brokeback/will &grace

metrovelvet

Question for gay men:

Does it bother you when straight men play homeosexuals? Most minority/marginalised groups want to be represented by people who are part of their community.

How do you feel about this or do you care?

Goodshape

Doesn't bother me at all. Never really though of it to honest.. Now that I do, I think it would bother me more if the only roles avaliable to gay men were to play gay men.

I can understand why a black man would want a black character to be played by a blank man, rather than a white guy in makeup, but sexual preference is not the same thing imho. There's not necessarily any physical or asthetic difference between gay and straight people.

Plus Jake Gyllenhaal is hot, and if he wants to play a gay guy, all the better

damien

metrovelvet wrote:

Most minority/marginalised groups want to be represented by people who are part of their community.

Damn, really? Never got the memo.

Boston

i'm remined of minstrel shows. A black character really does have to be black and so forth, but I really don't mind who plays gay characters, once their not cringe worthy. Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger did a really good job, and I completely connected with them. I think people might be a bit shocked that some straights can "get where we're coming from" so well.

azezil

I've no issue with it either, all I care about is the quality of their work, not who / what they are or where they come from.

Goodshape wrote:

Plus Jake Gyllenhaal is hot, and if he wants to play a gay guy, all the better

Generally I'd agree but not in Brokeback

damien

It's not who plays the gay characters more than it is how they're represented in film or TV. I'm much happier seeing the way gay men are represented in Brokeback Mountain compared to the way gay characters are represented in Will and Grace. Two men kissing twice in eight years of the show? Gay men aren't slutty and self-obsessed like Jack. *looks about* Not all Gay men are slutty and self-obsessed.

MicraBoy

Generally I'd agree but not in Brokeback

Mmmmmmm lovely moustache :eek:

Stark

metrovelvet wrote:

Does it bother you when straight men play homeosexuals?

Yes, I hate seeing actors pretending to be something they're not.
</sarc>

carbonkid

It doesnt matter if they're straight or not...theyre actors. Will & Grace pisses me off though for creating now what most the general public conceive gay people to me like...that and its a sh*t comedy anyway!:p

Btw when buying tickets for brokeback mountain did anyone else have to stop themselves before accidently saying "two for bareback mountian please"?

moridin

Nope. And Rupert Everett pisses me off because he plays nothing but gay men.

Boston

carbonkid, yea. In fact for ages i couldn't think of the actual name. I was like "is it mountain, maybe it's bareback mounthing".

Btw, i was readign some ****e gay net mag, and the producers of will & grace where/are trying to get the two lads to do a camio where they kiss. they would play to gay cowboys. Words cannot descrive how weak that would be. The producers would try and try to build up "the kiss", like jesus you have Heath barebacking Jake with nothing more then some spit in the film, a kiss is going to be pretty weak.

damien

"Two for the gay cowboys please"

rsynnott

What really bothers me is when non-murderers play the roles of murderers in films. It's a disgrace!

Rev Hellfire

Maybe the issue is straight script writer’s writing gay characters and the visa versa.
Surely the actor is largely portraying the role as written. Yes we'll allow for some interpretation but the script writer is the main force.

Boston

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Maybe the issue is straight script writer’s writing gay characters and the visa versa.
Surely the actor is largely portraying the role as written. Yes we'll allow for some interpretation but the script writer is the main force.

Writers write what they think their target audience will find funny. Nobody ever claimed will and grace was aimed at the gays.

Hmm_Messiah

Is there a Straight thread where we can ask are all the straight folk bothered by the gay guys playing straight roles, on and off the set ?

and now a totally unrelated quote for all those film buffs (I would say Ironic but then loads will post that ironic means something else)

Verbal: "What the cops never figured out, and what I know now, was that these men would never break, never lie down, never bend over for anybody. Anybody. "

damien

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

Is there a Straight thread where we can ask are all the straight folk bothered by the gay guys playong straight roles, on and off the set ?

The majority of gay hollywood is closeted. You only have the camp as Christmas ones and the older ones like Mckellen who are out. No action star has ever been gay...

Hmm_Messiah

damien.m wrote:

The majority of gay hollywood is closeted. You only have the camp as Christmas ones and the older ones like Mckellen who are out. No action star has ever been gay...

yea, as in

gay guys playing straight roles, on and off the set ?

Boston

oh i know that film, is it the usual suspects?

metrovelvet

Well film is a directors medium not a writers one but thats a good point about the Will & Grace audience [is it for women who keep falling in love with gay men? ].

The closeted gay actors in hollywood who play straight men... yes deserves a thread. Does anyone else think George Clooney is gay?

Boston

It's a bad habit to get into speculating about peoples sexuality.

metrovelvet

Why? We have to speculate all the time. I would think gay men of all people know that.

Boston

People don't like it when you speculate about their sexuality.

metrovelvet

Practically speaking you have to do it. Before you start flirting with someone or ask them out dont you have to figure out whether or not they are gay or straight? Or in the glass closet. Its not as if its polite to ask.

Boston

Theres a big difference between "are you gay". And "Omg he's soooo gay, and him,him,him and him, there all gay, cause their cute". Yea know, like?

metrovelvet

What?

