Ultra Agressive Play

Benglian · 21-03-2006 6:43pm #1

I posted this as a reply under another thread but I thought I might get more comments if I gave it a thread of it's own....

I have just started playing NLH in the last week. Now not that I am new to poker but I always ALWAYS play PLO, and make money at it. I just never had the patience for NLH.
But the other day I (was drunk and) tried the short stack method (mentioned in another post a while ago), sitting down at a (9/10? handed)£1/£2 table (on Interpoker) with £50, waiting for a premium hand and then just going all in.
I got called, doubled up but then the drink licked in.
I started playing very Loose/Aggressive, raising/re-raising with a large number of hands and Check Raising allin w all my draws etc.
It was fun! And I got my £50 to £250 before doing it all, then my next £50 i got up to £450 before losing two £200 53/47 shots (pre-flop). Well eventually I ended the session down £200 and kicking myself the next morning for not quitting ahead.
But the next day I thought, just maybe if I stayed sober I could pull it off.
So I tried it. And I did. Pull it off that is. Sat down at a table with mostly the same players and was very LAA.
I will raise first in w any two suited cards, any two pictures, any A... any two connectors, and call a (pottish) Raise. out of the blinds with nearly any two.
Then the tricky part...getting called. It is very VERY difficult to play the flops. Deciding whether to continuation bet, or check Raise, or just check fold.
But I have started playing the other persons likely holding and NOT my cards.
You definately CANNOT multi table at this. It is very draining and quite stressful (when you have just check raised for all your stack with nothing), but ultimately FUN. I cannot possibly play Tight enough to make money that way, but if you sit on a full ring game with a flop % of 25-32% it can be very rewarding playing LAA.
Poker tracker says I am LAA with a VP$I of 38.2 and a PFR of 20.59.
The beauty of it is the others at the table have NO IDEA what I am holding, it could literally be anything.
I have stacked people raising first in w 53s, R and then calling a RR w 74s.
I was PFR and someone laid down JJ on a AA7 flop just an hour ago to my check raise when i was holding 83s..
Then there are the times when you check R with your draw and hit.
And of course I get paid off when I do have a hand!
I sort of got the idea from page 42 of Harrington 1 when he describes the Super-Aggressive style.
I only have 600 hands under my belt playing this way so maybe it's just luck that I am up $1000 with 8/12 winning sessions.

I am very excited about this as four tabling at PLO was getting monotonous, and I can play other sites now too. Previosuly I stuck to Stars because of the PLO action, but I have had good results on UB, Interpoker, and Party playing this way.

I know I will get told to report back in 10,000 hands time but just the mere fact that I am enjoying NLH means I couldn't wait that long to discuss it.

Has anyone else ever tried this approach, and what are your comments on it('besides the 'It's too early to tell!' ones)?

Hectorjelly · 21-03-2006 6:59pm

Benglian wrote:

report back in 10,000 hands

The more aggressive you are, especially in bad or marginal spots, the higher your varience will be. Super aggros will tend to win big and lose big, but most end up busto.

I play more aggressively than any other winner at 3/6 or 2/4 (that ive played a lot with) on Tribeca and my PFR is only a little bit more than half of yours.

The more aggro you play the more fun it is; good luck

Benglian · 21-03-2006 7:26pm

I see what you mean about variance Hector....

Game #1957677303: Hold'em NL ($1/$2) - 2006/03/21 - 14:18:09 (ET)
Table "TampTamp" Seat 7 is the button.
Seat 1: _skippy_ ($160 in chips)
Seat 2: Doisneau ($44 in chips)
Seat 3: gangrene ($276.25 in chips)
Seat 4: saomo ($196 in chips)
Seat 5: Kdx200e1 ($108 in chips)
Seat 6: TommyLee ($36 in chips)
Seat 7: Brantley ($377.25 in chips)
Seat 8: MOOSEHEAD ($192 in chips)
Seat 9: gamma747 ($120 in chips)
Seat 10: sryJack ($300.25 in chips)
MOOSEHEAD: posts small blind $1
gamma747: posts big blind $2

