Irish Rail Student Fair

Tiesto

Basic Question.
Do you have to have the special Irish Rail student i.d to get the discount or is a normal college/uni i.d enough.
thanks

kaimera

Need the CIE card for rail travel.

College ID is a nono.

Tiesto

that is an absolute f*****g joke.

Forget them, ill stick with citylink...

Toy

It's not good that you have to buy it seperate but for about €14 you get half price (or that region) rail fair, not sure what city link are charging these days but it can work out well in the long run, and trains are just nicer to travel on. Although if you get the student travel card this side of September it expires at the end of December.

The collage id is enough for Bus Eireann though

Tiesto

its not really the 14 euro that bothers me. Yeah its an element but its just more hassle than anything else..
Like what is wrong with the Student Id's?

blu_sonic

bus eireann and kavanaghs take the student ID

Victor

Tiesto wrote:

Like what is wrong with the Student Id's?

Too many colleges / fake colleges / fake IDs.

John R

Tiesto wrote:

its not really the 14 euro that bothers me. Yeah its an element but its just more hassle than anything else..
Like what is wrong with the Student Id's?

The discount is much higer for rail fares, paying a one-off fee is hardly unreasonable.

None of the operators get subsidised for student travel, any discount at all is a bonus that the rest of us can't get so quit bitching.

Tiesto

John R wrote:

The discount is much higer for rail fares, paying a one-off fee is hardly unreasonable.

None of the operators get subsidised for student travel, any discount at all is a bonus that the rest of us can't get so quit bitching.

i can bitch if i want.
Free speech.
The few fake student id's about does not financially justify having to introduce their own..
Their only trying to get a little bit of money out of it themselves...
Its the hassle of having to fill in an application form and sending it off.
Thats what ****ty
damn Ireland is so behind in the times.

Agent Smith

That Id card is a Crock of Horse manure.... serriously, I bought one on monday Just to go to ennis, and now i have Yet ANOTHER thing to say my name and Where i go to college....


The ID thing isnt the only joke, CIE is a Joke, full stop.

bopper

Tiesto wrote:

its not really the 14 euro that bothers me. Yeah its an element but its just more hassle than anything else..
Like what is wrong with the Student Id's?

It's hardly a hassle. You can buy them from most student unions.

Pythia

My friend and I look quite similar so we're sharing my card.

Monty - the one and only

wrong board, moved to transport/commuting

ballooba

Where and when is this student fair you speak of, it sounds like a delightfully gay affair.

or did you mean student "fare"?

BendiBus

Tiesto wrote:

i can bitch if i want.
Free speech.

Bloody commie students :rolleyes:

The few fake student id's about does not financially justify having to introduce their own..
Their only trying to get a little bit of money out of it themselves...

And how the hell would you know that?

Its the hassle of having to fill in an application form and sending it off.
Thats what ****ty

Lazy sod. What are you studying? Nothing too strenuous I hope!

damn Ireland is so behind in the times.

dregin

I had to do a rush job on an I.D. in DCU last week to get the afternoon train to Belfast but it only took 5 minutes to fill out the form and get my pic taken and the card given to me.

It's well worth getting for the huge discounts tbh.

Tiesto

BendiBus wrote:

Bloody commie students :rolleyes:



And how the hell would you know that?



Lazy sod. What are you studying? Nothing too strenuous I hope!

i just had to say that, just with that topic posted " is free speech allowed on boards"

Because i have a cousin who has a senior position in Bus Eireann.

( I think i can riggle my way out of this one )
Well half the reason why im too lazy to wait for a crappy bus which never shows up half the time into town, get the forms,fill em in and send them off and then wait another age for a bus back out of town is cos im too busy with college. so there haha

What about this. When i was a student in Germany, all i had to do was bring my college registration form to one of the many outlets in the town selling these 'semester tickets'. 35 euro for 6 months and i could use the bus as much as i wanted in the local district. And i could you the trains to a certain extent too. On top of that, you could also use that ticket also to obtain discounts on long distance journeys
How easy is that! and thats bureaucratic Germany for ya!!

