Flat feet and jogging

g-punkteffekt

ok I weigh about 13stone 5lbs and am 5'11''. I use cardiovascular machines 3 times a week for 30 minutes really intensely and do heavy weights 3 times a week. Anyway - anytime I go jogging I usually get some kind of injury after a few runs. I'd rather be outside jogging than on a stupid cardio machine. Apparently I have flat feet, I remember being at a chiropotist when I was a kid about 10 years old. Anyway - where can I get special running shoes for flat feet/fallen arches people? I'm hoping if I have better shoes I might not get injuries - i.e. pains in lower back, bad shins, inner thigh, ass, etc. etc.
thanks

Transform

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-52-167-0-7152,00.html

Then choose from there also go and get orthotics if it does not clear up with the right shoes

Rogueish

You really need to get a professional to assess your feet before you do anything else.

You may not just have flat feet but other predisposing factors such as a tibial rotation, gluteus medius weakness, hip rotation. lack of plyometric ability. All of which have an effect on the running biomechanics of the lower limb.

An orthosist or podiatrist can recommend the correct orthotic inserts, relevant strengthening/stretching exercises and the correct running footwear. You may need a specialised orthotic that will fit into your running footwear. The footwear itself may not be enough to correct the imbalance.

However in the meantime I've found that Asics Kayano (the full gel insole) to be best for cushioning and supporting the arch of the foot. Espically for runners

Reyman

Rogueish wrote:

However in the meantime I've found that Asics Kayano (the full gel insole) to be best for cushioning and supporting the arch of the foot. Espically for runners

Pricey shoe - but good.

The Asics GT-2110 might be an ok alternative if you're short of cash

g-punkteffekt

yes I bought the ones mentioned above at lunchtime. The dude in arnotts said they should help me. They cost 100 euro, didn't really want to spend any more than that. So I'll get back to youse soon, hopefully my joints wont mess up again. Last time I had to stop because I got some horrible sprain painy thing in the side of my right foot, that lasted about a month.

shroomfox

I had that pain in my right foot once as well.

Not nice.

Stark

I have flat feet as well. They're a curse injury wise. The one good thing is impact injuries are rare for people with flat feet as the foot absorbs a lot of impact. You'll probably get every twisty injury known to man though. Make sure you follow a rigorous stretching program, taking into account all the little ligaments (not just hamstrings, thighs and calves).

Reyman wrote:

The Asics GT-2110 might be an ok alternative if you're short of cash

They're a nice shoe alright, have a pair myself along with a pair of Kayanos. The GT's are actually a bit more comfortable I find, but that's because they're softer and probably don't restrict pronation as much. The Kayanos are a heavier and stiffer shoe but they're excellent for making sure you're not twisting too much.

Rogueish

Stark wrote:

The one good thing is impact injuries are rare for people with flat feet as the foot absorbs a lot of impact.

Stark whoever told you that was talking through their ass!!! The natural arch of the foot is designed to absorb impact. 'Normal' people pronate slightly on imact and return to neutral. This action absorbs the impact of ground contact. Think about it - in the para-olympics the running athletes have specially designed 'legs' that allow their leg to absorb the impact and give a spring to their step. These specially designed 'legs' are curved in shape mimicing the job of the arch of the foot in humans.

You'll probably get every twisty injury known to man though. Make sure you follow a rigorous stretching program, taking into account all the little ligaments (not just hamstrings, thighs and calves).

While you will be more prone to 'shin splints' and the like. Longterm you are more likely to develop stres fractures of the lower limb as the bone takes over the shock absorbtion function of the arches of the foot.

They're a nice shoe alright, have a pair myself along with a pair of Kayanos. The GT's are actually a bit more comfortable I find, but that's because they're softer and probably don't restrict pronation as much. The Kayanos are a heavier and stiffer shoe but they're excellent for making sure you're not twisting too much.

If you are as pronated as you say. Your lower limbs need time to adjust to the support of the asics or other forms of arch support. You've had x number of years walking around on pronated feet it takes more than a few hours for your biomechanics to adjust.

slicus ricus

I also have flat feet/ fallen arches. As Rogueish correctly said, people who are flat footed tend to get impact related injuries - we are more likely to have knee, shin and back problems, as the impact of foot meeting the ground so flat causes these area to take the impact. It was described to me that its like a shock going from your foot upwards.

