Armed Police Force

connundrum

According to Fine Gael we're basically fooked as far as serious crime goes. I don't ever remember being very worried about gang crime and/or gun crime, as it was always something that happened somewhere else. But now, its becomming a bit more real, with serious shootings happening on a weekly basis now, affecting more and more innocent victims.

But what is the way to go? Do we arm the police force? Would that be a deterrent to gangs? I personally think that jail terms should be reviewed and enforced - none of this 'good behavious' joke. If you do the crime, you do the time!

But the question is would you support an armed police force? The Guards don't think they need them, but consider the situation of a routine traffic stop on the M50 - would you not be feeling slightly nervous if there were young lads kitted out with bullet proof vests in the back seat? Would you not feel a helluva lot more comfortable if you and your partner were armed?

Taken from www.garda.ie/angarda/faq.html

Do the Gardaí carry firearms?

Uniformed members of the Force do not carry firearms. This has been the situation since 1922 when the first Commissioner, Michael Staines, declared "The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people".
There are approximately 1,700 Detective Gardai around the country who carry firearms and always work in plain clothes. These members work closely with their uniformed colleagues and are available as armed backup whenever the need arises.

We have a very low level of armed crime in this country. As our Commissioner recently pointed out we do not live in a "gun culture" society. Self defence training forms part of our training at the Garda College. All officers on patrol carry handcuffs and a baton for use against violent persons.

But, there are obvious downsides to giving a mere mortal the power to take life at will - re: what happened in South Africa

Discuss

Stephen

Gun crime seems to be getting out of control here, the criminals already have better weapons and flak jackets than the gardaí do, so I think they should be armed - only after receiving extensive training though, not like the situation with squad car drivers where they can go ahead and drive because their super says so.

Kingp35

I think gun crime is getting out of hand in this country and something has to be done. Bt if im honest I think one of the main reasons that gun crime hasnt been much of a problem in this country in the past is because the gardaí dont carry guns. If every member of the gardaí was armed then I think this could cause escalation among gun crimes with more criminals feeling the need to arm themselves because the gardaí are armed. Im not sure what the answer is if im honest.

MrJoeSoap

Fighting fire with fire is not the solution. I voted no.

I can't possibly see how that would make things any better.

ferdi

the gardai have armed units for dealing with this already, the ordinary coppers dont need guns. one of my favorite things about ireland is that the police are unarmed.

Vegeta

Never ever ever ever. The Guards should never be armed. It is not a good idea.

We already have armed response units and the detectives so that's enough. Uniformed garda shouldn't be armed.

It'd be a waste of money anyway to equip and train them all to use guns as there isn't the need for them to be armed.

Jumpy

ferdi wrote:

the gardai have armed units for dealing with this already, the ordinary coppers dont need guns. one of my favorite things about ireland is that the police are unarmed.

And therefore NEVER enter bad areas. You will never see a squad car around Southill or see one parked outside a Halting Site.
Australian Police look fearsome, cuffs on the belt on one side, pistol glaringly obvious on the other.
For someone coming from a place like that, the Gardai are laughable..... STOP! Stop I say!! stop or I shall....wtf....ummm.....say STOP again!!

ferdi

and what there is no crime in australia?

kc66

There is crime happening on a small scale in every town in Ireland every day of the week. If the gardai were armed many of these burglars and other criminals would be getting guns. There is no major need for armed gardai.

Dave!

Jumpy wrote:

And therefore NEVER enter bad areas. You will never see a squad car around Southill or see one parked outside a Halting Site.
Australian Police look fearsome, cuffs on the belt on one side, pistol glaringly obvious on the other.
For someone coming from a place like that, the Gardai are laughable..... STOP! Stop I say!! stop or I shall....wtf....ummm.....say STOP again!!

The Aussie cops were wearing shorts during the riots in Sydney not long ago Shorts are the OPPOSITE of fearsome!

I don't think having guns would make the Gardaí be happier to go into a halting site, tbh. They're not gonna shoot everybody in the place, are they? Besides, the way this country works, the police would be afraid to use the gun for fear that some sort of civil rights group will f*ck them to bits.

I agree with Ferdi, unarmed Gardaí is one of the best things about this country.

We'd be better off imposing harsher sentences on these f*cks when they rob a car for the third time. There's people runnin around with 30 and 40 convictions, it's ridiculous! I think after the 20th offense, you can safely assume that they're not on the road to recovery :rolleyes:, and lock them up so that the rest of us can get on with our lives.

