[Article] Loopholes in the new penalty points system

Drax

THE effectiveness of the new penalty points system was last night called into question - four days before it begins.

Opposition politicians claimed there were "a staggering number" of loopholes that would make a mockery of the new system.

But a top garda warned that the force will mount a 'zero tolerance blitz' on the 31 new penalty points offences from Monday.

Chief Supt John Farrelly, of the Garda Traffic Corps, warned it will be possible for drivers to get the 12 points on a single journey from Dublin to Cork.

However, gardai still won't know if they've caught banned motorists who are still driving.

Fine Gael's Olivia Mitchell said some gardai believe Transport Minister Martin Cullen's attempts to stamp out the loopholes and remove gaps in the procedure have not worked.

She said: "Quite simply there are still no effective procedures to ensure that gardai know when a driver is disqualified."

Labour transport spokeswoman Roisin Shortall said: "The original penalty points in force have been dogged by an inadequate computer system. That is still the case. There is a huge problem still with the national driver file within the gardai." And she claimed enforcement levels had dropped.

Almost 500 hand-held computers have been issued to register points offences. But they won't tell officers if they've caught a rogue driver who should be off the road.

Launching the new information campaign yesterday, Mr Cullen said: "Reckless drivers, putting their lives and those of other road users at risk, are the target of these measures.

"Many road users do not realise the value of their driving licence until faced with the prospect of losing it."

Gardai said there would be no mercy for offenders. Chief Supt Farrelly said: "On a drive from Dublin to Cork if you infringe six times you will lose your licence. It could be speeding, going through an amber light or driving on a hard shoulder.

"There will be no honeymoon period," he added.

Drax

... So if I am driving the the road, and some gimp is up my arse trying to get by, I move over to let him pass, its possible for me to get points... ?

prospect

Yes this is one that puzzles me.

Recently on a recent long journey my wife was feeling ill. So, I was driving easy, about 85Kms on the main roads.
As traffic caught up on me, and all was safe, I'd pull into the hard shoulder and slw down a bit to let them pass. If there was a few cars, i could be driving in it for a couple of hundred meters.

So technically I am breaking the law, but would a guard prosecute in this instance, considering I cannot drive at the limit, and am just being corteous to other drivers.

junkyard

The whole system is a mess tbh, its like a witch hunt on the roads nowadays. Its hard enough to drive on the roads as they're in such poor condition and some of the drivers on them are just not up to scratch. It would be more in the governments line to sort out the driver testing in the first place and that would sort out most of the problems.

Hobbes

Drax wrote:

... So if I am driving the the road, and some gimp is up my arse trying to get by, I move over to let him pass, its possible for me to get points... ?

Why not just slow down instead of moving to the hard shoulder.

I doubt they are talking about moving into the hard shoulder slightly to let someone over take, but instead the shower of idiots that drive in the hard shoulder like its their own personal car lane.

redman

The gardai will suit themselves in the situation that you might find yourself in.

They have the choice when to issue the points and this example of driving in the hard shoulder to let someone by will be a classic one.

It's their call not ours and that will depend on the type of person the garda is and the mood they are in, aside from the situation.

Not worth the gamble and this could be a real pain in the ass whilst not achieving it's aim.

Hobbes

redman wrote:

They have the choice when to issue the points and this example of driving in the hard shoulder to let someone by will be a classic one.

Well if I had someone up my ass as signal of "I want to overtake you" then I slow down, and I continue to slow down until they maintain a safe breaking distance away from me.

BrianD3

You are allowed move into the hard shoulder to allow a following vehicle to overtake, says so in the ROTR.

Generally I welcome the introduction of penalty points for these offences but already there is confusion and misinformation going around about the offences themselves. Even in this thread as can be seen people are confused about the hard shoulder situation. Also there was confusion recently about penalty points for trucks using the outside lane of a M-way. Now we all know that this is *supposed* to refer only to a 3 lane motorway but that's not the message that is being put out. Perhaps it is the media's fault for leaving out vital information when talking about the penalty point offences. It might also be that the PR section of the DOT and Martin Cullen haven't got a feckin clue and are feeding them wrong/misleading info

Another one - penalty points for crossing a solid white line. it was recently pointed out that there are some circumstances where it is legal to cross a line but again there is confusion. IIRC they are not stated in the ROTR but I might be wrong,. They are stated clearly in the UK Highway Code, you are allowed to cross a solid line to pass a horse, bicycle or vehicles travelling <10 mph etc. if it is safe to do so.

Of course none of these penaltry pount offences are anything new, it's just that they were never enforced before but they might be now that they have points attached to them. This enforcement will highlight any flaws or loopholes in the legislation.