Also, us flat footed people tend to have less balance as a result, so core work is important.

There are things available that will help - i got contour insoles from a physio a few years ago, which helped slightly. One of my mates got insoles moulded to suit his feet (like how you get a moulded mouthguard) and he has found them great. Im gonna get those made in the summer myself!

Also, try to avoid running on a treadmill - so much impact. Its better to run on grass or even on concrete than to run on a treadmill. Alternatively, you can do non-impact cardio - bike, cross-trainer, rowing machine etc`.

r3nu4l

Okay, I have flat feet too, have any of you ever been walking (at a fast pace) and after a while you get what I can only describe as warm-cold pains up the outside of your shins??? They are warm but also cold and it feels as though the outside of the shin to the knee has turned to concrete?

Anyone know what this is?

aido_2006

sounds like shin splints and there is very little that can be done for it... am in the army, and shin splints are a common problem caused from marching and walking.. could be to do with the type of footwear ur wearing

r3nu4l

aido_2006 wrote:

sounds like shin splints and there is very little that can be done for it... am in the army, and shin splints are a common problem caused from marching and walking.. could be to do with the type of footwear ur wearing

That might explain it, spent years and years wearing Irish Department of Defence issue boots, marching and hiking etc!! Hey, hear's* an idea, we could get together and sue just like the lads in the deafness claims Seriously though, thanks for the advice, can this be treated if I get my feet looked at?


*Anyone get the pun? Awful wasn't it?

aido_2006

lol am a bit of my pension yet mate!!! im not too sure about treating it... ive never looked into it, ive kinda had it but its never lasted very long with me and came in very random spells but im sure there has to be some sort of treatment... best of looking into it with a doctor/physio...

Tar.Aldarion

Go to a professional. I didn't get special shoes. He gave me fake soles to put in any shoes I wear. They work well.
Have them for about ten years now.

Rogueish

Orthotics ('the fake soles' Tar.Aldarion describes) work by correcting the lack of arch on the sole of the foot. It supports the sole in an arched position. The best thing about them is that they can be moved from footwear to footwear. Dept of Defense issue boots are a biomechanical disaster. They have no cushioning and little support.

Note Tar.Aldarion: if you have had the same pair of orthotics for the last ten years than they def. need an overhaul. Orthotics as a rule only have a life of 2-5 years depending on how much wear you put them through. Esp is you are lifting heavy weights and running a distance on them they tend to have a shorter life before needing renewal or an overhaul.

Tar.Aldarion

Rogueish wrote:

Orthotics ('the fake soles' Tar.Aldarion describes) work by correcting the lack of arch on the sole of the foot. It supports the sole in an arched position. The best thing about them is that they can be moved from footwear to footwear. Dept of Defense issue boots are a biomechanical disaster. They have no cushioning and little support.

Note Tar.Aldarion: if you have had the same pair of orthotics for the last ten years than they def. need an overhaul. Orthotics as a rule only have a life of 2-5 years depending on how much wear you put them through. Esp is you are lifting heavy weights and running a distance on them they tend to have a shorter life before needing renewal or an overhaul.

Ya I know, especially as I don't have the metal ones. However, my feet still seem fine, I notice nothing bad. Think I should go get a replacement pair? How do I go about that?
Should probably get my medical card first...

Rogueish

If they are not causing you too much problem then it's really a personal choice whether you want to go about renewing them - they can cost up to €400 for a new pair made especuially for you. Go to an orthosist or physiotherapist who has experience/equipment in making/

Also I'm not sure whether they are available on the Medical Card Scheme it may well be worth looking into.

Tar.Aldarion

Rogueish wrote:

If they are not causing you too much problem then it's really a personal choice whether you want to go about renewing them - they can cost up to €400 for a new pair made especuially for you. Go to an orthosist or physiotherapist who has experience/equipment in making/

Also I'm not sure whether they are available on the Medical Card Scheme it may well be worth looking into.

Ye, I must check it out, would be handy if it was covered.
I remember them being expensive all right.

cousin_borat

I really like the GT-2110 and they have excellent arch support.

Reyman wrote:

Pricey shoe - but good.

The Asics GT-2110 might be an ok alternative if you're short of cash

slicus ricus

r3nu4l wrote:

Okay, I have flat feet too, have any of you ever been walking (at a fast pace) and after a while you get what I can only describe as warm-cold pains up the outside of your shins??? They are warm but also cold and it feels as though the outside of the shin to the knee has turned to concrete?