Tiesto

ballooba wrote:

Where and when is this student fair you speak of, it sounds like a delightfully gay affair.

or did you mean student "fare"?

Oh i didnt even realise.
Thanks for pointing that out.

MarkoP11

There is no obligation on IE (or DB, Bus Eireann or Connex/RPA) to offer a student fare, they receive no monies in refund from the state. None of the private operators offer a discount to my knowledge.

Consider yourself extremely extremely lucky.

Having spoken to senior IE managers they appear to welcome the student business since it provides a significant amount of passengers they have no intentions to restrict its availability.

There always has been a need for a separate ID card as far back as I can remember, it used to be issued through USIT it then changed to a third party under contract of IE and DB and the cost actually reduced and the card became a lot harder to forge. Unlike most semi state operations it appears to be quite efficient, all the universities bar Maynooth have on site offices which issue the card and take the required photo. None of the IT's have it yet but thats a matter for the local students union to attend to there constituents

At €12 a pop for a year (16 months in fact its Sept to Dec the following year) it is very very good value most can recoup its cost on fares in a single weekend. It is also accepted by Translink in Northern Ireland who incidentally have in place identical arrangements at similar cost.

There are data protection issues, as IE have no access to your personal information unless they issue the card that becomes important at two levels

1. Online booking/Ticket vending machines
There is a software update coming soon (I've been told) which will allow the machines to issue student tickets so the card number will have to go into the system or the card could be swiped as it has a magstrip it could of course then ask for the first three letters of your surname to validate things. You could see a similar set up for online sales where it would only issue a ticket if the details all match

2. Fraud
IE can't confiscate a student card issued by a college as its not there property thus they are powerless. Of course under the data protection act the college wouldn't release any details on the person on the card as its against the law.

Given the benefits, the fact the card costs less now than it used to and the ever increasing discounts available with it (HMV 10%) you have absolutely no right to complain. If non students actually found out what a sweet deal students could get there would be major trouble.

This is one of the very very few areas IE have done right,

paulm17781

MarkoP11 wrote:

all the universities bar Maynooth have on site offices

The Maynooth Students' Union handle it. They did two years ago anyway.

MarkoP11

Tiesto wrote:

( I think i can riggle my way out of this one )
Well half the reason why im too lazy to wait for a crappy bus which never shows up half the time into town, get the forms,fill em in and send them off and then wait another age for a bus back out of town is cos im too busy with college. so there haha

Man you are lazy

The form is available online http://www.studenttravelcard.ie/ so there is no need to go anywhere (link also on Irish Rails site, Dublin Bus and Luas sites), Galway station should have the form available also, given your profile says Galway NUIG can issue them on a while you wait basis and its not restricted to NUIG students

monument

much more then a card, it's a lifestyle.... :rolleyes:

http://www.studenttravelcard.ie/

"Express ID Centres"
http://www.studenttravelcard.ie/student-travelcard-colleges.asp

enterprise

Lets compare fares here:

A 5 Day Adult return to Cork: €59.00.

A monthly Adult return to Cork: €65.00.

A monthly Student return to Cork: €38.50.

To purchase a student travel card costs €12.00.

So for the first time user of a student travel card the cost would be €50.50. €8.50 cheaper than a adult 5 day return and €14.50 than a monthly return. After that the reductions are even greater - what are you whinging about?

MarkoP11

paulm17781 wrote:

The Maynooth Students' Union handle it. They did two years ago anyway.

Ain't on the list

EXPRESS PHOTO ID SERVICE is available at the following locations:
Trinity College, Student Union Centre.
University College Dublin, Old Students Union.
Dublin City University, Student Union.
Alan Hanna's Book Shop, Kevin Street, Dublin 2.
University College Cork, UCC Travel, Students Centre.
SAYIT Travel, 76 Grand Parade, Cork.
University College Limerick, Students Union.
NUI Galway, Students Union.