EDIT:
If the Gardaí are given guns, then more criminals will, and we'll end up with gun-fights between Garda and criminal.

drdre

yes there should be an armed force in ireland as gun crime is gone out of control.hopefully it will get better as now dublin is really unsafe.

legologic

The Garda Síochána will succeed, not by force of arms or numbers,
but by their moral authority as servants of the people."
Commissioner Michael Staines (1885-1955),
First Commissioner of An Garda Síochána.

Tho' moral authority may sometimes be a virtue that eludes a minority of Gardai I'm glad they are unarmed. If the police are armed it nearly becomes a requirement to have a gun to commit a crime! They are called the Garda Siochana, guardians of the peace. A gun is not an implement of peace. It's purpose is to harm, kill and create authority through fear.

Joeface

Its not really possible to arm rank and file gardai , if u arm them you have to arm us. might be a silly point but im right. Guns are not the answer to these violent crimes any way . Proper prisions ie Forced labour , chain gangs . Break them for breakin the law , remove most of there rights for breakin the law , Stop the supended sentance crap , Bring in a strike rule , ie A record of maybe 5 or 10 voilent crimes , 5 years without parole , None of this day realase crap . far better solution that giving the gardai guns .

ferdi

absolutly correct - have proper punishment for crimes and there is no need for armed police/
i always feel uncomfortable in other countries when i'm near a cop, i know there not going to shoot me, i just dont like it.

Joeface

Thank you ferdi

And also all do gooders should be jailed ....lol, jsut for proposing that prisonerss have rights .....they broke the law they lose there rights, server there time get there rights back.

DOLEMAN

If the guards get guns, the criminals will just upgrade to assault rifles and become more "psycho".

Also, from my experience with the guards (and I'm a very law abiding person), they're total scumbags. I would not want them walking around with guns.

I would like to add as well that tougher sentences or tougher police is the wrong mentality. Education, proper facilities, parenting courses etc. should be used instead to stop the next generation of little skangers becomming criminals...

Ozzy

In this day and age, it's evident that the Gardai have pretty much lost most whatever 'moral authority' they previously had. I reckon it's a more dangerous job than ever.
Although having said that, I still think arming regular Gardai would be a bad idea, it's not necessary. We've got Special Branch and I think that's enough. They should all be given vests though.

What's necessary here is a government with the ability to enforce a real 'zero tolerance' policy (not the destitute soundbites flaunted by FF or any of the other clowns at election time). Zero tolerance toward violent, unprovoked crime. Zero tolerance toward real crimes. Not bull**** like penalty points for driving over white lines.

Doleman wrote:

I would like to add as well that tougher sentences or tougher police is the wrong mentality. Education, proper facilities, parenting courses etc. should be used instead to stop the next generation of little skangers becomming criminals...

You're right to an extent, but surely having both a tougher police force and tougher sentencing whilst promoting education and discipline wouldn't do any harm would it? Why can't we have both?
Probably because the system is flawed. Probably because FF govern, and probably because whoever takes their place right now will most likely do no better!

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Surely the fact that Gardai aren't armed, doesn't encourage criminals to commit serious crimes.

The issue of arming Gardai should only arise if, in stopping a serious crime, where the Gardai turned up at the scene and were shot at and couldn't resond effectively.

It's not like they're preventing the serious crimes happening by ariving on the scene,or catching those at the scene, therefore guns won't make a difference to the criminals being caught at the scene.

They should concentrate on prevention, and detering criminal through a clinically effective justice system that appropraitely punishes those who commit serious crimes.

Cake Fiend

drdre wrote:

yes there should be an armed force in ireland as gun crime is gone out of control

I don't see how arming gardaí is going to bring down gun crime.

I think resources should be spent, where possible, on manpower - the police know who the scumbags are, but they don't have the people to keep a proper eye on them.

netwhizkid

Arming the Gardai will increase crime as they kill more Innocent people like John Carty from Longford. Guards and Guns = trouble

Manic Moran

I voted the maybe.

Ireland isn't, I don't think, to the level that the Gards need to be routinely armed yet, but it's getting there. The foreign immigration isn't helping.

