Give a kid a chance ?

careca

Fitz cash game last Sat night. This young bloke, prob student, was playing and although a good enough player, he was having a bad night. At one stage he went to pick up his cards from the table and dropped one on the floor, whereby he was told that his hand was mucked (new one to me but fair enough I suppose). He later said he had the nuts.

anyway I'd say he was down about 100 and had about 130 left. I picked up KK in early position and raised the pot (lets say 7). Couple of callers including young player. Flop J high rags. I pet pot (about 25), young guy only caller. Turn rag, I bet about 65 or something like that. Young guy calls. River another rag and I'm 99% certain I'm ahead and that he has a J. He has about 30/40 left and I go to pick up my chips to bet when he says "go on give us a free check ?". Now that was the 1% I was missing to ensure I was ahead. What do you do ?

El Stuntman

careca wrote:

Fitz cash game last Sat night. This young bloke, prob student, was playing and although a good enough player, he was having a bad night. At one stage he went to pick up his cards from the table and dropped one on the floor, whereby he was told that his hand was mucked (new one to me but fair enough I suppose). He later said he had the nuts.

anyway I'd say he was down about 100 and had about 130 left. I picked up KK in early position and raised the pot (lets say 7). Couple of callers including young player. Flop J high rags. I pet pot (about 25), young guy only caller. Turn rag, I bet about 65 or something like that. Young guy calls. River another rag and I'm 99% certain I'm ahead and that he has a J. He has about 30/40 left and I go to pick up my chips to bet when he says "go on give us a free check ?". Now that was the 1% I was missing to ensure I was ahead. What do you do ?

Bet.

But maybe have a word with him afterwards?

ianmc38

An older friend of mine regularly checks down big pots on the river when he has the stone cold nuts against young players. Dont know why. He feels its more of a lesson than taking their last 50 quid. I've sen him do it with a straight flush and a poker.

Culchie

I'd bet.

If your conscience gets the better of you, you can always buy him a beer afterwards, even return that last bet if he calls.

Best lessons in life, the ones you remember you normally have to pay for, and hurt a little.

smurph

careca wrote:

Fitz cash game last Sat night. This young bloke, prob student, was playing and although a good enough player, he was having a bad night. At one stage he went to pick up his cards from the table and dropped one on the floor, whereby he was told that his hand was mucked (new one to me but fair enough I suppose). He later said he had the nuts.

anyway I'd say he was down about 100 and had about 130 left. I picked up KK in early position and raised the pot (lets say 7). Couple of callers including young player. Flop J high rags. I pet pot (about 25), young guy only caller. Turn rag, I bet about 65 or something like that. Young guy calls. River another rag and I'm 99% certain I'm ahead and that he has a J. He has about 30/40 left and I go to pick up my chips to bet when he says "go on give us a free check ?". Now that was the 1% I was missing to ensure I was ahead. What do you do ?

I would check to him, but if he did not re-buy and was heading off, get up and have a little chat in his ear. Other people would bet and then lecture him after taking all his money. We have all been in the position where the cards are a disaster and have been cleaned out. They say the Bad nights make the good nights better.

Ste05

If you don't bet here, give up Poker. This isn't tiddly winks. Make your big hands pay, and minimises the losses on your bad ones.

He knows he's beaten and so should fold, if he calls then there's nothing to feel bad about, he's the one that gave away his money, you didn't steal it from him.

califano

Am i missing something?. Whats this "have a word with him/lecture after" about?. Do you not just play the hand out then play the next?. Why do you think this young guy needs talking too afterwards?. for saying "go on give us a free check?". Is this considered bad form?.
I'd just see it as speechplay.

Ste05

rounders123 wrote:

Am i missing something?. Whats this "have a word with him/lecture after" about?. Do you not just play the hand out then play the next?. Why do you think this young guy needs talking too afterwards?. for saying "go on give us a free check?". Is this considered bad form?.
I'd just see it as speechplay.

Ye I was wondering the same thing myself, what is there to discuss with him.

EDIT: Ahhhh, just saw Bohsman's reply...