John R

enterprise wrote:

Lets compare fares here:

A 5 Day Adult return to Cork: €59.00.

A monthly Adult return to Cork: €65.00.

A monthly Student return to Cork: €38.50.

To purchase a student travel card costs €12.00.

So for the first time user of a student travel card the cost would be €50.50. €8.50 cheaper than a adult 5 day return and €14.50 than a monthly return. After that the reductions are even greater - what are you whinging about?

It boggles the mind really, the infinite capacity that some people have to whinge about everything; even moaning about the terrible imposition of saving money.

Get rid of student discounts altogether, that'll learn them.

neilled

MarkoP11 wrote:

There is no obligation on IE (or DB, Bus Eireann or Connex/RPA) to offer a student fare, they receive no monies in refund from the state. None of the private operators offer a discount to my knowledge.

Marko as a current student and one of the leechers on your own forums (sorry, don't do enough rail travel to justify being a member but any time i have its been a miserable experience, hence the browsing!) can say that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link - you should remove the fraudulent student arguement. There are probably quite a few studenttravel cards that are possesed by non students, the means of getting them are quite easy. Freshers week anyone?

MarkoP11

Its fairly tricky to get a card as a non student as the form has been be stamped (the stamp is over the photo) and countersigned by the student records people of your college. At the walk in centres they will need to see a valid student ID card and all the details have to match. Some will get through the net but its a lot more stringent than the past. It requires face to face contact somewhere in the chain. Clearly if you leave college mid year you beat the system but that appears to be accepted, they don't give you 4 year validity

Given all the spare time some students and the lack of beer money have they tend to come with with at times quite ingenuous ways of beating the system. Fake ID was always a classic revenue earning avenue, there was an attempt on the photocopied/printed tickets last year which IE and DB caught in a major operation which targeted specific stations and bus routes in Dublin, it was reported in the Indo http://unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1389085&issue_id=12419.

Imagine the ticketing system spotted that a certain ID card number had bought say 4 monthly tickets at different stations at the start of a certain month? Clearly suspect. That person is untraceable, no name, college etc no nothing unless the ID card was issued by the transport operator, the college won't release the personal information. Under the current scheme IE and DB could have that persons photograph circulated amongst staff.

Point is simple the end result of attempts to get around the system is higher prices for the honest majority, it could be that there is 0 fraud (highly unlikely) but the system is set up to make it difficult to defraud the system its very simple once it costs more to get around the measures in place than to do it honestly the system is sufficiently safe as there is no incentive.

End of the day be thankful there is a discount in place, stop moaning, grow up its called life you can't have it your way

neilled

Thats fair enough and I'm not complaining about the card as a concept (its just a bit odd that bus eireann reckons that college id's are fine ) but you can buy student tickets for DB at any shop without being asked for ID. Conductors are on buses ( i started college in dublin in 04 and have had 2 conductors check to ensure i had a travel card, there was another conductor and he just checked the ticket was in date.

The same applies for the Luas as well - you just buy the thing from the machine and write a random number. (speaking of which, shouldn't the smart card have the option of loading on luas only monthly tickets for students and regular travlers?)

Until the thing is backed up by enforcement then its pointless layer of bureacracy.

Tiesto

Are you not capable of reading John R and enterprise?
I said the money is hardly the problem.
Its having to send away.
I think the savings are excellent!!!
Ok ive done enough moaning for one day...
All im saying is i think it would be more efficient (both in time and costs) if they chose outlets in cities/towns to provide the card. Or even if the actual bus station provided on the spot i.ds. You just have to present your college i.d and your registration form..
In any bus station ive been in, the staff behind the counter never seem to be too busy. Maybe they could provide the service. They are getting paid either way. Might aswell maximise their use. Would probably sell a lot more i.d cards aswell and would increase the number of students using the trains.
I know many many students who use the Citylink bus in the dublin direction to go home at the weekends. Could be some potential there.