What was the last Gard to be killed, stabbed by a member of a Chinese gang in Dublin, if I recall? The days of the criminal saying 'It's a fair cop, guv', and going quietly are on the way out. The rules are changing, and the Gardai need to change with it. When you have people coming in from cultures where the police are armed, are occasionally brutal, and it is deemed 'fair play' to shoot at police and have them shoot back, why should they suddenly decide to stop shooting at police just because Ireland's a nice quiet country?

I've seen people say they get nervous when they go up to a Continental or American policeman with a sidearm. Stupid. It's not about to jump out of its holster and bite you, it's a tool. And I'm all in favour of giving the police whatever tools it decides it needs to carry out its job safely. Better to have it and never need it than to need it and not have it. Most American cops never draw their sidearm in their whole career. TV notwithstanding.

NTM

the_syco

kc66 wrote:

There is crime happening on a small scale in every town in Ireland every day of the week. If the gardai were armed many of these burglars and other criminals would be getting guns. There is no major need for armed gardai.

This used to be the arguement, but now, every criminal has a gun. Petrol stations, post office's... all being robbed by people with guns.

Saying that, some of the Gardai are scum, but its nearly because they don't have any real power to tackle the problem.

Maybe a swat style unit, where groups of Gardai are armed, but not every cop has a gun.

Odysseus

I voted no. When I'm in Europe I have no problem with armed cops, indeed I feel somewhat safe. While I have a lot of respect for the Gardai I would not trust them with firearms.

Boggle

Unfortunately times are changing and they'll need to be equipped to deal with it. An armed man will not let you arrest him if he's guilty - he'll shoot the arresting officer instead. Given that I've an ex in the gardai - I don't want this to start happening before we realise it's a problem. That stage will already be too late for someone...

Eru

The point of arming all Gardai is not too prevent armed crime but too allow those that repond to the calls too be able to handle it.

In the past year 4 guards stabbed and 1 shot. Its also much more common for guns and weapons too be used against the Gardai than people realise. remember, the government dont want to advertise that the Gardai are terrible under equiped and getting assaulted, knifed and shot at. That would not make for good voting.

I also see people quoting the commiss. PLease try to remember that those comments are taken out of a full speech. The speech itself continues on "However if even one is shot dead I will arm them too the teeth"

The commissioners through the ages have looked for routine arming 3 times in history with the support of the Gardai. Now you have mixed feelings within the ranks. Do I want too be armed? Im not pushed either way, if we arm we arm but I want better equipment and more armed officers in general. Seriously, show me 1 country in the world with less equipment than us. The bloody NYPD offered to donate equipment for f*ck sake.

Also, the websites info is terrible outdated, its closer too 1100 armed officers now.

Manic Moran

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

I also see people quoting the commiss. PLease try to remember that those comments are taken out of a full speech. The speech itself continues on "However if even one is shot dead I will arm them too the teeth"

Interesting. I'll file that one away for later use.

The bloody NYPD offered to donate equipment for f*ck sake.

You're kidding. What did they offer?

NTM

gilroyb

Offered Stab Vests, as a charity gesture. They couldn't believe Ireland didnt have them

junkyard

If they were properly trained I think more guards should be armed but not all of them. I think I read on one of the papers today that the guards will be armed with pepper spray which is no harm to control some of the scumbags you see fighting after pubs close. As someone said in an earlier post, prisons should be work camps not holiday camps, prisoners rights should go out the window when they are doing time. They should also have to compensate the people they have harmed or robbed from be it deduct money from their social welfare or if they have jobs take some of their wages every week. The idea of some scumbag getting eighteen months for nearly kicking someone to death is just not on.

nobodythere

I don't think that gardai having guns is the big issue here. Most of the armed criminals here have been up in court plenty of times and just spit out with a small fine. It's a joke. They're not gonna take it seriously if they can go all the way through the legal system and come out the other end with a slap on the wrist.

Increase minimum sentences to fsck because judges are too lenient, whether that's because they're auld biddy's who want to give them a (twenty) second chance or they're afraid of their own safety or what. It must be disheartening to the gardai who spend all the effort arresting them to see that happen, make it not worth it's while.

If you're found with a firearm, you're a scumbag fullstop, and you deserve to be hung upside down by your testicles and left to rot. You can't just get away with a year or two in jail for that sort of ****.

Renegade_Archer

I have said it before, and I will say it again - I want to see scumbags lined up in orange jumpsuits breaking rocks - they took away from society, now they get to give back

dbnavan

I have no hesistation in saying Gardai should be armed, the gardai are a push over to these criminals at the moment, I lived in america for a time and I tell ye the cops over there take no sh1t.

