damn button

ocallagh

I think I broke boards with my previous post.. Mods- can you delete the other copy?

Fitz 100 game

I have 3900, average stack is about 5k. Table is playing tight. SB has called 2 button raises from Andy Black (who has since moved table). The SB lost both of those hands. BB is a total rock. I raised in the cut off and the button on the previous round, both uncontested.

Blinds 150-300 (about to go up in 3 mins)

Folded to me on the button. I have 7h8h.

Q1) Call/Fold/Raise/All In??
I made it 700. SB immediately announces raise.. but takes about 1 minute before he announced how much. He makes it 1550 in total. BB folds

Q2) What do you do? Fold/Call?
I called. Flop ThJd2h. SB announces all in.

Q3) Call/Fold
I called and lost.

How was my play in this hand?

cardshark202

ocallagh wrote:

Q1) Call/Fold/Raise/All In??
I made it 700. SB immediately announces raise.. but takes about 1 minute before he announced how much. He makes it 1550 in total. BB folds?

Its a push or fold situation here I think. I guess you could just raise to 900 or so but you're committing too many of your chips to a hand that can't really stand a re-raise. I prefer folding here but other than that I would push.

ocallagh wrote:

Q2) What do you do? Fold/Call?
I called. Flop ThJd2h. SB announces all in.

Now that you've raised so small I would probably fold here and wait for a better spot.

ocallagh wrote:

Q3) Call/Fold
I called and lost.

Now that you've seen a flop and its a great flop, this is a simple autocall imo.

roryc

1) I wouldn't normally raise with suited connectors, but if you feel its worth it I think 700 is the right bet.

2) After he has raised you, I would consider folding, as you are only in for 700. You are almost definitely behind, and if he has an overpair, you are drawing thin.

3) After he goes all in on the flop, you have no choice but to follow. You have almost half your stack in the middle, and you cant ask for a much better flop. No matter what he has, you have outs to win the hand.


Overall, I don't think your play was necessarily bad, the only thing I might have done differently was folded to the raise, and worked off the 3200 I had left, which is still a good stack. Once that flop comes though, my chips are going in either way

RoundTower

I would play the hand the same way. 700 is better than a more normal raise if the BB is really such a rock. I wouldn't be happy about calling the small reraise but the pot odds would be just too nice to pass up. Passing on the flop would be terrible.

De Deraco

as you and andy said at the table noel furlong had to call dave with all those outs.
and that sb made alot of loose calls, 2 against me, and he lucked out hitting trips each time.

cardshark202

RoundTower wrote:

I would play the hand the same way. 700 is better than a more normal raise if the BB is really such a rock. I wouldn't be happy about calling the small reraise but the pot odds would be just too nice to pass up. Passing on the flop would be terrible.

I don't like the idea of calling the re-raise even though the pot odds are very nice. The reason being we are pot-committing ourselves. If the flop is something like Q74r do we still call the all in? I think we are committed to. Thats why I prefer folding preflop to a re-raise.

RoundTower

cardshark202 wrote:

I don't like the idea of calling the re-raise even though the pot odds are very nice. The reason being we are pot-committing ourselves. If the flop is something like Q74r do we still call the all in?

Yeah definitely. But we fold if it comes KJ2 or something, even if we occasionally get bluffed off a hand with 6 outs. Folding to the reraise preflop would be my second choice but I wouldn't be happy whichever way it went.

Hectorjelly

I hate when opponents make small reraises like that from the blinds; its a mistake to fold to it, so if its a mistake to fold calling must cost them equity (esp considering we will nearly always be by far the better player and in position). But it also means there is a good chance we both get all our chips in the pot as a coinflip or close (as in this hand) which sucks really.

I think this hand plays itself bar preflop which is optional

MrPillowTalk

I probably play it the same way whole way except I probably make it 1k pre flop not that that would make any difference to the hand.

cardshark202

RoundTower wrote:

Yeah definitely. But we fold if it comes KJ2 or something, even if we occasionally get bluffed off a hand with 6 outs. Folding to the reraise preflop would be my second choice but I wouldn't be happy whichever way it went.