HOLE CARDS

dealt to Doisneau [5s 4s]
sryJack: folds
Doisneau: raises to $8
gangrene: folds
saomo: calls $8
Kdx200e1: folds
TommyLee: folds
Brantley: folds
Brantley sits out
MOOSEHEAD: folds
gamma747: folds

FLOP

[6c 3s 2h]
Doisneau: bets $6
saomo: raises to $18
Doisneau: raises to $36 and is all-in
saomo: calls $18

TURN

[6c 3s 2h][6d]

RIVER

[6c 3s 2h 6d][Qh]

SHOW DOWN

Doisneau: shows [5s 4s] (A Straight, Six high)
saomo: shows [Qd Qc] (A Full House, Queens full of Sixes)
saomo collects $88 from Main pot

SUMMARY

Total pot $91 Main pot $88 Rake $3
Board [6c 3s 2h 6d Qh]
Seat 2: Doisneau showed [5s 4s] and lost
Seat 3: gangrene folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: saomo showed [Qd Qc] and won ($88) with A Full House, Queens full of Sixes
Seat 5: Kdx200e1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TommyLee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Brantley (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: MOOSEHEAD (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: gamma747 (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: sryJack folded before Flop (didn't bet)
****HAND ENDS****

FastMachine · 21-03-2006 7:28pm

Ultra aggressive = ultra variance. I'm not a big fan of variance so this style isn't for me. I tried it a few times about 8 months ago when I was playing lower stakes and had the same kind of results as yourself, make alot of money really quickly, and loose it just as quickly. It was great fun though! The thing about this style is it's easy for a good player to beat if you just pick your spots and let the ultra aggressive player, commonly known as the 'maniac', bluff off his stack.
Good luck with it though and let us know how you get on with it.

Benglian · 21-03-2006 7:35pm

But then I outdrew the same guy twice!

HOLE CARDS

dealt to Doisneau [7d 8d]
Doisneau: raises to $8
pedropedr: folds
saomo: folds
chingy213: folds
TommyLee: folds
Brantley: folds
MOOSEHEAD: folds
gamma747: folds
sryJack: raises to $20
Doisneau: calls $12

FLOP

[8h 4s 6h]
sryJack: bets $28
Doisneau: raises to $47.75 and is all-in
sryJack: calls $19.75

TURN

[8h 4s 6h][5c]

RIVER

[8h 4s 6h 5c][Qd]

SHOW DOWN

Doisneau: shows [7d 8d] (A Straight, Eight high)
sryJack: shows [As Ah] (A Pair of Aces, Queen high)
Doisneau collects $133.50 from Main pot

SUMMARY

Total pot $136.50 Main pot $133.50 Rake $3
Board [8h 4s 6h 5c Qd]
Seat 2: Doisneau showed [7d 8d] and won ($133.50) with A Straight, Eight high
Seat 3: pedropedr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: saomo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: chingy213 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TommyLee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Brantley folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: MOOSEHEAD (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: gamma747 (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: sryJack (big blind) showed [As Ah] and lost

and then...

HOLE CARDS

dealt to Doisneau [Qd Kd]
saomo: folds
chingy213: folds
TommyLee: folds
Brantley: folds
MOOSEHEAD: folds
gamma747: calls $2
sryJack: calls $2
Doisneau: raises to $8
pedropedr: folds
gamma747: calls $6
sryJack: calls $6

FLOP

[Ad Th 6d]
Doisneau: bets $24
gamma747: folds
sryJack: raises to $240.75 and is all-in
Doisneau: is all-in $93.50
Returned uncalled bets $123.25 to sryJack

TURN

[Ad Th 6d][9h]

RIVER

[Ad Th 6d 9h][Js]

SHOW DOWN

sryJack: shows [Tc Ac] (Two Pairs, Aces and Tens, Jack high)
Doisneau: shows [Qd Kd] (A Straight, Ace high)
Doisneau collects $258 from Main pot

SUMMARY

Total pot $261 Main pot $258 Rake $3
Board [Ad Th 6d 9h Js]
Seat 2: Doisneau (small blind) showed [Qd Kd] and won ($258) with A Straight, Ace high
Seat 3: pedropedr (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: saomo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: chingy213 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TommyLee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Brantley folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: MOOSEHEAD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: gamma747 folded on the Flop
Seat 10: sryJack (button) showed [Tc Ac] and lost
****HAND ENDS****

Sorry for posting HH...s

Bit self indulgent I know...but I'm buzzing!

