Optus does a wobbler - Unpleasant side effects for Sky+ customers Down Under

Zaphod

The Optus B satellite, the Oz/NZ equivalent of the Astra satellites at 28E, went AWOL recently during a repositioning procedure and resulted in a few unhappy Sky+/MySky customers:


"MY SKY" not your SKY after all

The recent failure of the SKY satellite had another surprise for thousands of new “MY SKY” digital video recorder customers.
“MY SKY” is the new digital video recorder sold by Sky that allows its subscribers to theoretically view Sky programs whenever they want, and has been widely promoted recently by SKY TV.

When the MY SKY customers found that normal Sky TV broadcasts were unavailable due to the recent satellite malfunction, they reached for their remotes to play back other programs recorded earlier.

That is when they got the second nasty surprise. Their previously recorded programs started to play back but would then suddenly freeze with a message over the picture which said:

“No satellite signal is being received. Sky PDR requires a signal to be able to play back programs.”

So not only could they not watch the normal programming during the satellite blackout, they found that their playback equipment was crippled and reliant on an incoming SKY TV signal.

No satellite …no playback!

Industry experts are surprised that SKY has apparently made the MY SKY machine playback dependent upon a SKY broadcast signal, saying that there cannot be any reason for this other than for SKY to try to control the viewing of its subscribers. This appears to be contrary to SKY’s position that it allows viewers control over their entertainment.

Although suspicians are aroused, the exact cause of the playback problem is still unknown. Certainly there is no technical reason as to why any modern digital recorder should be tethered to a broadcast signal in order for it to operate in playback mode.

One school of thought is that Sky has built in a type of DRM (Digital Rights Management) that allows SKY complete control over what you watch and when. Certainly, this is the type of control that the makers of the new generation of DVD players, such as Blu-Ray and HD DVD are planning. They want to be able to update the DVD players with new restrictive software regularly, and even disable completely any player that plays an unauthorized copied disk. It remains to be seen if consumers will accept these types of controls or if they will simply avoid this new technology.

The current problem where MY SKY customers could no longer use their SKY video recorders even to play back programs highlights the potentially serious issues that can arise when complex DRM systems go wrong. Certainly it was a lesson Sony had recently with its “root-kit” DRM system built into audio CDs that resulted in a massive consumer backlash and law suits.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.asp?id=60831&c=w

Sparky

I assume our friend Rupert owns them aswell.

Zaphod

Sky TV in NZ started out as an independent outfit, but News Corp now have a large share in them. The MySky is based on Sky+.

Optus grew out of the Australian military/commerical satellite network but it now owned by Singtel, an arm of the Singapore government. The Aussies had a few sleepless nights when they realised that Singtel had Optus in their sights and golden opportunity the takeover provided for eavesdropping and industrial espionage.

Mossy Monk

Zaphod wrote:

No satellite …no playback!

this is also the case for Sky+ here

Ronan|Raven

Aye they were whining about it down here. It is affecting a lot of satellites the current solar activity a lot of the radio channels stopped broadcasting for a while.

watty

Zaphod wrote:

TV.



“No satellite signal is being received. Sky PDR requires a signal to be able to play back programs.”

So not only could they not watch the normal programming during the satellite blackout, they found that their playback equipment was crippled and reliant on an incoming SKY TV signal.

No satellite …no playback!

Industry experts are surprised that SKY has apparently made the MY SKY machine playback dependent upon a SKY broadcast signal, saying that there cannot be any reason for this other than for SKY to try to control the viewing of its subscribers. This appears to be contrary to SKY’s position that it allows viewers control over their entertainment.

Although suspicians are aroused, the exact cause of the playback problem is still unknown. Certainly there is no technical reason as to why any modern digital recorder should be tethered to a broadcast signal in order for it to operate in playback mode.

The reason is quite simple. The viewing card is not really important during recording. It is what sub you have during playback that decides what the card will decode as during playback the card / cam system works as if it is a live signal.

But NDS/videoguard and some others use a SECOND stream of data to validate the card (you can change your sub level) and also to refesh "keys" or something. So the card/cam system can't run long (by design) without a live satellite signal. The box for security only records the the program stream.

On Sky+ here and EXTRA layer of encryption not used on live broadcast is added. The card checks live on air data that you have a valid sub for Sky+ still, it not it won't decrypt even the FTA channels recorded (that got the extra layer of encryption).

SO I beleive is more about viewing security than "spying". Also it suggests that even if Sky abolish the "evil recording rental" here on a Sky+ or SkyHD (which is identical concept to Sky+ except with MPEG4 and HD support), then playback of FTA material, may never be possible without a signal.

This also is reason why a CAM is not forth comming for non-Sky PVRs, Sky would too easily lose control of the nuances of the system. No non-Sky PVR adds extra encryption to recording on the fly.

Ronan|Raven

Also just read in the paper, sky have 70,000 customers here that recieve some of the Sky package over UHF. Must be a cutdown version with just some of the basic channels.

DMC

It is. They only have one sports channel on UHF, whereas they have 2 or 3 Sky Sport branded channesl, and racing, ESPN and Rugby Channel on satellite.

Good news. They have Optus 1B back this morning, according to the website. They are in the process of uplinking again.

slegs

watty wrote:

The reason is quite simple. The viewing card is not really important during recording. It is what sub you have during playback that decides what the card will decode as during playback the card / cam system works as if it is a live signal.

can you record a channel you have not subscribed to in SKY+...subscribe at a later date and then watch on playback?

This would be useful for sky movies where you could subscribe for a short period and archive while subscribed

Mossy Monk

Mossy Monk wrote:

this is also the case for Sky+ here

Another stupid thing with sky plus is that if you want to watch something recorded off one of the movie channels(not just box office) and it has a 15 or above cert, you will have to put in your pin if you watch it before the watershed...

