite587 wrote:

well, a bet had been made and 2 people still had to act in the hand. comments like that from people not in the hand are not on in my opinion, maybe its just me tho.

He should have said nothing, but he had a few drinks and it was a fun table with a lot of chat.

pwhites, you the player that came 4th?

if so, sorry about that. You were very unlucky and I got the run of the cards at the right time, but you played a great final table.

smurph · 10-04-2006 1:11pm

Ollieboy wrote:

It was the player I was up against to Smurph, the big chip leader and any face cards was good enough type of player. I'm nearly sure I was ahead here as he more as less indicated after. I really want to bust him badly as his attitude was terrible.

The northern guy was a bit naive, so I would cut him a bit of slack, but I agree with your point on him talking. Ul anyway, if your QQ had held up against me, you were in the top 3.

Will you be play next week Smurph?

Unfortunately my bank balance dictates that I am not playing in the Main event, playing in the €300 freezeout on the Sunday though, paid for it in the Merrion on Saturday night. Best of luck in it, might be watching you on Sky Sports on the Monday night, you never know.

Iceman78 · 10-04-2006 1:34pm

Just noticed that you paid for the €300 freezout already smurph. If i intend playing in this, should i pay beforehand or will i be ok if i just arrive out and pay on the day.

Good luck in the main event Ollie.

Would not be happy with your laydown normally but with the prize structure and chip stack it was probably a good laydown although im sure you were ahead at the time.

smurph · 10-04-2006 1:37pm

Iceman78 wrote:

Just noticed that you paid for the €300 freezout already smurph. If i intend playing in this, should i pay beforehand or will i be ok if i just arrive out and pay on the day.

Good luck in the main event Ollie.

Would not be happy with your laydown normally but with the prize structure and chip stack it was probably a good laydown although im sure you were ahead at the time.

It was dave (Big Dragon) who mentioned on Saturday night that he was going into the merrion to pay, so I duly followed him to the merrion. I would definitely prepay for it, mainly because the main event is sold out and all other events are re-buy tournaments. There could be alot of people who are knocked out of the Main Event who would play in this tournament.

Iceman78 · 10-04-2006 1:49pm

Sounds like i may be better off heading in to the merrion and prepaying for it this week then. Intention was just to show up on the day and pay for it.

Thanks for that smurph.

myflipflops · 10-04-2006 2:23pm

yeah, that was me ollie. don't apologise, its not like you outdrew me or anything. you played good poker and deserved your ticket. simple fact was, it came down to a 50/50 shot between us (with 4 left) and you were first to get ur money in with the best. i think we both played the exact same game on the final table. i decided that id wait til a few short stacks got knocked out, then start playing. it just didnt work out like that. we were 7 handed for 90 minutes (or at least it seemed that long). didnt help that i was card dead (as were you seemingly) which was sickening considering the amount of premium hands out there.

Samba · 10-04-2006 2:45pm

If you weren't willin to committ your stack on an A high flop, I don't think you should call Pre-flop, yes sometimes you need to see a flop to really get an idea where your Weak A kicker stands, in cash play this can be done in this tourney situation, just muck the cards PF let the others cut eachother up

WP Ollie and the best of luck...

Unfortunately Partying will not see me in the Irish Open this year, I managed to play one feeder... there is always next year....

Anyone selling shares?

My BR is unfortunately not as healthy as a 20x 3.2k entry fee

Ollieboy · 10-04-2006 3:01pm

You were a bit unlucky, that time I went all in against you I only had j6 suit, I think you said you had A2 os, at that stage of a game and with a A I would have called and taken the gamble.

Than on my BB I got a flat call by the chip leader and hit 2 pair and I push. If he had raised preflop I would have fold, so I got 30k in chips very easily.
pwhite587

On our final hand I was thinking of pushing again, but with me now up to 40k and you on 20k, I felt I could wait, so I flat called hoping you would do the sporty thing and let us both see a flop, I was getting 3-1 on my money before the flop, but nearly did fold as I didn’t want to add 16k to your stack, again one of the bigger stacks should have raised preflop. Than when I hit 2 pair again, I check, when I saw you going for your chips I couldn’t call fast enough and I felt sorry for you as you knew straight away you were gone.

I don’t think the deal would have been a good idea either.

Anyway, gl and look forward to playing with you again, it was a very exciting final table.

Ollie

a tough laydown for me....

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