Folding Overpairs

pok3rplaya

I think I've seen a few posts around here from people saying they were having trouble folding overpairs. So fwiw I just though I'd post an example of where folding AA is standard for me, as I believe it should be for everyone else who wants to win.



No read on the opponet as I had just sat down. Minraises usually mean l low pocket pairs and weak Aces on these tables.

Note that I play this the same even if the board isn't paired.

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Hand #256928229 at table: Table TH 26
Started: Wed Apr 05 21:19:00 2006

SirFredrik is at seat 1 with 223.05
izzy11 is at seat 2 with 100.35
sstorture is at seat 3 with 148.00
Gigi33 is at seat 4 with 210.36
uros is at seat 5 with 223.22
All-in4Fun is at seat 6 with 197.00
kude is at seat 7 with 317.65
SunOABeach is at seat 8 with 98.00
italia77 is at seat 9 with 145.00
Reloadm8 is at seat 10 with 188.00

SirFredrik posts the large blind 2.00
Reloadm8 posts the small blind 1.00

All-in4Fun: As, Ac

Pre-flop:

izzy11: Fold
sstorture: Fold
Gigi33: Fold
uros: Raise 4.00
All-in4Fun: Raise 12.00
kude: Fold
SunOABeach: Fold
italia77: Fold
Reloadm8: Fold
SirFredrik: Fold
uros: Call 12.00

Flop (Board: 8d, Jc, Js):

uros: Check
All-in4Fun: Bet 20.00
uros: Raise 40.00
All-in4Fun: Raise 90.00
uros: All in
All-in4Fun: Fold

breadmonkey

Hectorjelly wrote:

Never raise for information

I remember this from another thread. I think this is essentially what you are doing.

Here it is costing you $50 extra to find out you are behind. I'm not disputing it works, but is there a "cheaper" option?

Also above, am I correct in assuming that you think he has either AJ or 88?

Ste05

Ye hate the re-re-raise.

Normally any re-re-re-raise is an instafold with anything but the nuts (unless you're pot committed - as you will normally be after most re-re-raises). Fairly standard TBH

pok3rplaya

breadmonkey wrote:

I remember this from another thread. I think this is essentially what you are doing.

Here it is costing you $50 extra to find out you are behind. I'm not disputing it works, but is there a "cheaper" option?

Also above, am I correct in assuming that you think he has either AJ or 88?

Call and re-evaluate the turn? Thats is a good line too I'll admit.

JTs, JQs are possibles as well.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Call and re-evaluate the turn? Thats is a good line too I'll admit.

JTs, JQs are possibles as well.

What about QQ or KK

a-k-47

Did u not rule out K,K? he may also have u on a pair.

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

What about QQ or KK

I ment hands in his range which beat me.

fuzzbox

I consider checking the flop.

ianmc38

You've put in $102? Certainly isn't a standard fold for me..

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

You've put in $102? Certainly isn't a standard fold for me..

Well then please play at my tables and call my re-re-re-raises All-In with a pair of A's

AmarilloFats

I'm ecstatic to get my money in on this flop at 1/2 party against average opp.

At the party 1/2 tables you'll get QQ and KK's money here all day.
with 100BB against the average 1/2 party player I am looking to get all my, and his, money in here.
you've got AA, with 100BB, your default should be to get all money in on the vast majority of flops and tweak it from there.

ianmc38

AmarilloFats wrote:

I'm ecstatic to get my money in on this flop at 1/2 party against average opp.

At the party 1/2 tables you'll get QQ and KK's money here all day.

Exactly. I've often seen monkeys four-bet like this when they think QQ/KK is good.

ianmc38

Ste05 wrote:

Well then please play at my tables and call my re-re-re-raises All-In with a pair of A's

Come play at mine. I'll put in my notes. Ste05 - Four-bets with absolute monsters

Iago

I was one of those players that spoke about having difficulty dropping overpairs, although my examples are not normally what I would see as easy decisions. Which is no doubt part of my problem.

Take this hand last night for example

.50/1 Full Ring and I have AA in MP ($75)

UTG Limps
Folded to me and I raise to $5
Button Flat calls ($126)
UTG flat calls ($45)

Flop comes down POT ($17.50)

3d 3h 5s

UTG checks
I bet $10
Button raises to $25
UTG folds
I call $15
POT ($67.50)

Turn 4h

I bet $45 all-in
Button calls $45
Pot ($157.50)

River Tc

I've (AcAh) two pair A's and 3's
Button has (Ts 3s) a full house 3's over T's

After calling the preflop raise I didn't put him on any hand that had a 3 or 4 in it, this has been a recurring theme lately.

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

Come play at mine. I'll put in my notes. Ste05 - Four-bets with absolute monsters

LOL, then I'll just have to 4 Bet bluff you once and take down a nice pot... (hopefully I'll have 24o and can show it )

P.S. My problem with this particular flop is that it's paired, who bet's like this without AJ or 88??? Even the monkey's at 1/2 etc.

On an unpaired board, it's a different kettle of fish altogether....

smurph

fwiw ??? what is this short for

brianmc

smurph wrote:

fwiw ??? what is this short for

for what its worth question-mark question-mark question-mark

smurph

brianmc wrote:

for what its worth question-mark question-mark question-mark

ha ha your a funny onion.:D

ianmc38

ianmc38 wrote:

My biggest problem is not dropping overpairs on paired boards.

Thats what I posted last week in iagos "long and winding" thread. Big leak of mine.

Bandana boy

Against an unknown first or second time you lay down your overpair
I would call this plenty of times and fold this plenty of times on PPP 1-2 all depends on player
There is more than 1 lunatic who have re-raised me when i have the J with 9t on PPP

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

Against an unknown first or second time you lay down your overpair
I would call this plenty of times and fold this plenty of times on PPP 1-2 all depends on player
There is more than 1 lunatic who have re-raised me when i have the J with 9t on PPP

Check/minraised ??

Ppl on PPP at the 1/2 level staple their holdings to their forehead. Its like playing "Apache" or "blind mans bluff" (whatever its called) ... except that they cant see your holding (are they then double-blind?).

A paired J is very different than a paired 3, you have position, and dont want to be raised on this board, as you might make a mistake.

A check here is circumspect, and can make you more money against ... say 44 or 55 or 66 who think they are good, and lose you less against ... say AJ, who "milks" you for 1/3rd bet on the turn and 1/3rd bet on the river. Good job bubba.

fuzzbox

Also - 3-betting and folding to a push is not good !!

3-betting is not good.

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

I consider checking the flop.

This is interesting. Explain please? There are hands in his range which can call while we're ahead. Lots of pocket pairs who think I have AK, 78s, 89s, 9Ts.

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

Also - 3-betting and folding to a push is not good !!

Why not? My hand is so exposed I may as well be playing with cards face up yet still he want's to get is money in the middle. That has to count for something.

I don't consider myself committed with half a stack in. Do you?

wayfarer

Maybe he knew there was no way you were holding a J since you reraised, so he felt he could take you off it be representing trips. I've been against this more often than being actually against trips in this situation, but I play at levels with more fishies.

Hectorjelly

you check the flop because its more profitable to do so

Marq

I find it hard to believe that you play this hand the exact same way if the board isn't paired.

BTW, Hector I've posted those flight details for you.

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

you check the flop because its more profitable to do so

Really. Would you like to explain how you came to that conclusion?

ianmc38

Checking the flop saves you money from someone holding a jack and wins you money from somebody that bets with 22-TT, QQ/KK or even AK/KQ.