Press Complaints

dahamsta

I've seen the phrase "Press Complaints Commission" bandied about, but Google turns one up for Britain, not Ireland. Is there an Irish equivalent?

Dub13

Maybe you are looking for the Broadcasting Complaints Commission

mike65

Adam the reason you can't find anything is cos it does'nt exist yet

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2005/1025/1646387379HM1LAWLOR.html

Mike.

Dub13

Moved from Consumer Issues.

dahamsta

This is specifically about a newspaper, I imagine the BCI would bounce it. In the absence of a press complaints commission - thanks Mike - is there anyone to complain to at all?

Karoma

What is your complaint?
I'd imagine if what was published was libellous or obscene, then you could take contact a solicitor. Otherwise, class it under free speech and bitch to the publisher. (?)

I'd say that the Broadcasting Complaints Commission would bounce it too.

flogen

If you have a complaint about a newspaper you can only really go to them with it at present; as Karoma says if it is something libellous or obscene then you may need to contact a solicitor.

A Press Council is part of the upcoming defamation bill but its details have yet to be ironed out; newspapers will basically be given slightly better libel laws if they agree to a mandatory one, I'm not sure who is for it and who is against it at present.

monument

Any chance of telling us at least the nature of the complaint?

damien

There'll be one soon according to Herr Flick.

dahamsta

The complaint is a tricky one regarding unattributed comments on a website I operate: The "journalists" at the Star are quoting Foot.ie members without attribution or permission, and although I realise there's very little legal recourse, I'd like to get it on record with an eye to the future.

flogen

Apparently the issue of the Press council is its members, McDowell would like to appoint them all, and naturally this is an issue for the press, but if they're allowed appoint them all, how is that any better?

lostexpectation

i think we should start of what did the star rip off today without even any credit thread, we'd be happy to help foot.ie are you could try to give the story to a rival tabloid paper columnist just to annoy them

Victor

Ken Shabby wrote:

The complaint is a tricky one regarding unattributed comments on a website I operate: The "journalists" at the Star are quoting Foot.ie members without attribution or permission, and although I realise there's very little legal recourse, I'd like to get it on record with an eye to the future.

I would investigate for plagarism and copyright breach.

dahamsta

The problem is that, like most forums, I've specifically waived any rights to forum posts in order to limit the possibility of one of those muppets that threaten me twice a month actually suing me. So posts are the responsibility of the author, and posters aren't exactly jumping to sue the Star.

If there was a Press Complaints Commission, at least I could create an automated complaints procedure, whereby they pick the forum post that was plagiarised, enter the date it was plagiarised in the Star, and send it off automatically.

Errah, I'll start off by filing a complaint with the Star directly on behalf of my users - I'll ask a few of them to co-sign it - and we'll see where we go from there.

Talentless hacks the lot of them. Not a skilled journalist in the building.

adam

lostexpectation

goddamnit is there really no-one to complain to about newspapers, perhaps the nuj?

ODS

What abou getting onto Seamus Dooley in the NUJ - put it to him that his mnembers are bringing the profession into disrepute;)

lostexpectation

yeah yeah, as I've found out the Journalist unions have no interest in raising standards of workers merely protecting them

chekov

lostexpectation wrote:

yeah yeah, as I've found out the Journalist unions have no interest in raising standards of workers merely protecting them

That's what a union is for after all. If they were to enforce a serious ethical code among journos, they'd be left with about 2 members. Nicking quotes from forums without attribution (or attributing them to a single, coherent group) is very low level in terms of the abuses you get in the press. It's slightly less objectionable than simply making up the quotes, which is also unbelievably common.

The fault really lies with the publishers who:
a) don't give two fiddles about ethics as long as it's not actionable
b) provide no meaningful way for people to complain or respond to objectionable content. As far as they're concerned, giving people space to respond simply undermines the credibility of the publication and is thus counter-productive.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the press council either:
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?aid=2110&iid=107&sud=38

The only real recourse is to piss and moan about it as loud as you can, wherever you can, thereby helping to damage their reputation and simply annoying them. If you moan loud enough, they'll eventually stop doing it.

dahamsta

Is there demand for a dedicated site/forum/wiki/blog/blah on the topic do you think? I'm all for doing this kind of thing, but experience tells me that demand is needed, and even with a demand users can be picky.

adam

lostexpectation

chekov wrote:

That's what a union is for after all. If they were to enforce a serious ethical code among journos, they'd be left with about 2 members. Nicking quotes from forums without attribution (or attributing them to a single, coherent group) is very low level in terms of the abuses you get in the press. It's slightly less objectionable than simply making up the quotes, which is also unbelievably common.

Surely there is something to akin to 'working standards', like in industry union you might have health and safety rules, people constantly go on about how unions either hold back or get forced to change work practices in some manner, would these ever improve the quality if their 'work'.

chekov

lostexpectation wrote:

Surely there is something to akin to 'working standards', like in industry union you might have health and safety rules, people constantly go on about how unions either hold back or get forced to change work practices in some manner, would these ever improve the quality if their 'work'.

The NUJ do have a code of conduct [1] and some guidelines in other areas, but interpretations of it have, by necessity, become so abstract as to be almost meaningless. AFAIK, only NUJ members can take complaints against other members for breaches of the code though and only in very limited circumstances.

In common with a lot of other unions, the NUJ has become de-politicised to such an extent that it is becoming closer to an old fashioned guild than a union. That's not the fault of the officials though, Seamus Dooley strikes me as a very genuine individual and many of the union officials are too, it's simply symptomatic of a trend in society where people see themselves as consumers and the union as a service provider, rather than seeing themselves as active members who shape policy and so on. For what it's worth, the NUJ do issue press releases advocating all sorts of good reforms to the media (less libel laws, more right to reply, more ethics) but they're just completely ignored.

By the way, if the NUJ did try to enforce a code of conduct, virtually every commentator in the papers would denounce it as "stalinist crushing of free speech by the pc thought police, etc, etc". The recently published guidelines on racism and refugees[2] states that the phrase 'bogus asylum seeker' is racist and hence can be the basis of complaints. Some very well known commentators despise this position despite the fact that it's simply a matter of fact.

[1] http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=59
[2] http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/press06/media-leaflet.pdf

lostexpectation

are there any other groupings of journalists? across newspapers

monument

Ken Shabby wrote:

Errah, I'll start off by filing a complaint with the Star directly on behalf of my users - I'll ask a few of them to co-sign it - and we'll see where we go from there.

Did you get any reply? (Edit: Hmm… I’m just after noticing the ‘banned’ under the user’s name)

totty

here's a link to a press complaints site that you might find useful

http://presscomplaints.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=general