Also smurph, if you check to him why would you expect him to re-load, checking to him, I would have thought, was the only way of ensuring he doesn't re-load, especially with all these lovely people at the table, they might even feel more sorry for him and give him more money??

bohsman

rounders123 wrote:

Am i missing something?. Whats this "have a word with him/lecture after" about?. Do you not just play the hand out then play the next?. Why do you think this young guy needs talking too afterwards?. for saying "go on give us a free check?". Is this considered bad form?.
I'd just see it as speechplay.

Hes about to be told that he shouldnt be playing if he cant afford it etc

califano

bohsman wrote:

Hes about to be told that he shouldnt be playing if he cant afford it etc

Oh ffs:D lol

careca

Maybe I should give up so. I checked to him, showed my kings and he mucked. The thing that annoyed me was I half expected him to get up with his 30/40 and go home but he proceeded to lose it over the next couple hands :rolleyes:

Still not sure though if I was right or wrong. I suppose if he got a couple of double ups and proceeded to clean me out I'd be fairly sick going home.

Running Bing

I dont believe this. Im a young guy who wouldnt have a lot of spare scratch but that is not how you play poker. Theres not even a question as to what to do , bet without a shadow of a doubt. Send him home to mammy with nothing but his bus pass in his pocket:D

Unless its me at the table then its ok to check:)

5starpool

You should have asked him if he was going to call a bet anyhow before checking at least.

careca

5starpool wrote:

You should have asked him if he was going to call a bet anyhow before checking at least.

I'm not sure what benefit that would have had

5starpool

Well some people would tell you. Obviously after this I would bet anyhow. If you wanted to be nice, knowing he wouldn't call a bet then you could check it.

careca

5starpool wrote:

Well some people would tell you. Obviously after this I would bet anyhow. If you wanted to be nice, knowing he wouldn't call a bet then you could check it.

Or alternatively if he said no, then I could bet it

smurph

careca wrote:

Maybe I should give up so. I checked to him, showed my kings and he mucked. The thing that annoyed me was I half expected him to get up with his 30/40 and go home but he proceeded to lose it over the next couple hands :rolleyes:

Still not sure though if I was right or wrong. I suppose if he got a couple of double ups and proceeded to clean me out I'd be fairly sick going home.

I probably did not phrase myself well. I did not mean that the person who bet into him would lecture him. I have noticed at alot of tables, though not as much at the Fitzwilliam that new players get advise thrown to them from all angles. It can be a bit overpowering. Too many chiefs, not enough indians. God i remember the first time I went into a casino "many many moons ago" and i won a pot and stood up and dragged the chips in. After a table full of laughter, Maggie from Merrion explained the line rule, do not touch chips, dealer will do that. If there is someone who is getting lambasted at the table, I dont put them in for all their money, thats just me. I think you did right.

careca

smurph wrote:

I probably did not phrase myself well. I did not mean that the person who bet into him would lecture him. I have noticed at alot of tables, though not as much at the Fitzwilliam that new players get advise thrown to them from all angles. It can be a bit overpowering. Too many chiefs, not enough indians. God i remember the first time I went into a casino "many many moons ago" and i won a pot and stood up and dragged the chips in. After a table full of laughter, Maggie from Merrion explained the line rule, do not touch chips, dealer will do that. If there is someone who is getting lambasted at the table, I dont put them in for all their money, thats just me. I think you did right.

Thanks. I had some unbelievable luck earlier in the night when I hit runner runner 8s for quads when all in with my last €45 so I suppose I didn't want to ruin the Karma !!! I left with over €1k so I suppose I didn't really care too much about it. Oh, plus he mentioned not having any petrol in the car and I was a bit worried he might siphon off mine

Ste05

Well if you were guaranteed Karma/ Variance like that then I'd give the chap a back rub as well to make him feel better after I gave him his free check and he lost the hand.

€45 into +€1,000 in one night. Impressive...

handsfree

i think you were being nice but what would you have thought if he had won the pot. there is a stage were if people are on a bad run theu should give up. also people should not play with every penny they have. i had a friend who was all in with a straight and got out drawn on the river when the villian made a house. the guy went from being 95% sure of a €1200 pot to having to walk home to blackrock

ianmc38

handsfree wrote:

the guy went from being 95% sure of a €1200 pot to having to walk home to blackrock

Lol.