What use is a gardai arriving at a scene of an armed robbery with a baton? Its time for the justice system of this country to get real. And for those who say John Carty was innocent and more people like him will die...."

At the first attempt he(the garda) knocked on the door of the house and asked if John was okay. He said that Mr Carthy replied from inside the house, "F**k off, or I will blow your head off."

Next thing John Carthy runs from the house pointing a gun, what use is a baton then? I am not saying they should kill him, but definatly take him down.

Wacker

grasshopa wrote:

I don't think that gardai having guns is the big issue here. Most of the armed criminals here have been up in court plenty of times and just spit out with a small fine. It's a joke. They're not gonna take it seriously if they can go all the way through the legal system and come out the other end with a slap on the wrist.

Increase minimum sentences to fsck because judges are too lenient, whether that's because they're auld biddy's who want to give them a (twenty) second chance or they're afraid of their own safety or what. It must be disheartening to the gardai who spend all the effort arresting them to see that happen, make it not worth it's while.

If you're found with a firearm, you're a scumbag fullstop, and you deserve to be hung upside down by your testicles and left to rot. You can't just get away with a year or two in jail for that sort of ****.

In my opinion, the real reason that judges are too lenient is that they understand one simple fact; every day that a prisoner uses a cell is a day that another prisoner cannot be using that same cell. There is no point in handing out tough minimum sentences if this means that the perpetrators of the really big crimes will have their sentences drastically cut so as to free up cells for guys doing minimum terms. The real solution is not minimum terms, but more prisons! That way judges could really use their own discretion and take all circumstances into account. Obviously, they could then hand down a tough sentence without knowing that it would reduce the term of a really bad guy.

Of course, prisons and guards have to be paid for, and every cent spent on a jail is a cent not spent on getting someone off a trolley in the A & E. Not easy, is it?

Dave!

dbnavan wrote:

What use is a gardai arriving at a scene of an armed robbery with a baton?

There are armed units for responding to those kind of incidents, and they evidentally work well enough.

dbnavan

DaveMcG wrote:

There are armed units for responding to those kind of incidents, and they evidentally work well enough.

And they have these in every major town?

Dave!

Are there regular armed robberies in every major town where the incident lasts long enough for any Garda to even be aware of it?

And regardless, that would mean that more armed response units are necessary; not that every Garda on the street should be handed a gun.

I like not living in a country where cops have one hand on their gun as they're writing you a ticket (or giving you penalty points, heh heh).

It's only a matter of time though, as was said earlier, as soon as Gardaí start getting shot doing routine things, there'll be no choice. We can only have an unarmed force for so long, looks like the time's up soon enough.

Wertz

dbnavan wrote:

And for those who say John Carty was innocent and more people like him will die...."


Next thing John Carthy runs from the house pointing a gun, what use is a baton then? I am not saying they should kill him, but definatly take him down.

The problem in the Carthy case was the armed gardaí at the scene weren't trained for shoot to wound or shoot to disarm; they are only trained for a shoot to kill response...that's what comes of them being geared up to deal with terrorist situations.

Part of me wants armed gardaí, the other part that's seen the bad side of the force says no f*cking way.
I'll say this; the standard uniform officer needs more than what he/she has now, but a gun isn't it...the force needs more armed officers than what they currently have, they need to have eliable back up for the situations that arise in relation to gun crime. 1700 armed officers for the whole country? Considering many of them are tasked with escorting cash in transit, that's just not enough for day to day stuff.

To those talking about longer jail terms, actual sentences being served and a zero tolerance approach, I agree....problem here is lack of jail space and outdated jails. But yet when moves are made to try and build anew, we get the cries of the NIMBYs...
The justice system too needs looked at; many judges are frighteningly out of touch with the real world...far too much reliance on the probabtion service in crimes where a jail term is the only real deterrent.
We also have a huge problem with juveille crime...personally I think the age of criminal responsibility needs to be lowered...kids grow up a lot faster these days, and they know exactly what thye can get away with and are fully aware of the consequences of what they do...it's all very well saying education, better pareting, more social outlets, but we need a carrot AND a stick.

