Protein Shakes And Supplements?

nick23

I know this will make me sound like a complete novice for this but keep in mind, thats exactly what i am.

I was just wondering what exactly the advantages of taking protein/whey suppliments and protein shakes are and what exactly they do/enable you to do. I did a search and looked around a few other threads but they were all very general and didnt really tell me too much.

daveirl

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nick23

But why do u need so much protein in ur diet? What does it do for you or what are the advantages of having loads in your diet?

Smellyirishman

Protein is the resource your body uses to build muscle.(basically)

nick23

And if u dont take protein suppliments wen ur doing weights is it just harder 2 gain muscle?

Smellyirishman

If your body does not have the resources to build muscle... then it can't build muscle (think of a builder without bricks, he can show us that crack and mix some cement, but ain't nothing gonna happen! (although that is sometimes the case even when they have bricks!)).

You don't NEED to take supplement to gain muscle, you just need to have enough protein in your body, as was said though, that is very hard/expensive to do without supplements. (again, this is a basic explaination)

nick23

The thing is though ive already got a bit of body fat. (im not amazingly fat though) Could i just build on that instead of starting on protein.

Aswell what exactly is the difference between protein and creatine?

daveirl

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nick23

Trust me the simpler the better! Thanks!

I want 2 start on protein now to build muscle so any reccomendations on which to go for, dosages, etc

amazingemmet

I like EAS tastes really good, good amino acid profile too.
Aim to take in 1.5-2g per lb of body weight a day, make sure your diet is up to scratch first or the protein shake will do jack.

nick23

I was looking at Pro X on fitness Ireland because its selling for quite a good price. How bout that?

Smellyirishman

Or PM easygainer, he does good deals, try some Optimum Nutrition and get a shaker. Mixes easy and tastes good.

daveirl

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Reyman

daveirl wrote:

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amazingemmet wrote:

Aim to take in 1.5-2g per lb of body weight a day, make sure your diet is up to scratch first or the protein shake will do jack. !

Who's right ?

g'em

It's 1.4-1.8g/kg body weight/day compared with the RDA of 0.75g/kg body weight/day for the general population.

Consuming more than 1.8g protein /kg bw/day will not make you stronger.
Dons, B.K. et al.(1979) 'The effect of weight lifting exercise related t muscle fibre compposition and muscle cross-sectional area in humans'. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 40, 95-106.

Stength athletes consuming either 1.4g/kg bw/day or 2.3g/kg bw/day experienced non-significant differences in muscle mass, and those with the higher protein intake made no further benefits.
MacDougall, J.D. et al. (1980) 'Muscle ultrastructure characteristics of elite powerlifters and bodybuilders.' Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2, 131.

Easygainer

g'em wrote:

It's 1.4-1.8g/kg body weight/day compared with the RDA of 0.75g/kg body weight/day for the general population.

Consuming more than 1.8g protein /kg bw/day will not make you stronger.
Dons, B.K. et al.(1979) 'The effect of weight lifting exercise related t muscle fibre compposition and muscle cross-sectional area in humans'. European Journal of Applied Physiology, 40, 95-106.

Stength athletes consuming either 1.4g/kg bw/day or 2.3g/kg bw/day experienced non-significant differences in muscle mass, and those with the higher protein intake made no further benefits.
MacDougall, J.D. et al. (1980) 'Muscle ultrastructure characteristics of elite powerlifters and bodybuilders.' Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 2, 131.

I disagree. Protein is unique in a few ways.

First off, to reach your calorific goals, it is preferable, for muscle building and staying lean, to use protein. You're guaranteed to get your nutrients for muscle but in addition, protein has four times the thermic effect of carbohydrates and fats - that is, you use four times as much energy digesting protein as you do carbs or fats, which means you can eat more, have a higher metabolism which means more muscle less fat.

Secondly, there is a difference between what the body needs to grow and what will make the body grow. Force feeding your body protein means that your body cannot but grow. Moreover, this force feeding with protein as opposed to carbs or fats keeps you lean.

To break down that point, taking enough protein to replenish your supplies is not sending a message to your body to grow. You have to work constantly against homeostasis in trying to build muscle, which means not only lifting progressively heavier but also having so much protein available that your body will have to grow.

I could go on and on, but the proof is in the pudding. I eat 600-700g protein per day. It's expensive, time consuming and difficult but I keep growing and have stayed far leaner than when on similar calories but with far higher carbs.

Note: I'm 110kg now, the progress continues - also back to having 48" chest!

g'em

Easygainer wrote:

I disagree. Protein is unique in a few ways.

First off, to reach your calorific goals, it is preferable, for muscle building and staying lean, to use protein. You're guaranteed to get your nutrients for muscle but in addition, protein has four times the thermic effect of carbohydrates and fats - that is, you use four times as much energy digesting protein as you do carbs or fats, which means you can eat more, have a higher metabolism which means more muscle less fat.

I agree completely. I totally advocate consuming high proportions of your daily calorific requirement protein sources for the reasons you've stated- it requires more energy to burn, cannot be stored as fats etc.

Easygainer wrote:

Secondly, there is a difference between what the body needs to grow and what will make the body grow. Force feeding your body protein means that your body cannot but grow. Moreover, this force feeding with protein as opposed to carbs or fats keeps you lean.

but you can only force feed your body so much, and all I was saying is that research suggests that there is a threshold as to how much protein your body can use. Over and above around 1.8g/ kg bw /day you will make no greater gains. Excess protein gets excreted, pure and simple. And there are links to renal failure in people who have already weakened renal function. But for the vast majority of us, the un-needed protein literally gets pi**ed away.