Benglian · 21-03-2006 7:41pm

FastMachine wrote:

Ultra aggressive = ultra variance. I'm not a big fan of variance so this style isn't for me. I tried it a few times about 8 months ago when I was playing lower stakes and had the same kind of results as yourself, make alot of money really quickly, and loose it just as quickly. It was great fun though! The thing about this style is it's easy for a good player to beat if you just pick your spots and let the ultra aggressive player, commonly known as the 'maniac', bluff off his stack.
Good luck with it though and let us know how you get on with it.

The tricky thing is when to slow down...ultra agressive does not always mean 'maniac' and once you show down a few 'maniac' hands then you slow down and play solidly.....and get paid like that.
I know people will try to slow play me....so I back off mighty quickly when i get called when I am holding nothing...

Hectorjelly · 21-03-2006 7:47pm

If you play an ultra lag style then you need to buy in for the max. Very loose preflop play can only ever work with deep stacks, in fact 100bbs is too little. Think about the 1st hand you posted, you managed to get to the flop with 45s against QQ with 20 blinds behind. You probably get him to fold about 1/10 of the time. 1/10 of the time you get lucky and stack him. 8/10 of the time you get all in and his hand holds up. Buying in short and playing crazy will be fun but you will never win in even the medium term.

Benglian · 21-03-2006 7:56pm

You are right of course Hector...I can't ignore advice from someone like you. Back to reality. I will have to play 10k hands and then get back to you. Everything else from me is just talk...

ChipLdr · 21-03-2006 8:31pm

I definitely would not rely too much on your current form after hitting a 4 outer with KQ to bust 2 pair and hitting a str8 with 78 vs QQ.Your aggressiveness did not win these hands as you were behind each time the money went in.What won these hands was nothing but luck and if you continue to play this way i think you'll be back on the PL tables in no time.

Sorry to sound blunt but in both of these hands you were caught out but got lucky and that is a road to bankroll destruction in the long term.i'd love to have you at my table as it would be profitable for a semi tight player to make a big score against you.

Good luck though as it is a lot more fun if you can handle the swings.

Rnger · 21-03-2006 9:10pm

ChipLdr wrote:

...hitting a 4 outer with KQ to bust 2 pair...

I was about to comment on the madness of calling your whole stack off on middle pin straight draw but then i realised he has the nut flush draw aswel

Gholimoli · 21-03-2006 11:46pm

not that i knwo anyting about cash games but if the aim is to make money then i doubt this way will make money in the long run.
HJ and machine have already stated that this will have high variance but i doubt you will even break even playing this way.
HJ made an extreamly good point about the stacks having to be deep for this to have a chance of working.
playing is this style you will be counting on FE great amount of times.
your trying to put pressure on them to fold and you can only do that with a deep stack.no body is gonna fold top pair or the likes for 5BB bet.ans suppose you do get a big stack and your deep but this is not enough on its own because then you will have the short stacks on your table which are to shallow to fold good hands to ur bets.so the whole table needs to be deep stacked.then you would require great post flop skills to be able to read players and when they have missed the flop etc.if your playing good players then they will not be that readable .if your playing bad players ,they are not going to fold much.so your basically realying on out drawing them .this cant make money IMO in the long run.

MrPillowTalk · 22-03-2006 12:44am

The only player I have experience of who Ive seen have success playng this way is Capit on crypto, he is pretty legendary at this style. Allthough I have seen him turn £100 into £1k a good few times I think myself the best way to make profit si to buy for the max and play TAG.

Also it is a very easy style to play against once you figure out whats goin on.

PFR over 20% now thats some aggro play lol! well done

Ultra Agressive Play

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