Intonation Question.

Quattroste

I changed the strings tonight on my Tokai Les Paul and thought I would have a go at setting the intonation! So I tune up the 6th E string open. Then I fret the twelfth and strike the string. Its sharp so I adjust the tuneomatic bridge. Retune the open E because it is now sharp. Refret the twelfth etc and so on until I have the correct intonation. Only thing is I now have the adjustment screw as far back as possible and its still sharp on the twelfth fret Its the same on the G string aswell.

What does this mean? Do I have the bridge too low? Do I need to adjust the truss rod? Am I mental?

68 lost souls

Dont touch the truss rod unless your sure youv got some bow in the neck. If the neck is straight dont touch it. Thats all I can say for deffinate, sorry I cant help more.

Quattroste

68 lost souls wrote:

Dont touch the truss rod unless your sure youv got some bow in the neck. If the neck is straight dont touch it. Thats all I can say for deffinate, sorry I cant help more.

Thanks dude but I wouldn't touch the truss rod unless I had someone with me who knew what they were doing

Johnny Storm

I wouldn't go near the truss rod either as long as the guit is playing all right. I mean as long as the action is where you want it and the notes are ringing out OK. I don't see that the truss rod or the bridge height should have any real bearing on intonation.

As regards the intonation, I'm grasping at straws - could it be a dodgy packet of strings? Did you stretch them out fully?
If all else fails maybe you could go up a gauge?

Take a look at this page esp the last paragraph. May or may not apply depending which way your bridge is in. Note how he says this is rare. I'd try new strings (maybe a different brand) before doing this.

Doctor J

Move the pickups away from the strings. Seriously.

Quattroste

I'll try that Doc. When I changed the first set of strings I lowered the bridge and the strings were actually hitting the pickups so I lowered them a bit but they could be still too high. Will do that this evening and check again.

Doctor J

It happened on my strat. The pull of the magnets was affecting the vibration of stings and making it go sharp as it decayed. Totally confusing initially

Quattroste

OK tried that and it allowed me to get the perfect intonation on strings 2,3,5,6 but the 1st E and 4th G strings are still sharp. Another thing I can't understand is if you take the 5th B and 6th E strings. The adjustment screw on the B string is practically at the back of the bridge where as the E string below is at the front of the bribge??

Doctor J

Might be a nut issue?

Maybe try it with a capo on the 1st fret and play the harmonic on the 13th fret.

Quattroste

I'll try that Doc. The funny thing, is that it never bothered me if the guitar wasn't intonated before I found out what intonation was

Doctor J

Meh. If the tuner can hear it but you can't, I wouldn't worry about it.

NeMiSiS

"So I tune up the 6th E string open. Then I fret the twelfth and strike the string."
This is wrong, you should tune the string to E, then check the harmonic off the 12th fret, and then the actual fretted note.
TK

Quattroste

NeMiSiS. I did try this and the harmonic was spot on, but the fretted 12th was sharp? Whats that all about? I'll give it another try tonight and let you know the results. I didn't have this trouble with the Eggle or Strat!

Briony Noh

If the fretted note is sharper than the harmonic at the 12th, it can also mean the bridge is a little too high. Have you cleaned the bridge lately? It can get gungy undter there sometimes. Finally, try reversing the saddle to get a little bit more backward movement.

I don't think you need to worry about the difference in bridge positions between adjacent strings, they're different thicknesses for one thing and, depending on the quality of manufacture, there's no guarantee that all the strings in the set meet the same standards.

What a larf it'd be if next time you string up, the intonation is all over the shop again.

Best of luck

deaddonkey

it could be that your action is set far too high

it could be a loosely cut nut slot (either too wide or too high or too low)

have you reversed the saddle so that you get the max amount of string length? sometimes you need to flip them around on a ToM bridge so that the taller flat end is at the back of the bridge.

are you using very light strings?

it could be that a proper setup by someone who knows what they're doing could be very beneficial

feylya

It's not wrong to check the intonation by fretting the 12th but it's also not wrong to check it by using the 12th harmonic. You should actually try a new pack of strings. Sometimes it's the actual string that throws off the intonation.

I'm not sure about getting a "proper setup" done. You'll never learn that way If you can't hear it and it's only a couple of cents off, I really wouldn't worry about it too much.

Doctor J

The way I do it is to check the 12th fret vs the 12th fret harmonic. That way you're comparing what should be exactly the same note since the harmonic is always going to be exactly the same as the open note (unless something is affecting the vibration of the string - eg pickups).

feylya

Just check the open vs the 12th fret vs the 12th harmonic vs the 24th fret vs the 24th harmonic. Then you'll know it's in tune

Quattroste

OK Thread sum up!!

1) They were new strings (Gibson brite wire 10's).
2) Its only a little bit off and I don't have a trained enough ear to hear it so its fine.
3) I'll try again on the next set of new strings.

Thanks for all the advice.