That's all I was saying in the post and responding to the previous one!!!

t-ha

Easygainer wrote:

I disagree. Protein is unique in a few ways.

First off, to reach your calorific goals, it is preferable, for muscle building and staying lean, to use protein. You're guaranteed to get your nutrients for muscle but in addition, protein has four times the thermic effect of carbohydrates and fats - that is, you use four times as much energy digesting protein as you do carbs or fats, which means you can eat more, have a higher metabolism which means more muscle less fat.

Secondly, there is a difference between what the body needs to grow and what will make the body grow. Force feeding your body protein means that your body cannot but grow. Moreover, this force feeding with protein as opposed to carbs or fats keeps you lean.

To break down that point, taking enough protein to replenish your supplies is not sending a message to your body to grow. You have to work constantly against homeostasis in trying to build muscle, which means not only lifting progressively heavier but also having so much protein available that your body will have to grow.

I could go on and on, but the proof is in the pudding. I eat 600-700g protein per day. It's expensive, time consuming and difficult but I keep growing and have stayed far leaner than when on similar calories but with far higher carbs.

Note: I'm 110kg now, the progress continues - also back to having 48" chest!

What do you think of Layne Norton's assertion that this forcing an increase in protein synthesis can be achieved by taking in additional leucine only? I guess that would be expensive too but easier to eat??

RonanC

t-ha wrote:

What do you think of Layne Norton's assertion that this forcing an increase in protein synthesis can be achieved by taking in additional leucine only? I guess that would be expensive too but easier to eat??

You can buy a half-kilo Leucine for $15 here or a kilo here for £23.99 if you don't want to shop outside the EU.

Reyman

Easygainer wrote:

I could go on and on, but the proof is in the pudding. I eat 600-700g protein per day.

Are you serious ! How can you take that much? I read somewhere that each gram of protein contains 4 calories so you're consuming close on 3,000 calories a day just from protein !

As was said already there's no benefit to be gained from going beyond 1.8gm per kilo of bodyweight. In your case this limit is 198 grams of protein.

Obviously you're the exception but are there not risks in over indulgence in protein? What are the consequences in the long haul?

g'em

Reyman wrote:

Obviously you're the exception but are there not risks in over indulgence in protein? What are the consequences in the long haul?

There's no real damage done, except to your wallet. In people who have already existing weakened renal function it can provoke renal (kidney) failure and processing all that excess waste can put a strain on the liver, but as along as the protein is eaten as part of a balanced diet the average joe bloggs should be fine. Excess protein becomes just that- excess excreted out as waste.

Easygainer

t-ha wrote:

What do you think of Layne Norton's assertion that this forcing an increase in protein synthesis can be achieved by taking in additional leucine only? I guess that would be expensive too but easier to eat??

As odd as this may seem coming from someone who sells supplements, I constantly advocate getting protein from meat sources. Especially red meat! I've already detailed why I advocate high protein and my logic is fairly simple that if you have too much, you can never have too little to grow.

I'm fairly extreme with 600+g of protein, but many people on the same program who weigh less take at least 400g. The reason I take higher amounts is because I believe I am fairly carb sensitive for gaining weight so I prefer more cals to come from fats and proteins.

With reference to the leucine, I don't see why one amino acid would be preferable to a range of aminos. Maybe BCAAs (which include leucine) could be considered preferable to another combination of aminos but there's no substitute for stuffing your face with meat...

If people experiment with their diets, which I have done many times, they tend to figure out what their bodies respond to. If you up your protein I guarantee you'll see changes, then determine what suits you.

O/T: I think the kidney thing is blown out of all proportion by people who think you can't take more than 30g protein at a time... My friend, who's a doctor, raised this issue with me and I asked him one simple question - have you ever seen someone die of eating too much protein? The answer was, of course, no. People with renal dysfunction may, of course, find it hard to utilise proteins efficiently - indeed Flex Wheeler was urinating ridiculously high levels of protein because he was heading towards kidney failure, but these are generally genetic conditions, and if you don't have them, you really don't have to worry...

The worst things you can do for your kidneys are taking pain killers, especially OTC ones. They are a killer, literally. So many people take nurofen and paracetamol for every little pain, and eventually, just to get by. This is VERY dangerous and in only a couple of years (not a very long time if you think about it) can cause COMPLETE kidney failure. This has happened people who started off with perfectly healthy kidneys.

The other killer is water retention (syptom) and diuretics(cause), which tend to go hand in hand when they are misused and abused. Fortunately most don't experience this, but many top bodybuilders are ruining their health this way to HAVE to get in shape.

nick23

Another question; Do all these diet tablets such as Lean System 7 work or what exactly do they do? And can anyone reccomend a good one to help reduce/ burn body fat?

nick23

Anyone?

daveirl

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nick23

Thats all i wanted to know.

Thanks!

t-ha

RonanC wrote:

You can buy a half-kilo Leucine for $15 here or a kilo here for £23.99 if you don't want to shop outside the EU.

Cheers Ronan

Easygainer wrote:

With reference to the leucine, I don't see why one amino acid would be preferable to a range of aminos. Maybe BCAAs (which include leucine) could be considered preferable to another combination of aminos but there's no substitute for stuffing your face with meat...

I think the general jist of it was that the body has eveloved to use L-leucine as a marker of total protein intake as it is the amino that gets into the bloodstream most fully. The idea then is that additional leucine would cause the body to increase protein synthesis (which would then obviously need to be facilitated by having a full spectrum of aminos available).