However, I didnt actually know that they have a web site with the application forms.
Never heard about it but that is helpful.

neilled

MarkoP11 wrote:

Its fairly tricky to get a card as a non student as the form has been be stamped (the stamp is over the photo) and countersigned by the student records people of your college. At the walk in centres they will need to see a valid student ID card and all the details have to match. Some will get through the net but its a lot more stringent than the past.

Marko, no offence man but you have too much faith in the sytem of checks actually working.............. Its easy to slip through the net. I dread to know how easy it was before!

Again the issue remains - why do bus eireann reckon that college id's are acceptable and the rest of cie don't?

Tiesto : Off to NUIG and get it done there. All you need is your student card and you'll get one issued on the spot for €14 - they charge €2 for taking the pic!

monument

neilled wrote:

Again the issue remains - why do bus eireann reckon that college id's are acceptable and the rest of cie don't?

Somebody made the point above that apparently the potential student savings on rail services are much larger then on bus.

neilled

But the bus is normally cheaper than rail anyway and in some cases the bus is as fast as rail due what i gather is the poor condition of irish track and rolling stock, thus offering no real advantages. Except a visit to a filthy toilet that doesn't work or a madly overpriced breakfast.

My trip on a sailrail offering from rosslare to fishguard confirmed this - i got a train (from the noise and description of it and what i gather here on the board it seems to be a 2900) on the way down. Of course this was during the irish ferries dispute so all the stena sailings were delayed and i had to get a bus on the way back up. This was during "boggers day out" (says me from fermanagh!) and i stood for 2/3's of the to allow an old lady a seatjourney. Having said that, i'm almost sure the bus was faster, if not it was close. I would imagine Bus Eireann operate under a different set of overheads and have a different "margin" that they operate under (more competition from private operators on certain routes?) - which may explain the discount % on rail.

As for me i don't have a choice, the railways west of the bann in the north were removed in the 50's - something that alot of people in dublin still don't seem to realise!

An earlier poster noted that €35 got him unlimited transport for the guts of 6 months in germany. A combimed bus and luas 30 day ticket costs €60! Never mind what my friend in canda is getting. The cost of public transport is a different matter.

I am greatful for the discounts (the hmv thing you can get on its own anyway) on Iarnrod Eireann, and Buseireann (don't need Dublin bus, i cycle most of the time) but until checks are in place to ensure that the system works and it is rolled out consistantly across different arms of CIE then it will be viewed as more pointless form filing for a card that does't do anything your current student card potentially could.

Victor

neilled wrote:

As for me i don't have a choice, the railways west of the bann in the north were removed in the 50's - something that alot of people in dublin still don't seem to realise!

Better tell the residents of Derry then.

neilled wrote:

An earlier poster noted that €35 got him unlimited transport for the guts of 6 months in germany. A combimed bus and luas 30 day ticket costs €60! Never mind what my friend in canda is getting. The cost of public transport is a different matter.

Did he mention students in Germany have to pay their own health insurance?

Tiesto

Victor wrote:

Better tell the residents of Derry then.

Did he mention students in Germany have to pay their own health insurance?

No he didnt mention that Victor. Can you not read either? And dont be looking outside the box because that can always be done.

craigybagel

Student return cork-dublin is €40 when you throw in the luas. Plus €12 one off fee for the student card. Bus eireann is €12, goes from a better location in both cities, has a better chance of a seat, and theyll take any student card. Think you can see why students get pissed off with the IE!

neilled

Victor wrote:

Better tell the residents of Derry then.

Did he mention students in Germany have to pay their own health insurance?

Ah victor come on, post the whole story!
With a basic net search i've found the following

On the basis that a short hop student ticket for dublin bus and rail is is €77 x 6 (6 months termtime) =€462 or a 30 day bus and luas is €64 x 6 =384, and the cost of health insurance taken from http://www.daad.de/deutschland/deutschland/leben-in-deutschland/04663.en.html
is €281 per semester our hypothetical student with their €35 six month pass is still better of in germany at the rate of €146 and €69........
Ps don't many students here fork out for VHI or bupa anyway?

