KK early position

eoghan104

Just wondering how people generally like to play this?

Last night in the fitz i played it terribly and went out!

Blinds are 150/300. I have about 3000 in chips. Im UTG + 2. Im gazing round the room not concentrating and then the action is on me. i look down at KK and hastily decide to min raise to 400 in order to induce a bluff! i throw out 400 and only then realise that the blinds had just gone up, so therefore only a call (what a fcukin stupid thing to do!)

Anyway 5 limpers and we see a flop of 9 5 3 rainbow. i fire out 800 angrily and get one call from a guy i know as a decent player but had just seen him go all in with A 6 on a raggy flop without even a pair and again with A 3 on a 3 5 6 board!

Anyway the turn brought another rag and i went all in for my last 1800 and he called with a set of nines and i was gone.

I know i played the hand badly but never know what to do in this position as its a hand i want to win some chips with buts gets me in trouble when i dont raise enough.

Any thoughts?

fuzzbox

What exactly do you want to hear?

You were doomed regardless.


PS - Im all in.

cardshark202

1. Almost never min raise. (especially preflop)
2. With 10BBs left you should just get it all in preflop.
3. If you had more chips, say about 20k then make it about 900 to go.
4. Always keep an eye on the clock and listen out for when the blinds have increased.

Iceman78

With blinds at their current level, i would just stick them all in and hope someone puts you on a bluff. Think the fella with 9s would have called you anyway by the sounds of his previous plays and you would now be posting in the bad beat thread.

eoghan104

Thanks cardshark your right i shouldve pushed! i was bein greedy and trying to be too cute! from start to finish it was a disaster and it really pissed me off goin out like that!

5starpool

Nothing you could do. Even if you had raised properly (it was 100-200 and you tried to raise to 300 btw) he would have called you almost certainly.

As has previously been noted though, min raises *suck*, and if I didn't mention it to you before you left the table then I certainly mentioned it after you left.

You did play it wrong, but playing it right there wouldn't have helped either. 700 would have been my raise of choice from 100/200, but considering you hadn't noticed the blinds had gone up a bet to 500 still seems reasonable for 75/150 from where you thought you were.

eoghan104

yeh thanks dom for cleanin up the blinds or whatever i was in dreamland last night! i know i couldnt get away from it but i just hate the way i played it! I looked like a fool! so :mad:

5starpool

Hmmm,

Considering your post above I have edited the name that I put in earlier. You might want to consider that people know people. Chill Winston. Live and learn.

ionapaul

Once or twice in a blue moon, on an agressive or loose table where the chips fly around like so many butterflies in a meadow on a sunny summer day, I will limp with KK in your position and hope for a raise somewhere along the line. Then re-raise all in and see what happens. I only do this occassionally and on tables where I genuinely expect a raiser to rear their head closer to the button. Easier to judge a situation like this live than online I suppose, at least for me.

5starpool

Limp = One thing
Attempted, but failed min raise = another

min raises are the pits, unless used for a very specific purpose e.g. to annoy someone deliberately etc

eoghan104

I wasnt slaggin off the guy dom. Ive already said hes a good player........ i apologise for calling him that it wasnt meant as a personal attack im just showing my frustration at how i played it! sorry anyway

Bp!

5starpool wrote:

min raises are the pits, unless used for a very specific purpose e.g. to annoy someone deliberately etc

Or if your playin Limit poker:D ... i'll get me coat !

rx8

Hi eoghan, I was the guy with the set of nines!,and I do think that you could have played it better,a large or all-in raise would certainly have scared me off as you had played very few hands before this.But I was always going to stay for a mid-sized or min raise. I known you'll play better the next time we meet,and I'll have to get my money in first!...

eoghan104

Hey martin, yeh i defo could have played it better and i was angry with myself! i hope you put my chips to good use???

i hope u dont think i was being derogatory to you in any way during this thread.......... as i said already i was pissed off with myself no one else!

Anyway best of luck at the tables and hopefully well do battle again soon!!

rx8

No not at all Eoghan, I ended up going out in about 12th.on 88 Vs. 10 10. and no help on board. I got a few bob back in the cash game afterwards though. See you again soon ,Martin.

Rnger

Never ever min raise preflop (Although harrington sometimes says to raise to 2xBB to mix things up which i disagree with). I was at this table aswel and you need to learn to compose yourself a bit more, I called in mid position with Q5h because of your failed minraise and shakey hands. Theres only so many hands a player will do this with. If i hit i the flop well enough i figure ill have your stack.

You should take your time in future. Theres no rush, check the blinds and decide what is the best amount to raise to (or limp) considering your stack, the other players stacks and the general looseness/tightness of the table. I hope this advice is usefull.

ionapaul

Another move other than the limp-reraise moved I mentioned above is the following, which can only be used if there are inexperienced or extremely gullible players at the table and you have either KK or better AA: look at your cards, sigh loudly, shake your head, sigh once more, grimace, sigh for a third time, then say 'fúck it, i'm all in!' and push. I have done this 13 times and I was called and doubled up twice.