RoundTower

Bet. If he folds ask him "Did you have anything? I was bluffing."

cardshark202

Thats terrible. Put the cheeky fúcker in. I've learned to feel no sympathy for these poor student types who are down to their last few chips because I'm one of them. If he can't handle losing, he shouldn't be playing. I've seen similiar situations where there is a few hundred in the pot or whatever and I have some huge hand, the guy has say €17 left after putting most of his money in on the turn, but I'll always put him in for his last €17. Its poker not tiddly winks.

cardshark202

RoundTower wrote:

Bet. If he folds ask him "Did you have anything? I was bluffing."

Actually I prefer this idea.:D

pok3rplaya

If I could find primary school kids with €200 who wanted to play with me I would.

Norwich Fan Rob

played a while ago in a cash game, had AJ, poor table, i raised pot , say €7, 5 callers, flop comes J63 rainbow, i bet pot, 2 callers inc a young lad, (this was bout 40), pot was now about 160, lad had €8 behind, blank on turn, i bet €100, 1 caller, (a station who cant fold any pair), kid folds and says fcuk it, i need this to get home, folds, river another 6, kid had 86o.

wayfarer

LMAO they just can't win!

ollyk1

careca wrote:

Fitz cash game last Sat night. This young bloke, prob student, was playing and although a good enough player, he was having a bad night. At one stage he went to pick up his cards from the table and dropped one on the floor, whereby he was told that his hand was mucked (new one to me but fair enough I suppose). He later said he had the nuts.

anyway I'd say he was down about 100 and had about 130 left. I picked up KK in early position and raised the pot (lets say 7). Couple of callers including young player. Flop J high rags. I pet pot (about 25), young guy only caller. Turn rag, I bet about 65 or something like that. Young guy calls. River another rag and I'm 99% certain I'm ahead and that he has a J. He has about 30/40 left and I go to pick up my chips to bet when he says "go on give us a free check ?". Now that was the 1% I was missing to ensure I was ahead. What do you do ?

He went home and spent his money on cigarettes or drugs or something you should have bet 100% of the time and saved him from the self abuse. Thinak about it imagine every session you play you gift someone €45 that won't be long in adding up and tipping you into a losing player and I don't care how well you are running.

NickyOD

Bet and tell him his middle pair is no good. He'll still call but you'll feel better about it.

Doc Farrell

careca wrote:

Maybe I should give up so. I checked to him, showed my kings and he mucked. The thing that annoyed me was I half expected him to get up with his 30/40 and go home but he proceeded to lose it over the next couple hands :rolleyes:

Still not sure though if I was right or wrong. I suppose if he got a couple of double ups and proceeded to clean me out I'd be fairly sick going home.

Maybe you are too decent. I softplayed once and it cost me 800 in tourney winnings. I never soft play ever against anyone. I will only check it down if I genuinely feel that I may be in difficulty. Otherwise, raise.

I like a lot of the people I play against so it makes life simpler if they know I will play against them exactly as I play against everybody else.

There is something pure about taking your seat at the table and leaving aside all sympathies. If that kid had have won I doubt he would have shown you the same sympathy. Not that you would need it. I hope you're in training for the Cup game Careca?

hotspur

For an uninspired "go on give us a free check" the cheeky little monkey gets nothing, for a near perfect, empassioned, impression of John Turturro's "Look into you heart" routine from Miller's Crossing he gets a €10 discount

careca

Doc Farrell wrote:

I hope you're in training for the Cup game Careca?

course Doc. Nice win by you on Sat night. You played very well to do it. I posted about it next day but Mods moved it to bad beat/wow thread :rolleyes:

Doc Farrell

Cheers chief! I only just read it as I don't go into the bad beat thread, especially not to boast! There were only three tables and two of the people on the final table didnt actually know how to play Omaha so it wasn't the proudest poker of my life. Actually I don't know how first prize managed to make it to 600 come to think of it.
I'm playing in my last ppp sat for the Irish Open on Sunday and my record stands: I've played in every one since January and haven't made the final table once! Oh yeah!
Actually I went out on the bubble in a 10 dollar qualifier the other night and got 98 dollars instead of the 103 dollar ticket. Next night I got a ticket for twenty so I consider that 70 dollars profit! Thats loser maths for you!