Thats the problem. We have to call all in on almost any flop that gives us outs. Like a K45 or AQ7 flop. Granted he may bluff his chips off with something like AK on a low board where we have top pair but I think once villian pushes we are probably calling with the worst of it.

If you want to raise preflop why not just push? Granted it seems a bit rash but we can't really stand a re-raise and we would rather take it down preflop given the size of our stack. I know that any hand that calls us will leave us in very bad shape unless its AK or AQ or something but I still think its better than getting involved in a raised pot for half our stack.

ocallagh

cardshark202 wrote:

Thats the problem. We have to call all in on almost any flop that gives us outs. Like a K45 or AQ7 flop. Granted he may bluff his chips off with something like AK on a low board where we have top pair but I think once villian pushes we are probably calling with the worst of it.

If you want to raise preflop why not just push? Granted it seems a bit rash but we can't really stand a re-raise and we would rather take it down preflop given the size of our stack. I know that any hand that calls us will leave us in very bad shape unless its AK or AQ or something but I still think its better than getting involved in a raised pot for half our stack.

I don't push pre-flop because I risk 3900 to win 450... I only wanted the blinds! Even if the SB calls, I fancy my chances of taking it down on the flop. I was't prepared for a min-raise.. and I hate them TBH.. I just don't know if it's the correct decision to call the min raise or not...

oh, and the SB had AhKh which was the last thing I wanted to see..:(

Daithio

De Deraco wrote:

as you and andy said at the table noel furlong had to call dave with all those outs.
and that sb made alot of loose calls, 2 against me, and he lucked out hitting trips each time.

He didn't have to call me at all. He was chip leader, I was second in chips. He'd put in 18k out of a 60k plus stack, and he's pretty much a 70 30 dog. He still has twice the average stack if he folds. I think he just didn't care and wanted to go home to be honest.

cardshark202

ocallagh wrote:

I don't push pre-flop because I will fold to an all-in. I only wanted the blinds! Even if the SB calls, I fancy my chances of taking it down on the flop. I was't prepared for a min-raise.. and I hate them TBH.. I just don't know if it's the correct decision to call the min raise or not...

I think this is one of the few times when open-limping on the button (even though I hate it) might just be the answer.

Pot odds dictate a call of the re-raise here but there are too many flops where we will either have 6 outs and fold or have 4 outs or less and call.

EDIT: My pushing suggestion was probably a bit obscene. I probably should stop typing while I think.

MrPillowTalk

I think pushing pre flop is a disaster play, what would we be saying if niall posted the hand and it read so I pushed 78 and sb called with AK, I for one would be posting why on earth push your whole stack in that spot.

If the sb has AK then I hate hate hate his pre flop min raise.

ocallagh

De Deraco wrote:

as you and andy said at the table noel furlong had to call dave with all those outs.
and that sb made alot of loose calls, 2 against me, and he lucked out hitting trips each time.

ps.. I think Daves situation was a bit different. Noel had 60k in chips with the average at 15k. I didn't totally agree with Andy's decision I started that conversation giving out about Noels hands.. but Andy kinda took over!

Hectorjelly

cardshark202 wrote:

I think this is one of the few times when open-limping on the button (even though I hate it) might just be the answer.

no

MrPillowTalk

cardshark202 wrote:

EDIT: My pushing suggestion was probably a bit obscene. I probably should stop typing while I think.

sorry shark was typing whilst you posted this

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

no

I wouldn't do it myself as I would almost always raise to around 800-900 in this case with any two on my button when its folded to me. But how bad is open-limping here?

EDIT: Just noticed my first post suggesting I would push here, what am I thinking!? I never push this spot with this hand. I think I need to sleep before I post any more contradictions or dumb thoughts. I think my head is all over the place. No more posting tonight for me.

Hectorjelly

Pushing here with 76s is bad, but not as bad as with AJ!