The west of the bann thing was a typo (*hangs head in shame*), i've cousins in toome and friends in magee college i'm aware of where both are. Did i mention that the service between stroke city/lundyderry and belfast seems to have the axe constantly hanging over it? Its crud as well, don't know if they get the new NIE trains on that line but the old ones were from what i've heard terrible, i think most of them get the bus instead - goldliner isn't a bad service/

monument

craigybagel wrote:

Student return cork-dublin is €40 when you throw in the luas.

56.50 - single/day return/five day return
+0.95

62.50 - monthly return
+0.95

37.00 - student return
+0.95


Now, I'm I supposed to add these up in some kind of strange way which makes the others cheaper then the student return?

craigybagel wrote:

Plus €12 one off fee for the student card.

As said before, you'll make up for it and more in the savings from the first ticket.

craigybagel wrote:

Bus eireann is €12, goes from a better location in both cities, has a better chance of a seat, and theyll take any student card.

Looks like you found a near perfect service for yourself.

craigybagel wrote:

Think you can see why students get pissed off with the IE!

Why, because they give students nearly 20 euro off compaired to the single/day return/five day return?

craigybagel

Im not saying the student card isnt good value far from it €20 saving on a €12 card is great but why would students want to go through all the hassle of buying the ID card when Bus Eireannll take anything and cost a fraction of the price. I commute fortnightly between the two cities and while the train is a lot more comfortable and usually quicker, even paying student fare (i have the card) on the rare occasions i can afford to use it im still always left regretting the money id have saved on the bus. And im a trainspotter!

Student return Cork-Dublin including feeder bus/luas as of last thursday (last time i travelled by rail) was €40.50. And i think youll find most people would rather find themselves travelling from Parnell Place to O Connell Street (Dublin bound only) or Busaras than Glanmire Road to Heuston.

enterprise

craigybagel wrote:

Student return cork-dublin is €40 when you throw in the luas. Plus €12 one off fee for the student card. Bus eireann is €12, goes from a better location in both cities, has a better chance of a seat, and theyll take any student card. Think you can see why students get pissed off with the IE!

Umm 2 hour 45 min approx on the train compared to 4 hours + on a bus. I know which one I would take!

MarkoP11

This was discussed with IE management in Kildare last night and the position was quite simple

Card offers very good value for money
The level of discount is considerable
There are other discounts available with the card
If there was no student discount, student wouldn't travel and IE would lose passengers
Its cheaper now compared to the days USIT ran the scheme
There is a fraud issue

You cant argue that really, significant number of passengers get a good deal its a bit unfair on the rest but still its a business choice to offer a student price not a obligation so we should be thankfull it is offered at all

If you want to get the bus thats your right, but the bus is sometimes a very poor option, and if you want to get home for the weekend you don't want to hang around at least by train you have a table you can get some work done and it gets you there reasonably quickly

Thurles by train takes between 75 and 90 minutes by bus requires a change in Roscrea and can take 3 and a half hours.
Tralee is over 6 hours by bus its 4 by train
Westport is 3:30 to 4 by train its over 6 by bus
Cork is 2:40 to 3 hours by train its over 4 by bus

Its a free country you can walk

neilled

MarkoP11 wrote:

If there was no student discount, student wouldn't travel and IE would lose passengers

And this is what it boils down to at the end of the day - hook them now (or put them off perhaps). If IE didn't dangle the discount carrot they wouldn't get the custom. Cash is a big factor in a students life!

craigybagel

enterprise wrote:

Umm 2 hour 45 min approx on the train compared to 4 hours + on a bus. I know which one I would take!

Id take the train more often myself if i could but im just a poor student and €28 for 3 hours saved on a return trip............