Anyone know what this is?

I get the exact same thing mate - Its defo from flat feet. Im defo gonna get the orthodics done - seems like its well worth it!

Reyman

This 'flat feet' seems to be very common.

Anybody know what causes it? Or better still how you avoid getting it ?

slicus ricus

Reyman wrote:

This 'flat feet' seems to be very common.

Anybody know what causes it? Or better still how you avoid getting it ?

As far as i know, its just something you're born with (or if you're lucky, not born with)! I dont think there's too much you can do to avoid it but there's loads you can do to reduce the effects of it (most of which have been outlined on this thread).

Rogueish

Usually people are born with a predisposition to overly pronated feet. However thaere are many ways to reduce your disposition to developing sympotomatic pronated feet.

1) Developing the lower limbs plyometric ability. This develops the muscles along the arch of the foot which holds up the arch and dissipated the forces of running and walking.

2) Proper footwear. The 'fashion' of last season was flat ballet pumps which offer no support. These caused people to 'walk' around in a shuffle. This alters the biomechanics of walking as the forefoot does not lift off the ground, the tibalis anterior weakens, further aggravating the condition.

Also the current school footwear fashion especially among girls is towards the Dubarry 'boat style' shoes. Now parents may be forgiven in thinking that they are doing their little darlings a favour by buying a reputable make of shoes. However as these shoes wear throughout the school year - they become looser. It is 'uncool' to wear the laces tied. So by May all you hear around the school halls is shuffle shuffle shuffle. As they cannot lift their feet from the floor or risk losing a shoe. These kids might as well be wearing their slippers to school!!!! (OK that was a rant and slightly off topic Sorry)

Guys tend to go for flat non supportive runners - fashion runners. they syle has been for the really light ones. Basically if you can bend a shoe backwards toe to heel easily it has not got enough support.

Then why might you ask did older generations not have this magnitude of a problem.
a) If they had they probably did not recognise it as a medical condition
b) While most of them grew up walking barefoot they developed their foot musculature to a higher degree than we do today. Today children are put in their first shoe as quickly as possible rather than letting them run around the house in their socks/bare feet and develop their feet.

3) Gluteus Medius Insufficency/Weakeness
If you have flat feet stand on the floor in your bare feet. Look down at your feet and squeeze the cheeks of you ass together. If you notice that the arch becomes highe or that you feet roll outwards slightly than you may have a gluteus medius weakness exacerbating your flat feet. It would be well worth your while working on developing your gluteal strength to see if it decreases your symptoms before you get orthotics made for you.

4) Some people have a naturally rotated tibia (shinbone) e.g. that can cause 'knock knees' or 'bowed legs' that can have a contributary factor to pronated feet. Most people are asymptomatic so it isn't a problem but some people can have symptoms. There is very little you can do about it if you have.

5) Exercises such as towel curls can help develop the muscles in you feet. Place a long towel on the floor put your foot at the end. Scrunching (flexing) and unscrunching (extending) your toes to gather the towel.

r3nu4l

Rogueish, thanks for that info!! Can you suggest any other stretches? I found this:

http://www.bodyresults.com/E2Shinsplints.asp

Any good?

Rogueish

Have a look at this article

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/1079-shin-splints.htm

Stretching alone will not get rid of shin splints. The shin splints are a reaction of the muscle, usually the anterior tibalis, going into spasm. Because it is continuously working eccentrically to try to lower the foot to the ground with control in order to minimise the imact force. It become tired, overworked and thus weakened. It trys to garner false strength by going into spasm which is also a protective mechanism. Pain is the body's way of telling you to stop a particular activity.

The Wall Shin Raises really work the anterior tibialis. If your shins are giving you trouble get them calmed down first and ease into the exercises.

Sometimes working on ankle eversion in order to strengthen the peroneal muscles can have a positive effect on the arch of the foot.

A short term calm down for irritated shins is ice massage. Get yourself a styrofoam cup fill it with water and freeze. When fully frozen peel 1 inch off the top of the cup. Run the exposed ice up and down the shins for 10 mins. It wors a treat not just for shins but any injured bodypart. Because you are continually moving the ice you won't get ice burn and it is much more effective than an ice pack