The comment on foreigners is valid too...we've had our fairshare of euro-criminals coming here for "work". They seem to be doing pretty well...it's only a matter of time before we see more organised crime in that regard, unless we move to nip it in the bud...how many of our force can speak even basic Polish, Latvian, whatever? We're ill equipped to deal with a whole multitude of problems further down the line.

Last thing on the gardaí...they face a tough task with small numbers...why is it then they're faced with such outdated practices of having to do their own paperwork, many times in their own hadwriting...take the office work out of the hands of trained officers and give them some back up in the offices...put them back out on the road/street/town where they can be most effective.

blu_sonic

imo it will encourage smaller crims to start carrying a firearm to "defend" themselves and imo it would spiral into a situation like the states where some petty crim like a handbag snatcher will be carrying

Pazaz 21

Kingp35 wrote:

I think gun crime is getting out of hand in this country and something has to be done. Bt if im honest I think one of the main reasons that gun crime hasnt been much of a problem in this country in the past is because the gardaí dont carry guns. If every member of the gardaí was armed then I think this could cause escalation among gun crimes with more criminals feeling the need to arm themselves because the gardaí are armed. Im not sure what the answer is if im honest.

Couldn't have said it better myself, well i could, i just couln't be bothered

Eru

DaveMcG wrote:

I like not living in a country where cops have one hand on their gun as they're writing you a ticket (or giving you penalty points, heh heh).

Yeah and so do criminals!
Lets be honmest here, does anyone actually doubt that criminal gangs have guns? An armed robbery isnt an armed robbery without a weapons. therefore the gun is there regardless of what the Gardai have. Same with murder and many violent crimes, the guns exist already.

blu_sonic wrote:

imo it will encourage smaller crims to start carrying a firearm to "defend" themselves and imo it would spiral into a situation like the states where some petty crim like a handbag snatcher will be carrying

Why would a small time criminal feel the need to defend himself against an armed Garda? Surely if he is worried about being shot he should A, not commit crime or B, put his hands in the air and surrender?

And your thinking is not mirrored in the vast amount of countries that have armed police.

America has armed everyone, thats different.

hullaballoo

Surely tighter border controls should be implemented before anything else happens. I mean, we're an island, so we have a major advantage in terms of policing what comes onto our territory. Police funding should be increased, and that's pretty much the long and the short of it. I'm not sure about arming the rank and file Gardaí, maybe just special forces.

Wertz

blu_sonic wrote:

imo it will encourage smaller crims to start carrying a firearm to "defend" themselves and imo it would spiral into a situation like the states where some petty crim like a handbag snatcher will be carrying

Yes but in America handguns are easily and readily available...the tabloids would have you believe it's liek that here too, but not so much...most weaponry is either ex-paramilitary held or black market import from E Eurpoe.

Most petty criminals here are already carrying a knife and are far more likely to use that than they would a gun, if they had one. It's only the big boys and the drug dealers with ready access to firearms...and they're who An Garda need to get to grips with...

Sangre

Problem with the media is they make Ireland seem a lot more dangerous than it is.
People read a story in the paper and suddenly Ireland is in chaos. I would not like my gaurds to be armed to the teeth here.
People make mistakes, so lets try and not make those mistakes happen with guns.

I want nothing to do with American police force or justice system. A total joke.

Manic Moran

Wertz wrote:

The problem in the Carthy case was the armed gardaí at the scene weren't trained for shoot to wound or shoot to disarm; they are only trained for a shoot to kill response...that's what comes of them being geared up to deal with terrorist situations.

I'm curious... What police forces in the world are trained to shoot to disarm or to wound? Firearms are lethal weapons. If you're shooting, you've got no problem with killing being the result. In that case, you're best off making damned sure your shot hits, as a miss will only make matters worse.

Maybe Tasers as a compromise? They've got about a twenty foot range and are not usually lethal.

NTM

Wertz

Yeah but the gardaí in the case in question were armed with SMGs, uzis I think. Their only sniper apparently wasn't in the correct position to make a wounding shot (too close or with bystanders in the field of fire)...it's pretty tough to do anything other than seriously wound or kill with an SMG, since most users are trained to go for centre mass.

the_syco

junkyard wrote:

I think I read on one of the papers today that the guards will be armed with pepper spray which is no harm to control some of the scumbags you see fighting after pubs close.

Meh. They should get mace.

Sangre wrote:

I want nothing to do with American police force or justice system. A total joke.

Compare the US with Switzerland (I think). Both have lots of guns, but there's less gun crime in Switzerland, due to more education.