Both times by Olly, god bless him.

califano

ionapaul wrote:

Both times by Olly, god bless him.

lol. And here was me thinking olly was the master of selling the act not buying it!!.

5starpool

Rnger wrote:

Never ever min raise preflop (Although harrington sometimes says to raise to 2xBB to mix things up which i disagree with). I was at this table aswel and you need to learn to compose yourself a bit more, I called in mid position with Q5h because of your failed minraise and shakey hands. Theres only so many hands a player will do this with. If i hit i the flop well enough i figure ill have your stack.

You should take your time in future. Theres no rush, check the blinds and decide what is the best amount to raise to (or limp) considering your stack, the other players stacks and the general looseness/tightness of the table. I hope this advice is usefull.

What seat were you in on this table? It must have been either 5 or 6 I would imagine. I was in seat 3.

Rnger

Seat 5. I went out when my AKo in the BB ran into AA. Nice to meet you

5starpool

ah ok, I have you pegged now. ul. I'll watch for your and your aggressive play next time

AK is a hand that has got me into so much trouble, especially lately for some reason. I have had to give myself a good talking to about it.

Even last night seeing it played several times all in preflop, things would have turned out better after the flop for AK each time I think, i.e. would have won with a flop bet as opposed to leading on the flop, but outdrawn on the turn, or allowed people to get away from them, such as your hand.

ollyk1

ionapaul wrote:

Another move other than the limp-reraise moved I mentioned above is the following, which can only be used if there are inexperienced or extremely gullible players at the table and you have either KK or better AA: look at your cards, sigh loudly, shake your head, sigh once more, grimace, sigh for a third time, then say 'fúck it, i'm all in!' and push. I have done this 13 times and I was called and doubled up twice.






Both times by Olly, god bless him.

I'm laughing so hard here the neighbours will think I've lost it completely!! WP ::)

Tar.Aldarion

Once I did that without meaning too. I looked at my hand at galway poker soc a few weeks back and realised I was still playing with the last hand in my mind. I yelled 'oh ****' by accident and went all in because there was no turning back. I had nothing but won. Phew!

Rnger

5starpool wrote:

ah ok, I have you pegged now. ul. I'll watch for your and your aggressive play next time

AK is a hand that has got me into so much trouble, especially lately for some reason. I have had to give myself a good talking to about it.

Even last night seeing it played several times all in preflop, things would have turned out better after the flop for AK each time I think, i.e. would have won with a flop bet as opposed to leading on the flop, but outdrawn on the turn, or allowed people to get away from them, such as your hand.

You consider me aggressive? Now I know that you think im aggressive.. but now you know that i know that....

I'm not too unhappy with how i went out. I'm obviously unhappy I went out but I dont think i made a mistake in the last hand. I had 4k left after posting my BB with the blinds at 200/400. If it wasnt for the caller UTG i may have just called the 1.2k raise leaving the 2 of us in the pot and fold if a i miss leaving me with 3.2k to push/fold till I win or lose.

I pushed rather than calling mainly because of my position and I want to see all 5 cards with AK. I could have had him dominated if he had AQ/AJ/KQ but he was playing rather tighter than most so it was unlikely that he would call with such hands i guess. But considering my apparent aggressive image!

I ran into AA for anyone whos interested.

5starpool

It was just a commentary on AK play in general, not your one in particular. I know you had no real choice there with your stack, but some of the other ones, yes. Maybe the 'such as your hand' comment was not suitable for above. I forgot how shortstacked you were considering the blinds and I would have done the same there. You had more chips not long before that if I remember correctly?

Well you were more aggressive than me anyhow Not that that is saying much on last nights showing.

theslick

eoghan104 wrote:

Blinds are 150/300. I have about 3000 in chips. Im UTG + 2. Im gazing round the room not concentrating and then the action is on me. i look down at KK and hastily decide to min raise to 400 in order to induce a bluff!

Would the min raise not be 300 here?

5starpool

yes, hence his confusion. He though the blinds were still at the old level, which he is stating as 100/200, when in fact they were at the new level of 150/300.

theslick

ah right - so could he take the extra 100 back?

5starpool

He would have to take it back, no could about it. In this instance he announced a number to bet rather than saying raise. Since this number did not constitute a legal raise then it was deemed a call only.

brianmc

5starpool wrote:

Since this number did not constitute a legal raise then it was deemed a call only.

You're getting very good wit dem big words 5star!

constitute...

5starpool

brianmc wrote:

You're getting very good wit dem big words 5star!

constitute...

Too used to having to write verbose (like it?) emails at work I'm afraid. Flowery language makes it look like I do stuff.

Here is another big word for you:

Massive