As a straight woman believe me I have to do a lot of speculating. It's not rude, its just how it is. And from what Ive gathered, outside of explicitely gay establishements it can be difficult for gay men also. The speculation/decoding is part of life now.

You cant ask because - what if your wrong? Or they havent come out yet?

Dudess

Can anyone think of gay actors/actresses who are out, playing straight characters? I know Ian McKellen played Profumo in Scandal, but was he out at the time? I'm sure Rupert Everett has played the role of a heterosexual man. The Comfort of Strangers I think. Again, though, I don't know if he was out at the time.
The thing about Brokeback Mountain is that Ennis, Heath Ledger's character has never been attracted to a man until he meets Jack, so it's not a case of a straight man playing a gay man. It's more complex than that. The sexuality of Jack is pretty ambiguous too, although it's likely he's gay and he marries just to go with society's flow.

I think the Will & Grace thing is hilarious. I suspect all it's doing is riding (excuse pun) on all the publicity which has nothing to do with the film's actual content (the "gay cowboy movie" and so on). I would think it's kind of a two fingers to all of that misinformed nonsense (well, I'd hope so). Would the writers be that cynical?

damien

Actually they both had been with men before according to the book and Ennis sure knew what to do with some spit...

Dudess

damien.m wrote:

Actually they both had been with men before according to the book and Ennis sure knew what to do with some spit...

I beg to differ. In the short story, when it gets to the first time they have sex, it goes along the lines of "nothing Ennis had done before, but no instruction manual needed". Later when they're having a conversation in the motel, Ennis says he had never thought about "doing it with a guy before" and he liked "doing it with women". There's no mention in the short story of Jack being with men before Ennis either, but it's likely he has been.

Boston

metrovelvet wrote:

What?

As a straight woman believe me I have to do a lot of speculating. It's not rude, its just how it is. And from what Ive gathered, outside of explicitely gay establishements it can be difficult for gay men also. The speculation/decoding is part of life now.

You cant ask because - what if your wrong? Or they havent come out yet?

Theres a thread on this forum, not more then a couple thread down about a kid whose's worried about rumors circulating his school about his sexuality. When gay/bi people start speculating openly about others peoples sexuality it only makes it more difficult for people to come out. I find it very annoying when I hear "he's definitely gay" from someone who hardly knows the person in question. When ever I'm asked I just reply with "could be", or "maybe". People who will brand someone else's sexuality as if liking the cock made them experts on sexuality, are tools. What do you expect anyway, beyond camp = gay, builder/sports type = straight.

Dudess: isn't there a book now, nto jsut a short story?

Goodshape

LiouVille wrote:

When gay/bi people start speculating openly about others peoples sexuality it only makes it more difficult for people to come out.

Starting rumours is one thing, but surly it's more of an issue when straight people start speculating needlessly (just for the sake of gossip). I'd find it quite difficult (virtually impossable infact) to chat up, or anything similar, a guy in a 'straight bar' because of the taboo of openly questioning someones sexuality... you never ask you never know.

People should learn to be more comfortable with their sexuality and not so easily offended by such speculation, imho. And I'd include myself in that.

And speculating anything about celebraties is just a low form of entertainment. Heaven forbid their prestine image should be 'tainted' by it.

Dudess

LiouVille wrote:

Dudess: isn't there a book now, nto jsut a short story?

I'm not sure. I know there's a "from story to screenplay"-type publication doing the rounds and it has the short story and an essay by Annie Proulx. If there is a full-length novel based on Brokeback Mountain though, I want it! If anyone knows whether this is the case and if there is a link to info, could you please post it up? Cheerz.

Boston

Goodshape wrote:

People should learn to be more comfortable with their sexuality and not so easily offended by such speculation, imho. And I'd include myself in that.

I think you should be more comfortable with a four way involing two midgets from poland and their donkey. What is with this telling people what they shouldn't and shouldn't be ok with. It's someones private life, bad form to speculate, and when some who is gay, says someone else is gay, more people believe it.

Dudess, I'm pretty certain i've seen the book in waterstones.

metrovelvet

Your telling people what they should and shouldnt speculate about.

OK then. So I guess you advise to just work on the assumption that everyone is straight?

Goodshape

LiouVille wrote:

I think you should be more comfortable with a four way involing two midgets from poland and their donkey.

Ah, but I'm perfectly comfortable in telling you that I'm not into that

Now, if you're going to start a rumour to that effect behind my back, then that's a different story.

Boston

metrovelvet wrote:

Your telling people what they should and shouldnt speculate about.

OK then. So I guess you advise to just work on the assumption that everyone is straight?

How about not assuming people are gay/straight/bi? I'm not talking about situations where people are out on the pull, I'm talking about what goodshape describes as starting rumors behind peoples back. I'm talking about the people who come out with "I know hes gay, he has to be, because my gaydar is super". It's bull.

metrovelvet

Thats not speculating. Thats advertising.

If I speculate about my ridiculously hot dance teacher,who it seems all 25 women in the class lust after, and I say to my friend "I cant tell if he's gay or not." I cant see whats wrong with that.

But if I go around telling people hes gay thats more than speculating.