That and every man is given a gun @ the age of 16 (or is it 12 or 18?), shown how to use it... and hey, deja-vu. Same topic, same answer, maybe a year or so ago. Weird.

dbnavan

Sangre wrote:

Problem with the media is they make Ireland seem a lot more dangerous than it is.
People read a story in the paper and suddenly Ireland is in chaos. I would not like my gaurds to be armed to the teeth here.
People make mistakes, so lets try and not make those mistakes happen with guns.

I want nothing to do with American police force or justice system. A total joke.

Dublin is a small city is reletive terms to most capital cities in the world, a shooting every couple of nights in it is a dangerous problem as I see it, my grandfather said years ago he could see dublin turning in to a mini chicago, and it has bypassed it at this stage!!

I have lived in america for a while and you get away with nothing with cops over there, no such thing as a nod and a wink over there, criminals over here are running rings around the gardai, half of them know their rights better then the boys in blue do.

I saw a guy last week and this is no joke.....he was in bus aras talking to another bloke, he had just got out of the joy less then a hour, he was arranging for lads to come to bus aras to 'give him some gear' which they openly did, he told them he would back up in a few days when he 'accquired himself some wheels', doubt he was talking about buying it, since he asked them for money for a bus ticket, he then proceeds to tell them how easy it is to get gear into the joy, the guy was obviously thick as he wasnt even keepin his voice down, the lads asked him to keep his voice down serverle times.

I know this is a bit off topic but just goes to prove what a soft touch the justice system is here, this guy was 3 years in the joy, and an hour out and and planning robbing a car, in the national bus station, across the road Store St Garda station, infact the girl who met him to give him the gear met him outside the station!!

Unpossible

Can we at least give the gardai body armour ? Or am I going to get the reply "giving them body armour will result in criminals using armour piercing bullets and better guns".

I believe the gardai should be armed, the finnish ploice are armed, its easier for an everyday person to get their hands on a rifle here*, yet I havent seen or heard of any armed crimes over here (Im not saying it never happens, there just isnt regular shoot-outs on the street which people here are suggesting would happen in this scenario).

We also have a huge problem with juveille crime...personally I think the age of criminal responsibility needs to be lowered...kids grow up a lot faster these days

No kids do stupid things and can be easily led, putting them in a remand centre & trying to re-educate them would be better imo.

should be work camps not holiday camps, prisoners rights should go out the window when they are doing time.

I agree, we could use a strike system, 5 convictions and your put away for several years.

Of course, prisons and guards have to be paid for, and every cent spent on a jail is a cent not spent on getting someone off a trolley in the A & E. Not easy, is it?

It depends on how the government goes about it, if they make a hames of it (like they do with so many other things) then we will see them p**sing away millions (if not billions) of euro and we still wont get any new prisons (we might get a nice shiny report saying that we need prisons though).
Also how many of the people are in A&E because of assault or violent crime?

*edit: oops have to make it clear Im talking about here in finland

Manic Moran

Sangre wrote:

Problem with the media is they make Ireland seem a lot more dangerous than it is.

Problem with the media is that they make the US seem a lot more dangerous than it is as well.

NTM

Sangre

Manic Moran wrote:

Problem with the media is that they make the US seem a lot more dangerous than it is as well.

NTM

I didn't mean to imply the US was dangerous. Just averting to the fact that 2 million people are in jail atm in America and that number is rapidly rising. If you're a black male you have a 1 in 4 chance of being in jail at some point in your life. (correct if me I'm wrong thats off my memory but its a pretty shocking number whatever it is)

Dublin is a small city is reletive terms to most capital cities in the world, a shooting every couple of nights in it is a dangerous problem as I see it

are you for real? every couple of nights a shooting?

Undercoverguy

I voted yes with a capital Y. I myself have been involved in a shocking 5 robberies 3 of which included firearms, when the gards arrive it quickly becomes a game of:

Scumbag with Gun -vs - Gard with Batton

Guess who'll win!?!

Long story short Dublin is getting bigger with the gards streched to it's limits, sure gards can sometimes get to the seen of a shootout fairly quickly....

But its getting the armed ones there even faster thats soon going to become the biggest issue....

Manic Moran

As an aside from the 'if the cops have guns, the bad guys will all have them as well', how's the crime life in Japan? The country has one of the strongest gun control cultures, yet the police are armed.

NTM