Doolittle51

Drax wrote:

... So if I am driving the the road, and some gimp is up my arse trying to get by, I move over to let him pass, its possible for me to get points... ?

Forget the people behind you. If they want to overtake you, let them make all the moves. I never pull into the hard shoulder to let someone pass. The hard shoulder is often full of potholes and it's dangerous to drive on it.

el tel

The are so many 'ifs and 'buts' if every driver contested every penalty point in the courts the whole hare-brained scheme would collapse rapidly.
The whole thing is just bull**** legislation to make it look like the government are doing something. They need to *actually do* something, namely sort out driver licensing, training and examination, publish an up to date ROTR, get in place a proper working database of driver details and sort out the bloody roads (decent line and lane markings in the cities would be a start). Apparently we are the richest country in the world you know.

blastman

That's the thing, there aren't any new offences, all these items have been offences all along. Just gives cops and politicians another chance to look and sound tough on the "carnage" on our roads. Meanwhile, the driving test queues get longer and longer.

Alun

That's true, there aren't any new offences, but the way it's all being 'promoted' on the TV and radio is only causing more confusion.

Take the whole 'driving on the hard shoulder' thing. This is clearly meant to target the people who drive on the hard shoulder of motorways to queue jump at exits, but now people think it's aimed at people who pull over onto the hard shoulder on single carriageway roads, which it isn't. And then there's the HGV's in the overtaking lane thing, again a probable misunderstanding. Given the general driving public's ignorance of many traffic regulations, this isn't exactly helping to clarify the situation to them.

But a top garda warned that the force will mount a 'zero tolerance blitz' on the 31 new penalty points offences from Monday.

[sarcasm mode]
Yeah, sure they will
[/sarcasm mode]

Seth Brundle

BrianD3 wrote:

Also there was confusion recently about penalty points for trucks using the outside lane of a M-way. Now we all know that this is *supposed* to refer only to a 3 lane motorway but that's not the message that is being put out.

I don't think we have any 3 lane motorways (at the moment), nor have we many 3 lane dual carriageways where a bus lane is not using up one of these lanes.

Alun wrote:

But a top garda warned that the force will mount a 'zero tolerance blitz' on the 31 new penalty points offences from Monday.

[sarcasm mode]
Yeah, sure they will
[/sarcasm mode]

They will. The blitz will start on Monday morning on all the main dual carriageways and will continue for a full 12 hours!

Big Nelly

Doolittle51 wrote:

Forget the people behind you. If they want to overtake you, let them make all the moves. I never pull into the hard shoulder to let someone pass. The hard shoulder is often full of potholes and it's dangerous to drive on it.

And in one post we see the problems Ireland has with the atitude of Irish drivers. Just be as ignorant as possible on the road so you can get where you are going 2-3 secs before someone else. Don't let anyone out, some people would cause a crash instead of letting another driver out.......

Example, was over test driving car yesterday. Was going up to local bank in car with seller in back, just spotted it had gone past 5.50 and I had only a parking ticket till then, mentioned it to car sales guy and he said turn around and we could put my car into there car park and then head up to bank, clamps where vicious around there he saidSo was a narrow enough road so had to do a 3 point turn.

So was a narrow enough road so had to do a 3 point turn. So waited till on coming traffic had stopped and swung over, put in reverse(at this stage some woman had come thru traffic lights which had gone green), so I reversed a bit to get a good enough swing to get car around safely without hitting front off kerb(car behind made sure to give me plenty of room once he seen that I was trying to turn)

Most of the road on the red car side was now free......went to take off and next thing the red car makes a big burst to try and fly past me in the free space that I had left to get swinging the car, lucky I seen the silly c**t and jammed on the breaks. She then decides to hit the breaks because she hadn't enough room and nearly slides into the front of the car. She then beeps at me.....

Usually I would of hopped out but I just put the car into gear and drove down the road. I was like a bear to be honest and the car sales man was in shock......ignorant c**t is what I call that......

el tel

BrianD3 wrote:

Also there was confusion recently about penalty points for trucks using the outside lane of a M-way. Now we all know that this is *supposed* to refer only to a 3 lane motorway but that's not the message that is being put out.

Interesting point, given that HGVs leaving the new port tunnel must exit onto the outside lane of the M1 motorway. That's foresight if ever there was :rolleyes:

comanche

Doolittle51 wrote:

Forget the people behind you. If they want to overtake you, let them make all the moves. I never pull into the hard shoulder to let someone pass. The hard shoulder is often full of potholes and it's dangerous to drive on it.

completly aggree, on single carriageways people's road position should be to the left of their lane's anyway not the center, that way it leaves room for people to manouver, but should not be in the hard shoulder- asking for trouble doing this.

The only time that I would make an exception to this is for an emergency vehicle if safe to do so.