My favourite Saturday night player, Vernon 'the living chip hoover' got very unlucky to place second. He cracks me up when he announces 'pot' every time he hits top pair in omaha! And then wins with top full house on the river!

In the 2nd last hand I raised on the flop with top pair: nines! and he reraises with overcards! no pair! In fact his odds were better than mine but he missed!

it was a fun night.

kickintheteeth

handsfree wrote:

i think you were being nice but what would you have thought if he had won the pot. there is a stage were if people are on a bad run theu should give up. also people should not play with every penny they have. i had a friend who was all in with a straight and got out drawn on the river when the villian made a house. the guy went from being 95% sure of a €1200 pot to having to walk home to blackrock

wat was this friends name? either i know the same guy, or just a freaky coincidence! same pot, same hands, st8 on turn, against two pair? hit a house!

smurph

Doc Farrell wrote:

Cheers chief! I only just read it as I don't go into the bad beat thread, especially not to boast! There were only three tables and two of the people on the final table didnt actually know how to play Omaha so it wasn't the proudest poker of my life. Actually I don't know how first prize managed to make it to 600 come to think of it.
I'm playing in my last ppp sat for the Irish Open on Sunday and my record stands: I've played in every one since January and haven't made the final table once! Oh yeah!
Actually I went out on the bubble in a 10 dollar qualifier the other night and got 98 dollars instead of the 103 dollar ticket. Next night I got a ticket for twenty so I consider that 70 dollars profit! Thats loser maths for you!

My favourite Saturday night player, Vernon 'the living chip hoover' got very unlucky to place second. He cracks me up when he announces 'pot' every time he hits top pair in omaha! And then wins with top full house on the river!

In the 2nd last hand I raised on the flop with top pair: nines! and he reraises with overcards! no pair! In fact his odds were better than mine but he missed!

it was a fun night.

Well, the way Vernon plays omaha all I can say is thanks be to j*sus he doesn't play cash games......phew!!!!

careca

smurph wrote:

Well, the way Vernon plays omaha all I can say is thanks be to j*sus he doesn't play cash games......phew!!!!

Lol. I could be wrong and its only a hunch, but I suspect he probably did play cash games at some time and learned a nice little lesson from it. But thats just pure speculation on my part.

Hectorjelly

What this guy did is pathetic and I think you should of put him all in, slowrolled him when you won and then called him an idiot.

ianmc38

Hectorjelly wrote:

What this guy did is pathetic and I think you should of put him all in, slowrolled him when you won and then called him an idiot.

Harsh but fair.

myflipflops

as a student type myself i say take him for everything he's worth. it'll teach him a lesson in the long run.

i saw a similar enough situation in a SE 1/2 PL game a couple of weeks back. There was a drunken student losing his shirt at the table. he was on the button and not paying attention as the pot went to 50 pre flop. he thought it was 10to play, announced call and threw in €10. the dealer pointed out his mistake. student gives it the auld bambi eyes and the table consents to him taking his 10 back and folding his hand. I didnt particluarly agree with this but wasnt in the pot so i kept quiet.

2 hands later, the student is in a decent pot with one of the guys who was kind enough to save him €50 earlier. it comes to the river and the student is first to act. he has such a monster that he proceeds to put his hand in his pocket, take out about €200 in notes and try to put it with his chip stack as an all in bet. the table erupts in laughter and comes to a general consensus that this guy shouldnt be let off lightly.

Goodluck2me

I play quite frequently on the cash tables in the fitz, as a student myself, and i can see where you are coming from with your check but if he is awarded this free check he learns nothing. i have seen several players playing with us (i.e. myself and fellow students) and after maybe winning a large pot and sees the student was either unlucky or cleaned out proceed to give them a few quid back to get them back into the game again. this is probably better, but at the same time the best appreciation you'll ever get of money is when youve lost it and not when you have been checked or let away with 50 euro because sooner or later youll learn the hard way..as i have and im glad of it.;)

TacT

The game is to take chips off whoever wants to give them away, take them off his hands. He might learn something from it, then again, he might not.