Even 12 certed tv programmes cannot be watched untill 6pm or so :rolleyes:

(unless you set a rule)

Mossy Monk

slegs wrote:

can you record a channel you have not subscribed to in SKY+...subscribe at a later date and then watch on playback

yes, yes you can

L1011

Apparently SKY NZ are now fitting all new installs and re-fitting all old installs with monobloc setups so that Optus C1 can be used next time B1 falls over....

rogue-entity

watty wrote:

The reason is quite simple. The viewing card is not really important during recording. It is what sub you have during playback that decides what the card will decode as during playback the card / cam system works as if it is a live signal.

But NDS/videoguard and some others use a SECOND stream of data to validate the card (you can change your sub level) and also to refesh "keys" or something. So the card/cam system can't run long (by design) without a live satellite signal. The box for security only records the the program stream.

On Sky+ here and EXTRA layer of encryption not used on live broadcast is added. The card checks live on air data that you have a valid sub for Sky+ still, it not it won't decrypt even the FTA channels recorded (that got the extra layer of encryption).

SO I beleive is more about viewing security than "spying". Also it suggests that even if Sky abolish the "evil recording rental" here on a Sky+ or SkyHD (which is identical concept to Sky+ except with MPEG4 and HD support), then playback of FTA material, may never be possible without a signal.

This also is reason why a CAM is not forth comming for non-Sky PVRs, Sky would too easily lose control of the nuances of the system. No non-Sky PVR adds extra encryption to recording on the fly.

I would say that the Sky Encryption system is a lot simpler then that. My theory is as follows. NDS uses DES Private/Public key encryption. The card contains a certain number of keys that are non-changable. This would be for security reasons. The card would also store its region code (again I would bet in non-changeable memory) and the channel IDs it is allowed to decode.

When you want to watch a channel, if the channels ID matches one on the card then the card will decode the channel, presumably information sent by the channel would tell the card which key to use to decode it. If not you get an error. In addition the channels region ID would also be checked.

I would assume that after a while the card "forgets" what channels it is authorised for and what prevents this is a "keep-alive" signal addressed to the card containing the channel IDs. These could be sent at any time though.

I would bet that Sky+ boxes check for an additional parameter on the card, the Sky Plus Sub. This is only checked when you do a live pause or go to play something back. I would assume that the box is programmed to only record from the EPG, so if the box lost the sat signal, it would not be able to check if the channel is on the EPG, so I would assume that if you recorded a channel that later went belly up, you would lose your recording.

JohnC.

Earthman wrote:

Another stupid thing with sky plus is that if you want to watch something recorded off one of the movie channels(not just box office) and it has a 15 or above cert, you will have to put in your pin if you watch it before the watershed...

How is this stupid? It's there to stop the kiddies watching post-watershed content pre-watershed. I don't find it inconveinent to input 4 numbers before partaking in such actions myself.

Tony

Ronan|Raven wrote:

Aye they were whining about it down here. It is affecting a lot of satellites the current solar activity a lot of the radio channels stopped broadcasting for a while.

Solar activity is very low at present, its at the bottom of its 11 yr cycle

watty

You are only guessing!

rogue-entity wrote:

I would say that the Sky Encryption system is a lot simpler then that. My theory is as follows. NDS uses DES Private/Public key encryption. The card contains a certain number of keys that are non-changable. This would be for security reasons. The card would also store its region code (again I would bet in non-changeable memory) and the channel IDs it is allowed to decode.

No, sky can change the region when you move and tell them. EVERYTHING in the card appears to be changeable.

rogue-entity wrote:

I would assume that after a while the card "forgets" what channels it is authorised for and what prevents this is a "keep-alive" signal addressed to the card containing the channel IDs. These could be sent at any time though.

It doesn't forget. The keys change. If card is not in use it misses getting updated so won't decode some channels till fresh keys arrive. Each channel would appear to have a separately delivered key.

rogue-entity wrote:

I would bet that Sky+ boxes check for an additional parameter on the card, the Sky Plus Sub. This is only checked when you do a live pause or go to play something back. I would assume that the box is programmed to only record from the EPG, so if the box lost the sat signal, it would not be able to check if the channel is on the EPG, so I would assume that if you recorded a channel that later went belly up, you would lose your recording.

Yes we already said this is the case. Yes you can only record OR play channels on the EPG. This is why Irish Sky+ subscribers are so irate about BBC3, BBC4 and all the ITV channels. They can watch but can't record.

I suggest we have *NO* more discussion on how Sky encryption might work or does work

I think the pitfalls of Sky+ (which is otherwise a great piece of kit) have been made clear.

SKY+ Limitations
* No recording / playback at all with out a current Sky+ sub (included in Higher / premium packs)
* You can only playback whichever channels viewable with your card on the EPG Live
* You can only record programs on the EPG
* You can only play if there is a signal
* If you remove the disk, even the FTA channels are encrypted and can't be read in a PC.

All the above apply to the SkyHD box, and in addition an HD sub is required:
* If your Sky HD box has only Sky+ sub and not SkyHD sub any HD recorded plays in SD
* If your SkyHD box has no SkyHD sub then all Live HD is shown in SD
* If it is possible to have SkyHD sub and no Sky+, the only Live HD and no SD or HD playback or recording.

The Sky HD box is from operational / subscription viewpoint an SKY+ box and a SKY HD decoder. Without any sub it would seem that even FTA HD (like BBC) may only be output in SD. I hope I'm wrong, but given the way Sky+ sub works and description of SkyHD pricing, I'm afraid I'm correct.